Asleep in Jesus

[Mel Miller]

bound,
Quote:
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So as it stands with me, those whom Paul was speaking as being asleep are those Christians who were dead before the expectant Second Coming of our Lord and Saviour.
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The more important question concerns the identity
of those being asleep in Jesus. I like your
statement that seems to acknowledge tribulation
martyrs being included since "God will bring their souls" also with Jesus by "sending the angels at the sound of a great trumpet to gather
them out of all extremities of the heavenS" when
He comes with ALL the saints". I Thess.3:13 must
include the souls mentioned in I Thess.4:13-14!

The Pre-Trib Rapture view advocates that "God
brings only the souls of those that sleep in
Jesus" before the great tribulation. Jesus says
it happens "afterward".

BrotherBob refers to "souls under the altar receiving their robes" at some unknown point before "ALL who must be killed are killed". It
does happen before ALL have been killed.

But the timing that remains is "short" and so
it indicates the souls of all the Martyrs will be included among those that "God brings with
Jesus" AT THE SECOND COMING as you state above.

The Pre-Tribbers assume Jesus did not mean that
"He will *raise* up every/all believers on the
last day and *gather* the elect from earth to
heaven and *send* the angels at the great trumpet
sound to gather them out of all extremities of
the heavenS after the great tribulation" ... so
that He comes "WITH all the Saints" as Paul
states will happen at the PRESENCE of Jesus.
Mark 13:24,27; John 6:38-40; Matt.24:31.

Though Jesus told the sisters that Lazarus was
asleep, Martha understood that he would rise up
at the LAST DAY. She believed Jesus; Pre-
Tribbers cannot explain her faith unless they assume there are two "last days" and two "last trumps". My view is that the 7th Trumpet sounds three times in quick succession on the Last Day.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Brother Bob]

Mel;
Sure glad to have you post that the souls will be brought by God. I didn't know there were so many that believed the soul went out of existence at death. You go a little farther than I do but on this we agree.

blessings;
BBob

 

[Salamander]

Umm, Abraham told the rich man that they have Moses and the Prophets/ meaning the O.T. Scriptures, and the five brethren still would not belive though One rose form the dead/ speaking of Jesus Christ.

The slain under the altar are those who died for the Word of God DURING the Great Tribulation. You could not conclude any different if you would follow the Scripture.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
The Pre-Trib Rapture view advocates that "God
brings only the souls of those that sleep in
Jesus" before the great tribulation. Jesus says
it happens "afterward".

Mel Miller www.lastday.net [/QB]

If the rapture occurs Before the trib,

And people come to believe in Jesus during the trib,

How can Jesus bring the souls of those not yet believers/killed in the pre trib rapture???

In the Pre trib "rapture", Jesus comes as "Christ", (Day of Christ) the "BRIDEGROOM" only of those who have accepted him as Christ. (Church/Bride)

In the post trib "resurrection", Jesus is "Lord of lords", (Day of the lord) over the whole earth.

A Rapture is different than a resurrection, live people can't be "resurrected".

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

I believe that dead and asleep mean the same thing. I believe that when we cross over time will no longer be meaningful. Therefore dying in 1500 and dying in 2006 will be equivelent. Therefore, there's no issue about the time that goes by before the Judgement.

 

[Mel Miller]

StraightAndNarrow,

Will my brother in Christ kindly explain why
Jesus spoke of the countdown of Daniel's known period of 1290 days leading up to the End when
the enemies of God will be destroyed and only those who "call on the Lord and beg for mercy
will be saved"?

The fact that Jesus stated those 1290 days
will be "cut short (by nearly 30 days) for the elect's sake" is argument enough to show we are to count the Endtime days ... with the unknown
last day occurring on one of the final 3 1/2!

Will you explain why it is that the countdown of "Chronos-Time of 1260 days will end" within
3 1/2 days of the 7th Trumpet's annoucement that God's wrath has come? Rev.10:6-7; Rev.11:6-7.

BTW, what I am doing is trying to point out
that Jesus revealed we will "know when the End
is near". That is when God will "show mercy to all" who are "willing to die and do not seek to save themselves and are be KEPT ALIVE". Matt.24:33; Luke 17:33; Rom.11:33; Joel 2:32.

P.S. I have given up trying to pursuade Me4Him
that the "souls that sleep in Jesus and whom
God brings with Jesus" per I Thess.4:13-14 include the Trib-Martyrs who come with all the
Saints per I Thess.3:13". With such irrational remarks as this one from the post above ("How can Jesus bring the souls of those not yet believers/killed in the pre trib rapture???") I would be wasting my time responding to him.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net