Arrogance or Contending for the Truth?

[OldRegular]

The following was posted earlier {post #60} in response to DHK's assertion that all the Covenants were with Israel. I am sure it is an oversight that he has not responded so I present it again. His assertion that all the Covenants were with Israel is not a trivial claim and must be refuted!

Originally Posted by DHK
It is abundantly clear that the covenants are given to Israel. You don't believe the Scripture when it says that. You claim Israel's promises for yourself. Very presumptuous isn't it? This is not rightly dividing the word of truth.

Response by OldRegular

That is not only false but ridiculously false. Israel did not exist when the first three covenants were given, four if you include a Covenant of Works with Adam.

************************************************** **********

The first Covenant, the initial revelation in time of the Covenant of Grace, was instituted with all mankind and recorded in Genesis 3:15: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

*******************************************************

The second Covenant was instituted with all mankind and recorded in Genesis 9:12-17
12. And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13. I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15. And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

********************************************************

The third Covenant was with Abraham and, properly understood, instituted with all mankind, especially the Elect and is recorded in Genesis 12:1-3
1. Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2. And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3. And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

This Covenant was confirmed and amplified in Genesis 22:17, 18
17. That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18. And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

God through the Apostle Paul explains this Covenant further in Galatians:

Galatians 3:16. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:29. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

**********************************************

The initial Covenant with Israel was in Exodus 19:5-8. Following that there was a second in Deuteronomy 29:10-15.

***************************************************

The next Covenant was not with Israel but with David and was really a further amplification of the Covenant with Abraham and was revealed in 2 Samuel 7:4ff. In this covenant we can understand that God's purpose for Israel, through Judah, then David, and finally through the Virgin Mary was to bring the Savior, Jesus Christ, into the world. This Savior, Jesus Christ, would institute the New Covenant {Jeremiah #1:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-12} with the "true believers" through His sacrificial death on the cross.

********************************************************

Really DHK you need to take a look at Scripture before you "fly off the handle" and post nonsense!

*****************************************************************************************************

 

[OldRegular]

Post away OR. You don't pay much attention do you?
First, I haven't been posting about pre-trib, have I? My position here has been pre-mil, and only pre-mil, so why are you going off on some rant that is not relevant here?
Secondly, your posting of this creed is irrelevant. With your kinship to the Calvinists you are more in line with the Westminster Confession, which I posted already for you. Your alignment with this confession is shameful. These were the people that persecuted the Baptists, that put them to death. You hold their hands now. Don't lecture me about history. Look at your own fingers that point back at you.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2192013&postcount=52

That is a pathetic accusation DHK. The mark of defeat. You previously claimed that all Covenants were with Israel. I showed you how foolish that comment was and you have an itch you can't scratch!

I am not aligned in any way with the Westminster Confession but I prefer it over Darby's cobbled up pre-trib-dispensationalism 24/7!

Originally Posted by DHK
Read Baptist history. Read how the Baptists who went before us died for the beliefs that we hold today, and were so repudiated in the above confession.

You were referring to departure from Baptist History. I simply show you that Rapture Ready Baptists are the fruit of John Nelson Darby.

 

[DHK]

That is a pathetic accusation DHK. The mark of defeat. You previously claimed that all Covenants were with Israel. I showed you how foolish that comment was and you have an itch you can't scratch!

I am not aligned in any way with the Westminster Confession but I prefer it over Darby's cobbled up pre-trib-dispensationalism 24/7!

You were referring to departure from Baptist History. I simply show you that Rapture Ready Baptists are the fruit of John Nelson Darby.

You are barking up the wrong tree. I haven't mentioned the Tribulation, the Rapture, "pre-trib" position, Darby, etc. You are showing your hatred of a doctrine that no one is talking about. You have all this hatred so pent up within yourself that you feel you have to spew it all over the board even though no one is talking about it. Pitiful!
I have only been discussing the "Premillennial Position," and that is all.
Are you having trouble focusing?

Secondly you can "show me" whatever you want. I will demonstrate the truth to you through Scripture:
Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
--The covenants were given to Israel as Paul states right here.
The scripture is clear.

 

[DHK]

You should read Baptist History. There were no Rapture Ready Baptists until Darby came along!

Are you posting all of this just to convince yourself? Pity!
I keep telling you that I haven't mentioned a pre-trib position in this thread. You are off topic and just taking up space by your needless and meaningless posting. I have only mentioned the Pre-mill position in this thread. Just think; all that work for naught!

