Assurance of Salvation

I see you changed bible versions on Matt;

 

I think this deserves reposting. There are many things that Christians do that we don't think should be possible for a Christian to do, such as adultery, stealing, etc. (You could expound the list to the viewpoint of others, such as using wine at communion, speeding, or listening to music that has a beat.)

But, thankfully, our spiritual salvation is dependent upon the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ and not on us ourselves.

Bob, you've been asked this question several times before and you've avoided it. If it's so clear, why won't you explain it?

But, what's the magic level of sin above which a person "proves" that they are saved and below which they aren't?

 

What you know we agree about the Spiritual baptism but I will throw a monkey wrench into it. The Spiritual baptism is to the inward man not the outward.

 

I think you misunderstood Him. You threw in adultrey, stealing and etc. You always go too far. That Spiritual Salvation is much much stronger than you give it credit for. Our God is much much stronger than you give Him credit for. He said "My Grace is suffecient to keep thee". You alway go off the deep end Hope.
No wonder you use the name Hope of Glory. There is no way you can be sure with all that sin unto death you advocate. Why don't you teach men not to sin instead of teaching them they can sin. Jesus said "go and sin no more". He also said that which is born of God cannot sin. I find it hard to believe a preacher would teach Christians they can sin even be a serial killer if they want. Why would anyone listen to that kind of doctrine Hope. I can hear better stuff from the rich man in Hell than that.

 

Why is it that when people like you can't deal with Scripture anymore they start to slander people? HoG has never advocated that people go out and sin. Why would you accuse him of something that he has never said.

Why is it that you can't accept Scripture for what it says. Ephesians 2:10 says works SHOULD be done not works WILL be done. Can't you see the difference. It's plain to see. And that's not even going back to the original language which makes it even more clear than that.

No one has taught that people have the freedom to sin and that nothing will happen to them if they continue in it. That's only your false accusations that are saying that.

We do not have the liberty to sin. If we choose to live in sin then there will be consequences. It's just that the Bible says the consequences are different than what you are espousing.

 

You do too, you both say Christian can do awful sins and that is encouraging them to do so.

 

No it's not. Bob let me give you a basic English lesson.

If I wanted to encourage someone to sin this is what I would say.

Hey the Bible says that it doesn't matter what you do as long as you accept Christ as Savior. Once you do that you can go and live life anyway you want to and nothing will happen. Go and do whatever you please.

Neither I, nor HoG have done that. The fact of the matter is that we are to live a perfect and holy life. That doesn't mean we will as you so wrongly assume.

Again why do you choose to ingnore the plain teaching of Scripture. If what you are saying is true that we are only going to do good things, then why didn't the Holy Spirit instruct Paul to pen the word WILL instead of SHOULD in Ephesians 2:10. Why is it a subjunctive verb instead of an imperitive verb.

Bob you are wrong and there's no way you can get around it. And slandering brothers in Christ is not going to help your matter.

We do not encourage people to sin and as a matter of fact we teach that there are consequences if you choose to live that way. I can't make someone live right all I can do is teach them what the Bible says and that is if you choose to live a life of sin then there is bad news for you on the other end and you'll be sorry for your choices.

Bob plain and simple you just need to stop falsely accusing folks just because you can't admit you are in error!

 

You posts speak for themselves. You want it both ways. You want to say Christian can even be serial killers and boldly post it on this web site for the world to see and then say noooooo not me. I said you had to live a holy life.

Romans, chapter 6

"16": Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1 John, chapter 5

"16": If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


Some pretty strong Scriptures here.

 

Because I didn't think you would understand the Scriptures in the original language:ἐγὼ μὲν ὑμᾶς βαπτίζω ἐν ὕδατι εἰς μετάνοιαν· ὁ δὲ ὀπίσω μου ἐρχόμενος ἰσχυρότερός μού ἐστιν, οὗ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἱκανὸς τὰ ὑποδήματα βαστάσαι· αὐτὸς ὑμᾶς βαπτίσει ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ καὶ πυρί·

Also, because all KJVO types and many KVJP's will not accept anything other than the TR, and Young's is translated from the TR.

Now, I could have quoted the CLV, which is the most accurate (but not easily readable) translation that I've come across: For I, indeed, am baptizing you in water for repentance, yet He Who is coming after me is stronger than I, Whose sandals I am not competent to bear. He will be baptizing you in holy spirit and fire,

Or, I could have even quoted Rotherham's, which is a very good translation, and easily readable: I, indeed, am immersing you, in water, unto repentance,—but, he who, after me, cometh is, mightier than I, whose, sandals, I am not worthy to bear, he, will immerse you, in Holy Spirit and fire:

 

How is that a monkey wrench?

