Asbury College - another revival?

[eloidalmanutha]

posted by Boanerges:
Same as azuza, same as Brownsville, a counterfit revival that will spawn another counterfit revival, etc.

I have to totally agree with this - toronto blessing is another one - if one does the research, there is a connection between them. All they have done is spark "revivals of feelings".

I have also noticed that these "revivals" have no lasting effect. Look at how Brownsville took a huge dive - I mention that one because I was part of it here where I live - they brought it to us [ugh]. It died here, too. If it were truly of God, then the effects would be seen and lives would continue to be changed dramatically. Pentecost came one time - basic message, changing lives by the Gospel of Christ - not by the "moves of God". "Pentecost repeats" do not exist - this is the major error of the "revival movement".

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Apparently some of the brethren never hear of or have experience a reviving of the soul. Here is a real opportunity for growth if you will allow Him to move in your life.

Amen!

 

[BobRyan]

Revial is "of God" as it turns out.

2Pet 1
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

12 Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you.
13 I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder,
14 knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

Peter defends the practice of "stirring you up by way of reminder" -- others seem to reject it.

Gal 5
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

You "were running well -- who hindered you"

In Rev 2 we see the problem of those who have "lost their first love".

This "stirring up by way of reminder" is a crucial remedy for the entropy the enertia of sin and backslidden complacency.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Is the "error" that people return to the zeal of serving and knowing God? OR is the "error" that the complacent doctrines of "calm compromise with the world" eventually creep back in to make many of those revived - "like the rest" once again?


While the students and the "passer's by" that came in and were revived -- where simply "living like the rest" indifferent to God - there was no complaints about Asbury.

That should tell you something.

 

[Humblesmith]

I praise God that some are praying and focusing on Him.

Let's all check back in 2 or 3 months......if the bars and sex businesses have shut down, then we'll know it was real.

Meanwhile, we should all pray for these people.

 

[BroTom64]

We tend to look at things like this through the lens of our on experiences. If what is reported about a "move of God" is different from our experiences we are usually wary of what is happening.

This cuts both ways.
Many baptists and main line denominations consider pentecostals at best emotional flakes and at worse demon worshiping heretics.
On the other hand many pentcostal/charismatics consider baptist and the mainline denominations to be at best the "frozen choosen" back-slidden, cold and joyless or worse lost and going through dead religious motions.

Sadly these judgment calls can be and sometimes are true.
If we are not careful we will judge our brother's and sister's relationships with the Lord by these extreme examples. We must remember it is not our place to make these types of judgements.

Wait and see if the things happening at Asbury leads those touched to exhibit the fruit of the Spirit and to reach others with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Also pray for them.

 

[hillclimber]

eloidalmanutha,

You've got it right on the money.

Our emotions are a virtual playground for evil forces.

 

[Mapipe]

RB Where do you get that Asbury is a Wesleyan school? They promoted themselves as interdenominational when I went there and now proudly call themselves multi-denominational. Yes, there was speaking in tongues and faith healing going on while I was there. They were also pushing for entire sanctification and directly asked each student if they had reached entire sanctification. This was one of the questions on the questionnaire that every student filled out with their advisor. So don't even begin to question that statement.

Please refrain from insinuating that I or anyone else on this forum is a liar. Makes you look really, really bad. Your comments at first made me angry, but then I realized that you were merely bloviating about that which you were not a witness to.

 

[Ray Berrian]

eloidalmanutha,

Your second post on page to is excellent! I agree that searching for feeling is not to be recommended. I always tell people to stay in the Word and have seasons of pray to the Lord.

Anything that leads Christians to stay in the Word and to learn of Him is great. Anything genuine that leads people to Jesus for salvation is a good thing in my way of thinking.

Christians should not be striving, if you will, for a spiritual high, but should rather reflect on what He says in His Word which will increase spiritual strength and increase service in His Name.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Bob Ryan,

Your post was excellent. Good points.

The only thing is you have done what many Christians have by saying that the Ephesian Church had 'lost' their first love.

What Scripture does say is that they 'left' their first love--meaning Jesus. The concept of leaving their first love, indicates that they could return to that earlier and higher state in grace.

They never lost their first love, but indeed they did leave it. There is some difference as to this meaning of 'left' their first love.

More often that we think Christians who at first had a great zeal for the Lord and witnessing to their faith, have long sense 'left' their first love which is Christ.

I think you will agree with me here. Again, a great post.

Anyway . . . regards,

Ray

 

[Ray Berrian]

Hillclimber,

You said, 'Our emotions are a virtual playground for evil forces.'

This is really an overkill. Do you want us all to be stoical Presbyterians with no spiritual emotion? Oh, and I am sure many Presbyterians are saved--and are the people of God.

