Ashes & What Happens in Hell

[37818]

The Hebrew נֶפֶשׁ, like the Greek, ψυχή, also means, "a person, a living being". And, there is physical and spititual and eternal "death", taught in the Bible.

Does not change Ezekiel 18:4, James 5:20 or Matthew 10:28.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Any denial of conscious eternal torment is a first step of doctrinal apostasy.

Not at all.

I came to the position on my own after being struck by the plain statement, repeated several times in Revelation, "This is the second death." That's when I began to watch what the Bible said about the fate of the wicked as I studied many other things over the next decade. There are only a few passages that truly lend themselves to an eternal conscious torment interpretation, and a massive number that point to conditional immortality. I was kind of worried about my growing convictions as to what the Bible taught until I had a conversation with Dr. E. Earle Ellis at church one afternoon, and he happened to mention something that sounded like he believed in the destruction of the wicked. I asked him specifically about it, and he confirmed he did. He also explained that it is a common minority view in Christendom (in the present age), but it was more popular in the 19th century and in the early church. It was when Platonism, with the presupposition of the eternal soul, was assumed by Christian converts, that eternal conscious torment gained acceptance.

 

[37818]

This is CLEARLY not torment, much less eternal conscious torment.

It seems that you do not understand. Isaiah 66:24a, Malachi 4:3, Revelation 20:9, Revelation 20:11-15, Mark 9:48, Isaiah 66:24b. Christ on the cross Psalms 22:6, Isaiah 53:6-12, finished it on the cross John 19:28, Romans 5:8 before He physically died, John 19:30.

 

[37818]

@Mark Corbett,
If you have not already done so please see my Post#6.

It is not commonly understood because of the common false teaching for the immortality of the soul. The soul is mortal for the lost who will suffer for all eternity. The evidence is Jesus had His mortal soul die on the cross, Isaiah 53:10 and Isaiah 53:12. And He was fully conscious while His soul was dead. After He finished the atonement, John 19:28, then His soul being again alive He physically dies for His resurrection, John 19:30.

 

[37818]

I have long held both the mortality of the soul and their eternal suffering. That the death of Christ in His soul on the cross before He physically died is an evidence for the eternal suffering of the lost. Psalms 22:6, Mark 9:48.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Does not change Ezekiel 18:4, James 5:20 or Matthew 10:28.

Maybe for you and the others who share your theology

 

[37818]

Maybe for you and the others who share your theology

Belief in the mortality of souls and the eternal suffering of the dead lost souls. It is a third view and stands Biblically against annihilationism.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Belief in the mortality of souls and the eternal suffering of the dead lost souls. It is a third view and stands Biblically against annihilationism.

As I said it is your theology vs the Infallible Word of God

 

[atpollard]

I have long held both the mortality of the soul and their eternal suffering. That the death of Christ in His soul on the cross before He physically died is an evidence for the eternal suffering of the lost. Psalms 22:6, Mark 9:48.

How does a soul both die and continue to suffer?
That seems a paradox.

 

[37818]

As I said it is your theology vs the Infallible Word of God

My theology is based on the word God which teaches the mortality of the soul, Matthew 10:28 and the eternal suffering of the perishing, Mark 9:48.

 

[37818]

How does a soul both die and continue to suffer?
That seems a paradox.

By what of the person never dies, Mark 9:48. Jesus' soul died on the cross before He physically died, Isaiah 53:10-12, Psalms 22:6, and was completed, John 19:28.

 

[robycop3]

Jesus is saving people from the wages of sin: death. He is saving them so that they can have eternal life and not perish (John 3:16).

If the traditional eternal torment view were true, how would you explain the passages in the 7 minute video in the OP that speak of the unsaved being burned up and turned to ashes? Unless I've missed it, you have not addressed the main question and argument in the OP directly yet.

Being in hell for simply not being saved will be far-worse than anything on earth. And it'll be far-worse in hell for Hitler, Stalin, Iscariot, etc. & others for deliberately doing evil than it will be for the "mild" sinner. But again, as Scripture says, they'll all be tormented day & night, forever & ever.

Remember, Jesus spoke much more about hell than He did about heaven !

 

[Yeshua1]

Being in hell for simply not being saved will be far-worse than anything on earth. And it'll be far-worse in hell for Hitler, Stalin, Iscariot, etc. & others for deliberately doing evil than it will be for the "mild" sinner. But again, as Scripture says, they'll all be tormented day & night, forever & ever.

Remember, Jesus spoke much more about hell than He did about heaven !

IF all who are lost get burnt up, where would be justice then?

 

[SavedByGrace]

IF all who are lost get burnt up, where would be justice then?

I am not sure that the "fire" is literal, but used to describe the condition that the lost will be eternally in. I must admit that this is the most sad and difficult Doctrine in the Holy Bible.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am not sure that the "fire" is literal, but used to describe the condition that the lost will be eternally in. I must admit that this is the most sad and difficult Doctrine in the Holy Bible.

And yet none who go there will be without excuse, as God will be just!

 

[SavedByGrace]

And yet none who go there will be without excuse, as God will be just!

I am not doubting the Justice of God, but, as Jesus Himself wept over Jerusalem's forthcoming destruction, I too weep for the lost.

 

[Van]

I listened to you first 10 minute video, but the second seemed to indicate a length over one hour so I gave up trying to understand your viewpoint.

I do understand you reject eternal conscious torment, and universalism, but your understanding of Hades and Gehenna and the Lake of Fire escaped me.

By inference you seem to accept that the human conscious spirit/souls of the lost go to Hades after they physically die, and suffer torment, as specific punishment for their misdeeds. Then, whenever Christ returns and the resurrection of the dead occurs, those spirits are reunited with their physical bodies and face the "White Throne Judgement." From there, they are taken to the Lake of Fire, located in Gehenna, and tossed into the lake. They undergo horrible, immediate and complete destruction of their body and soul and spirit. Their existence ends. But the smoke from their torment, being burned alive, goes up for ever and ever.

Is that your view?

 

[Dave G]

" And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

" And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

" But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

" And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

 

[FollowTheWay]

The type of annihilationism I believe in, which is spreading among evangelicals, includes the biblical teaching that the unrighteous will be resurrected to face judgment. The process of being judged will be terrifying. And nothing in annihilationism requires that the process of perishing be instant or painless. It indeed would have been better for Judas if he had not been born!

Everyone, both the saved and the lost, will be judged. [Heb 9:27 KJV] 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
Also: [Mat 25:31-33 KJV] 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Not Biblical. Ezekiel 18:4. James 5:20. Matthew 10:28.

Death of the soul in all these passages refers to the second death. The death of the body is the first death. This does not mean that souls that die the second death no longer exist. They are damned to Hell for all eternity.