 

[OldRegular]

Are you posting all of this just to convince yourself? Pity!
I keep telling you that I haven't mentioned a pre-trib position in this thread. You are off topic and just taking up space by your needless and meaningless posting. I have only mentioned the Pre-mill position in this thread. Just think; all that work for naught!

The topic is "Arrogance or Contending for the Truth?"

I am "Contending for the Truth!" You post a false assertion that all the Covenants were with Israel. I show from Scripture that your assertion is false. That is "Contending for the Truth!" Yet you continue to ignore the truth!

You also made the following false assertion:

Then set your heart on a Bible College or Seminary, not a local church. As a pastor I would not poison my people's minds with amillenialism or postmillennialism. What they need is the truth of God's Word.
Besides that, I expound the Scripture. I go through it book by book, passage by passage, verse by verse. You will never find amillennialism or postmillennialism with the simple exposition of the Bible. It is a man-made concoction.

I reject that assertion and claim that Darby's pre-trib-dispensationalism is a man-made concoction. I am simply "Contending for the Truth!" You then make the following Assertion:

Read Baptist history. Read how the Baptists who went before us died for the beliefs that we hold today, and were so repudiated in the above confession.

I show from historical Baptist Confessions that Baptist's believed in a general resurrection and judgment contrary to what you teach, contrary to what pre-trib-dispensationalism teaches. Baptists did not die for the pre-trib-dispensationalism concocted by John Nelson Darby. I am simply "Contending for the Truth!" That is what this thread is all about.

 

[OldRegular]

Secondly you can "show me" whatever you want. I will demonstrate the truth to you through Scripture:
Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
--The covenants were given to Israel as Paul states right here.
The scripture is clear.

I showed you from Scripture that only two covenants were specifically given to Israel. The first was the giving of the Law, both had to do with conditional promises. If you want to deny Scripture that is your problem, one that you routinely practice. However, I am "Contending for the Truth!"

You posted the following:

Originally Posted by DHK post #57
It is abundantly clear that the covenants are given to Israel. You don't believe the Scripture when it says that. You claim Israel's promises for yourself. Very presumptuous isn't it? This is not rightly dividing the word of truth.

It is not abundantly clear as I show once again from Scripture {Post #60}!

That is not only false but ridiculously false. Israel did not exist when the first three covenants were given, four if you include a Covenant of Works with Adam.

************************************************************

The first Covenant, the initial revelation in time of the Covenant of Grace, was instituted with all mankind and recorded in Genesis 3:15: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

*******************************************************

The second Covenant was instituted with all mankind and recorded in Genesis 9:12-17
12. And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13. I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15. And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

********************************************************

The third Covenant was with Abraham and, properly understood, instituted with all mankind, especially the Elect and is recorded in Genesis 12:1-3
1. Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2. And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3. And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

This Covenant was confirmed and amplified in Genesis 22:17, 18
17. That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18. And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

God through the Apostle Paul explains this Covenant further in Galatians:

Galatians 3:16. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:29. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

**********************************************

The initial Covenant with Israel was in Exodus 19:5-8. Following that there was a second in Deuteronomy 29:10-15.

***************************************************

The next Covenant was not with Israel but with David and was really a further amplification of the Covenant with Abraham and was revealed in 2 Samuel 7:4ff. In this covenant we can understand that God's purpose for Israel, through Judah, then David, and finally through the Virgin Mary was to bring the Savior, Jesus Christ, into the world. This Savior, Jesus Christ, would institute the New Covenant {Jeremiah #1:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-12} with the "true believers" through His sacrificial death on the cross.

********************************************************

Really DHK you need to take a look at Scripture before you "fly off the handle" and post nonsense!

*****************************************************************************************************

So you see DHK that I am "Contending for the Truth!" That is what this thread is about. It is also about "Arrogance" which you display in rejecting the Word of God presented above.

*************************************************************

 

[DHK]

So you see DHK that I am "Contending for the Truth!" That is what this thread is about. It is also about "Arrogance" which you display in rejecting the Word of God presented above.

What you have demonstrated is that you don't have a clue what the OP is about:
OP:

There is a fine line sometimes between an arrogant or belligerent attitude and taking a strong stand in contending for the truth. Often times we can misinterpret the words of another as arrogance, when in reality they are nothing more than strong debate. I heard someone once say that theological debate is not for the thin-skinned or those easily offended. I will accept that as an axiom.