A couple of things make up faith in Christ and perhaps more than these. The will and the emotions. . . A person can be saved without great pulsations of emotion, but somewhere in your Christian experience you will experience emotion toward Him and from Him because of all that Jesus has done for you. After all if He does not mean that much to us, we will not witness to the saving power of Jesus Christ.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Mapipe,

You said, 'RB Where do you get that Asbury is a Wesleyan school? They promoted themselves as interdenominational when I went there and now proudly call themselves multi-denominational. Yes, there was speaking in tongues and faith healing going on while I was there. They were also pushing for entire sanctification and directly asked each student if they had reached entire sanctification. This was one of the questions on the questionnaire that every student filled out with their advisor. So don't even begin to question that statement.'

I agree colleges and seminaries often speak of themselves as interdenominational so everyone will feel a sense of acceptance and ESPECIALLY because this is what brings in the tuition money.

The fact of their question as to entire sanctification should have caused you to realize they were from the Wesleyan Arminian branch of the Christian church as is the Church of the Nazarene.

If students believed and tried to get a church in an independent church or a Baptist church, they surely would run into trouble if they said they believed in entire sanctification and perfect love, as Wesleyans teach.

I trust you that 'speaking in tongues' was accepted during your tour of said college. But, in the 1960's this was forbidden and we were not allowed to attend Sunday morning worship at an Assembly of God church or a charismatic, independent church. Even evening worship in those church was frowned against. Times change . . .

.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Hillclimber,

You said, 'Our emotions are a virtual playground for evil forces.'

This is really an overkill. Do you want us all to be stoical Presbyterians with no spiritual emotion? Oh, and I am sure many Presbyterians are saved--and are the people of God.

A couple of things make up faith in Christ and perhaps more than these. The will and the emotions. . . A person can be saved without great pulsations of emotion, but somewhere in your Christian experience you will experience emotion toward Him and from Him because of all that Jesus has done for you. After all if He does not mean that much to us, we will not witness to the saving power of Jesus Christ.

Ray,

Let me state this as simply as I can:

* faith in God does not equal feelings

* feelings are a God-given emotion to express the heart of man - but are not necessarily an expression of faith. anyone can shout praise to God - look at Judas.

* joy of the Lord is not limited to or exclusively an outward expression

* joy and peace are a state of being in God

* church is not the "end-all" or even the beginning of worship, praise, study of the Word or any other expression of salvation in Christ

* some people use church as an expression of "faith" using emotionalism as it's calling card in the form of praise and worship

* certain denominations/churches appear dead because they are. they will not go away. this is not God's fault. Get out of them and find a group of people who understand what it means to serve the Lord with joy and gladness and will encourage each other to go out and love the lost with hands on.

* Paul and Silas worshipped in prison, in stocks, in pain after being beaten. Worship is a state of the heart.

* My maternal grandfather belonged to a dead church. he never once showed emotion for God. But what a man "of faith" he was. His eyes sparkled - he was a man of joy. He loved the Lord so much. But never did I see him raise his hands to worship, never did I hear him shout "Halleluyah" or "Praise the Lord". He lived a life that exuded the joy of Jesus and everyone knew; by the example of his life, by the words that he spoke, that he was a man of God.

 

[Ray Berrian]

'. . . anyone can shout praise to God - look at Judas.'

We will love to hear where Judas shouted praises to God. Judas must have been a Pentecostal who was never saved.

I got a lot out of your post and agree with 99% of it. I preached Christ and taught people to seek Him in the Word. Inner blessings are the by-product of our faith in the Lord.

I too, had two wonderful grandfather in the faith. I agree with you.

.

 

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:


Let me state this as simply as I can:

* faith in God does not equal feelings

* feelings are a God-given emotion to express the heart of man - but are not necessarily an expression of faith. anyone can shout praise to God - look at Judas.

* joy of the Lord is not limited to or exclusively an outward expression

* joy and peace are a state of being in God

* church is not the "end-all" or even the beginning of worship, praise, study of the Word or any other expression of salvation in Christ

* some people use church as an expression of "faith" using emotionalism as it's calling card in the form of praise and worship

* certain denominations/churches appear dead because they are. they will not go away. this is not God's fault. Get out of them and find a group of people who understand what it means to serve the Lord with joy and gladness and will encourage each other to go out and love the lost with hands on.

* Paul and Silas worshipped in prison, in stocks, in pain after being beaten. Worship is a state of the heart.

* My maternal grandfather belonged to a dead church. he never once showed emotion for God. But what a man "of faith" he was. His eyes sparkled - he was a man of joy. He loved the Lord so much. But never did I see him raise his hands to worship, never did I hear him shout "Halleluyah" or "Praise the Lord". He lived a life that exuded the joy of Jesus and everyone knew; by the example of his life, by the words that he spoke, that he was a man of God.