 

[OldRegular]

What you have demonstrated is that you don't have a clue what the OP is about:
OP:

I said you were arrogant and you are. From the OP it is easily seen that you fit the definition of Arrogant from Webster's Dictionary and the remarks by Reformed:

Webster's Dictionary defines arrogance as, "an insulting way of thinking or behaving that comes from believing that you are better, smarter, or more important than other people". If we use Webster's as an accurate definition of arrogance, then we really need to examine whether a direct post fits that definition.

//snip//

Now, if one party truly does believe they are better, smarter, or more important than the other person, arrogance is being displayed.

You certainly are not "contending for the truth" because I showed from the Word of God that your statement that all the Covenants were with Israel was false. At least three of the Covenants were instituted before Israel existed. Of course you would argue that the Word of God is meaningless unless someone gives it meaning.

From post #88 the General Baptist Discussions; Divine Illumination/ Divine Enablement Thread:

Originally Posted by DHK post #88
The scripture remains meaningless until someone gives it meaning.

On the same thread as the above quote you said:

Originally Posted by DHK post #101
I don't brag, I teach.

 

[DHK]

I said you were arrogant and you are. From the OP it is easily seen that you fit the definition of Arrogant from Webster's Dictionary and the remarks by Reformed:

You are entitled to your opinion. Everyone is.

You certainly are not "contending for the truth" because I showed from the Word of God that your statement that all the Covenants were with Israel was false. At least three of the Covenants were instituted before Israel existed. Of course you would argue that the Word of God is meaningless unless someone gives it meaning.

First, I simply quoted the Bible. Your argument is with God, not me:

Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
--The covenants were given to Israel as Paul states right here.
The scripture is clear.

Second, this thread is not about "contending for the truth," though it has those words in the title. It is about attitude. Thus the doctrine you post and defend is irrelevant to the OP.

From post #88 the General Baptist Discussions; Divine Illumination/ Divine Enablement Thread:

On the same thread as the above quote you said:

That thread has nothing to do with this one.

 

[OldRegular]

You are entitled to your opinion. Everyone is.

First, I simply quoted the Bible. Your argument is with God, not me:



Second, this thread is not about "contending for the truth," though it has those words in the title. It is about attitude. Thus the doctrine you post and defend is irrelevant to the OP.

That thread has nothing to do with this one.

Pathetic DHK! You stated the following in your post #57:

It is abundantly clear that the covenants are given to Israel. You don't believe the Scripture when it says that. You claim Israel's promises for yourself. Very presumptuous isn't it? This is not rightly dividing the word of truth.

I showed you from the Word of God that at least three Covenants were instituted before Israel existed.

That is not only false but ridiculously false. Israel did not exist when the first three covenants were given, four if you include a Covenant of Works with Adam.

************************************************************

The first Covenant, the initial revelation in time of the Covenant of Grace, was instituted with all mankind and recorded in Genesis 3:15: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

*******************************************************

The second Covenant was instituted with all mankind and recorded in Genesis 9:12-17
12. And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13. I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15. And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

********************************************************

The third Covenant was with Abraham and, properly understood, instituted with all mankind, especially the Elect and is recorded in Genesis 12:1-3
1. Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2. And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3. And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

This Covenant was confirmed and amplified in Genesis 22:17, 18
17. That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18. And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

God through the Apostle Paul explains this Covenant further in Galatians:

Galatians 3:16. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:29. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

**********************************************

The initial Covenant with Israel was in Exodus 19:5-8. Following that there was a second in Deuteronomy 29:10-15.

***************************************************

The next Covenant was not with Israel but with David and was really a further amplification of the Covenant with Abraham and was revealed in 2 Samuel 7:4ff. In this covenant we can understand that God's purpose for Israel, through Judah, then David, and finally through the Virgin Mary was to bring the Savior, Jesus Christ, into the world. This Savior, Jesus Christ, would institute the New Covenant {Jeremiah #1:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-12} with the "true believers" through His sacrificial death on the cross.

********************************************************

Really DHK you need to take a look at Scripture before you "fly off the handle" and post nonsense!

*****************************************************************************************************

You come back with the following:

Originally Posted by DHK View Post
Secondly you can "show me" whatever you want. I will demonstrate the truth to you through Scripture:
Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
--The covenants were given to Israel as Paul states right here.
The scripture is clear.