Terrific post. A man after the Lords heart...your G-pa...I know old men like this and I love them.

 

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Hillclimber,

You said, 'Our emotions are a virtual playground for evil forces.'

This is really an overkill. Do you want us all to be stoical Presbyterians with no spiritual emotion? Oh, and I am sure many Presbyterians are saved--and are the people of God.

A couple of things make up faith in Christ and perhaps more than these. The will and the emotions. . . A person can be saved without great pulsations of emotion, but somewhere in your Christian experience you will experience emotion toward Him and from Him because of all that Jesus has done for you. After all if He does not mean that much to us, we will not witness to the saving power of Jesus Christ.

This phenominon is seen clearly in the penticostal churches, where emotions are brought to a fevorish pace weekly or more often. These churches experience far more drop outs than non pentecostal churches. Our town has actually opened it's eyes to that very problem. The emotions cannot be maintained at such a pace forever. Our little church has many families in it that were there in the 60's, and almost no one lasted fmore than a few short years in our Penta-churches. There are few practicing members in the Penta's here that have been there more than 4 years or so.

 

[Jim1999]

I have seen unemotional people at a graveside. They were very stoic and faced the reality of a loved one passing on. How brave they were.

Then, I visited them three weeks after the funeral, in the privacy of their own home. I determined early on that that is how long it takes for the reality of death to strike home.

They could not hold back the tears. There is no shame in emotions. Jesus wept, as did all the apostles by times,,as did the Old Testament patriarchs...and so do I.

Emotion is an integral part of the makeup of human kind, and it shows up in our spiritual life as well.

During the great Welsh revivals at the turn of the last century it is well recorded what happened. In one account, the preacher stepped into the pulpit, but could not speak. Tears flowed down his cheeks and he sat down. Instantly people began to confess sin, one to another. Eventually they all broke out in song. Yes, emotion played a vital role in that revival and spread all over Wales.

I am a stiff-upper-lip Englishman, but I too have experienced bouts of great emotion in my religious life, especially in times of prayer.

If this is a true revival in the school, God bless them. If it is not, God bless them. At least they are thinking in the right direction and no harm can come from it. Much better than the rigid religious stiffness demonstrated by some as if Christ demanded that we be stiff lipped and legalistic all our life IF we are to be Christians.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Ray wrote:

We will love to hear where Judas shouted praises to God. Judas must have been a Pentecostal who was never saved.


eloidalmanutha:
"palm sunday"

 

[Ray Berrian]

Show us where Judas preached, healed, taught or praised God on Palm Sunday. We need a book, chapter and verse.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Show us where Judas preached, healed, taught or praised God on Palm Sunday. We need a book, chapter and verse.

Did not say he preached, healed or taught on palm sunday. I said he shouted praise to God - "Hosanna in the Highest" along with all the disciples and other people on what we call "palm sunday"

Mark 11:7 And they led the colt to Jesus. And they threw their garments on it, and He sat on it.
8 And many spread their garments on the highway, and others were cutting branches from the trees and were spreading them on the highway.
9 And those going before, and those following after, were crying out, saying, Hosanna! "Blessed is the One coming in the name of the Lord!" Psa. 118:26
10 Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!
11 And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple. And having looked around at all things, the hour already being late, He went out to Bethany with the Twelve.

Luke 19:35 And they led it to Jesus. And throwing their garments on the colt, they put Jesus on it.
36 And as He went, they were spreading their garments in the highway.
37 And as He was already drawing near to the descent of the Mount of Olives, all the multitude of the disciples began rejoicing, to praise God with a loud voice concerning all the works of power which they saw,
38 saying, "Blessed is the One coming in the name of the Lord," the King. Peace in Heaven, and glory in the highest! Psa. 118:26
39 And some of the Pharisees from the crowd said to Him, Teacher, rebuke your disciples.
40 And answering, He said to them, I say to you, If these should be silent, the stones will cry out.

John 12:12 ¶ On the morrow, coming to the Feast, hearing that Jesus is coming to Jerusalem, a great crowd
13 took palm branches and went out to a meeting with Him, and they were crying out, Hosanna! "Being blessed is the One coming in the name of the Lord, the King of Israel!" Psa. 118:26
14 And finding an ass colt, Jesus sat on it, even as it had been written,
15 "Do not fear," "daughter of Zion. Behold, your King comes" "sitting on" "the foal of an ass." Isa. 40:9; Zech. 9:9
16 But His disciples did not know these things at the first, but when Jesus was glorified, then they recalled that these things had been written on Him, and that they did these things to Him.


ps: Judas did heal and cast out demons as a disciple - do you need Scripts for that too?