And the Scripture I posted from the Word of God shows that two of the six Covenants I mentioned were with Israel. But that was not sufficient for you. You still deny that your original statement is False but it is and the Word of God proves that it is false. You read your own interpretation into the passage from Romans in an attempt to support your pre-trib-dispensationalism.

It is abundantly clear that the covenants are given to Israel. You don't believe the Scripture when it says that. You claim Israel's promises for yourself. Very presumptuous isn't it? This is not rightly dividing the word of truth.

Darby and Scofield did not "rightly divide the "Word of Truth" they Splintered the Word of truth to concoct the false doctrine of pre-trib-dispensationalism, making the Word of God of "none effect"! {Galatians 3:17}

 

[DHK]

Pathetic DHK! You stated the following in your post #57:

I showed you from the Word of God that at least three Covenants were instituted before Israel existed.

I am not arguing with you about your Covenant Theology. I have given you Scripture and I leave it there. You can't explain it. That is your problem, not mine.

You come back with the following:

And the Scripture I posted from the Word of God shows that two of the six Covenants I mentioned were with Israel. But that was not sufficient for you. You still deny that your original statement is False but it is and the Word of God proves that it is false. You read your own interpretation into the passage from Romans in an attempt to support your pre-trib-dispensationalism.

Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
--The Scripture doesn't change regardless of your opinions and accusations.

Darby and Scofield did not "rightly divide the "Word of Truth" they Splintered the Word of truth to concoct the false doctrine of pre-trib-dispensationalism, making the Word of God of "none effect"! {Galatians 3:17}

I have not mentioned the pre-trib position in this thread or in any thread for some time. So why are you harping on it? You are barking up the wrong tree.
I have only mentioned pre-millennialism which the ECF believed in, and that (historically) does away with your position. The Early Church Fathers did not believe in Amillennialism. They did not hold anywhere near to what you believe, which really puts your position in doubt.

The line of reasoning here is this. Since Darby and Scofield are recent the doctrine must be wrong. That is your reasoning. So let's go with your reasoning here. I'll even use some of your authorities.

Historically there have been three basic positions when it comes to the issue of the millennium and when it will occur in relation to Christ's return to planet earth. First, there is premillennialism, which is the oldest of the three and teaches that Jesus returns before He reigns for a thousand years on earth with His saints.

According to your logic premillennialism is the correct doctrine because it is the oldest, and Amillennialism is wrong.

The terms amillennialism, premillennialism, and postmillennialism did not become theological vocabulary until the late 1800s.
A spiritual first resurrection was taught by Augustine (A.D. 354–430), the father of amillennialism, in his book The City of God (20.9). This is significant because if the text refers to a literal resurrection (which it is), then this would be a strong support for premillennialism, which amillennialists of that era were reacting.

http://www.bibleprophecyblog.com/2014/11/what-is-amillennialism.html#
The article is by Thomas Ice, one of your favorites.
According to your logic; your reasoning; Premillennialism is right because it is oldest and both amil and post mil are simply reactionary man-made theologies to pre-mil, which is the actual truth.

Either way I have not mentioned pre-trib, so you need not mention it either.
It is clear, however, your position is wrong--using your method of determining right from wrong.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sure. IMHO it is inconsistent with Reformed theology, but there are plenty of dispensational Calvinists.

Just as many "classical reformed" would see the Baptist view on Baptism as not being in the scriptures....

Just as there are the "new calvinists", who would see Charasmatics as being part of the reformed flock!

 

[Yeshua1]

I am not arguing with you about your Covenant Theology. I have given you Scripture and I leave it there. You can't explain it. That is your problem, not mine.

Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
--The Scripture doesn't change regardless of your opinions and accusations.

I have not mentioned the pre-trib position in this thread or in any thread for some time. So why are you harping on it? You are barking up the wrong tree.
I have only mentioned pre-millennialism which the ECF believed in, and that (historically) does away with your position. The Early Church Fathers did not believe in Amillennialism. They did not hold anywhere near to what you believe, which really puts your position in doubt.

The line of reasoning here is this. Since Darby and Scofield are recent the doctrine must be wrong. That is your reasoning. So let's go with your reasoning here. I'll even use some of your authorities.

According to your logic premillennialism is the correct doctrine because it is the oldest, and Amillennialism is wrong.

http://www.bibleprophecyblog.com/2014/11/what-is-amillennialism.html#
The article is by Thomas Ice, one of your favorites.
According to your logic; your reasoning; Premillennialism is right because it is oldest and both amil and post mil are simply reactionary man-made theologies to pre-mil, which is the actual truth.

Either way I have not mentioned pre-trib, so you need not mention it either.
It is clear, however, your position is wrong--using your method of determining right from wrong.

Pre Mil was the de facto position of the ECF, as they received that from the Apostles themselves, and while they did not view it in a strict Dispy sense, they also were not holding to things such as A mil, nor preterists, as they indeed saw that God would bring his kingdom to earth when Jesus returned to rule over all the earth!

 

[OldRegular]

Pre Mil was the de facto position of the ECF, as they received that from the Apostles themselves, and while they did not view it in a strict Dispy sense, they also were not holding to things such as A mil, nor preterists, as they indeed saw that God would bring his kingdom to earth when Jesus returned to rule over all the earth!

I assume by ECF you mean Early Church Fathers. One truth is certain; they did not believe that the Church for which Jesus Christ died was a "parenthesis" an interruption in God's program for Israel. That is an invention of John Nelson Darby, popularized in this country by the Scofield Reference Bible.

**************************************************************************************************

 

[The American Dream]

Just as many "classical reformed" would see the Baptist view on Baptism as not being in the scriptures....

Just as there are the "new calvinists", who would see Charasmatics as being part of the reformed flock!

On the first one, not sure how one could see any other view from the Bible besides baptism after salvation by immersion that symbolizes the death, burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ in a newness of life. Sprinkling is a left over from the RCC. The covenant relationship, between parent and child, if it exists, does not save a child until it has the understanding of morality. Only Jesus Christ saves.

Charismatics and all the denominations they encompass are cults. They preach a works gospel. They put their faith in gifts of the Holy Spirit that have long ceased instead of Jesus Christ.

 

[Thousand Hills]

Charismatics and all the denominations they encompass are cults. They preach a works gospel. They put their faith in gifts of the Holy Spirit that have long ceased instead of Jesus Christ.

I agree with you, but since you are new here I'll warn you not to be surprised that there are a few of those type of folks hangin around here. They believe they have a private prayer language and can raise the dead.

 

[Yeshua1]

On the first one, not sure how one could see any other view from the Bible besides baptism after salvation by immersion that symbolizes the death, burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ in a newness of life. Sprinkling is a left over from the RCC. The covenant relationship, between parent and child, if it exists, does not save a child until it has the understanding of morality. Only Jesus Christ saves.

Charismatics and all the denominations they encompass are cults. They preach a works gospel. They put their faith in gifts of the Holy Spirit that have long ceased instead of Jesus Christ.

I was raised up in the Assemblies of God, and would tend to see there being seperate camps in that Movement though...

Some would be Holiness pentacostals, such as the AOG, who wjhile having an erronous view regarding the gifts of the Spirit operating today, they are still to be considered within real Christianity, but do hold to fridge distinctive doctrines...

Those in the Word of faith/health and wealth/5 fold ministries indeed are teaching another Gospel!

 

[OldRegular]

I am not arguing with you about your Covenant Theology. I have given you Scripture and I leave it there. You can't explain it. That is your problem, not mine.

The truth is DHK that you posted on this thread the following statement:

Originally Posted by DHK
It is abundantly clear that the covenants are given to Israel. You don't believe the Scripture when it says that. You claim Israel's promises for yourself. Very presumptuous isn't it? This is not rightly dividing the word of truth.

That statement is false and I have proven from The Word of God that the first three Covenants were instituted before Israel even existed.

You do have a problem DHK. I have proven that you are wrong but you are not man enough to admit it.

 

[DHK]

The truth is DHK that you posted on this thread the following statement:

That statement is false and I have proven from The Word of God that the first three Covenants were instituted before Israel even existed.

You do have a problem DHK. I have proven that you are wrong but you are not man enough to admit it.

I am not wrong. It is your theology vs. the inspired word of God as written through the Apostle Paul:

Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

I didn't say that. Paul did.
Take your argument up with Paul or with God who inspired him.
The covenants were given to Israel.

 

[convicted1]

I am not wrong. It is your theology vs. the inspired word of God as written through the Apostle Paul:

Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

I didn't say that. Paul did.
Take your argument up with Paul or with God who inspired him.
The covenants were given to Israel.

If the Israelites were given the Law in the wooden way you're stating it, then why are we commanded to keep it, too?