 

But it's not strong enough to keep you from the little sins such as little white lies and things like that?

The hope of glory is hoping for... well, glory. If you're only hoping for spiritual salvation, then you've got a problem, because that's assured and can never be revoked, nor even given up.

What do you think I've been doing? I've just been denying your unbiblical teachings that your works are what saves you. (It doesn't matter what sort of verbal gymnastics you play, works are works are works, whether you say they're required to become saved, to stay saved, or to prove you're saved.)

God has promised many great rewards if we are obedient. We should be obedient because we love him, but we can be obedient simply out of fear. Either way, he has esteemed these rewards enough to make them available, and we should esteem them enough to want them.

If you don't take that which he has given you (not that which you have earned) and produce with it, then you are an unprofitable servant. We've been warned of the dire consequences of being an unprofitable servant.

As much as I harp on faithful living, I don't understand quite how you could be so blind as to think that I don't teach men not to sin. That is what I teach constantly!

It's just that our everlasting salvation is not based upon that. Our spiritual salvation is based entirely upon the finished work of the Lord Jesus upon the cross, and that work was perfect.

Why do you teach that people need to "help Jesus out" by adding to what he did?

 

By the way, what's the magic line, Bob? What's the point above which someone has been good enough to be saved, but below which they have not?

 

When someone's only line of defense is to lie and slander about what someone has said, it's a very weak point from which they're coming. Bob, you are accusing me of saying things that I have never said.

 

I don't think I understand you.
I believe you are saved by Grace through faith and not of yourselves or works but it is a gift of God. I believe you have to be led by the Spirit of God to repentance which leads to Salvation. I believe it takes God's Grace to save you and that is through Faith. I believe is the word of God "that which is born of God cannot sin" talking about the inward man which is the true church without spot or blemish. I believe that God's church is clean and the devil can't touch it. I believe the flesh or outward man is still waiting on his change but is kept by the power of God unto Salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. I believe after you have heard the word of truth the Gospel of your Salvation and after you have believed then are you sealed with the Spirit of Holy promise. I believe there is a sin which is not unto death but I also believe there is a sin unto death and there is no need to pray for that man. I believe the Children of God are kept by the power of God and cannot commit those kind of sins. I believe that God has forever watched over his church. I believe he gave her the wings of a great eagle where she flew into the wildernes where she was nourished for a time and a time and a half a time. a place prepared of God. I believe that no flesh would be saved in the tribulations but for the elects sake those days were shortened. I believe that Jesus is coming back in the cloud of Glory and He will be bringing the angels with Him where He will send them to the four corners of the earth and to the four winds to gather His children. I believe He also is bringing the Lamb's book of Life and He will call our names. I believe that no grave will hold our bodies down but when the Lord calls we will answer and meet Him in the air and forever be with him. I believe that we have a mansion in Heaven. I believe we will sing a new song "I been redeemed, both soul and body". I believe that God will take His church home and that in Heaven He has seven vials filled with the wrath of God reserved to be poured out on this earth. I believe this earth will burn up with fervant heat and pass away with a great noise. I believe the dead both small and great will stand before God and both death and hell will give up the dead in them and both death and hell will be judged out of the things written in the books. I believe that Jesus said I judge you not but the words I speak will judge you in the last day. I believe those who commit adultery without forgiveness will hear him say depart ye workers of iniquity for I never knew you. I believe in a real Heaven where the throne is and that God is sitting on that throne. I believe that even when a bird falls to the ground that God knows it so how much more does He know when we hurt or suffer. I believe when we look out and see the death angel coming we can say come welcome death I will gladly go with thee. I believe to die in Christ is gain. I believe that our works will follow after. shall I go on?

 

I will let your words be my defense and you do tell false.

 

Did we miss this verse in this discussion.

1 ¶ It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife..................

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

You're right I switched up on you, two things at once, my brain jumps tracks like that some times. I do think I agree with you because I just don't see how a true believer that is born again from above could fall away. When it comes to:


(Heb 10:29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(Heb 10:30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

It appears that Paul is speaking to those who are saved, saying they were sanctified, and the Lord shall judge "His" people. Like I said earlier though I think this is to keep (protect) God's saints from falling away. Then in Mark 13:20 it says for the elects sake the days where shortened as no flesh would be saved seeming to be a possibility of such but I think to look at it as a promise again to protect as so it just won't/can't happen or I might add to keep in the way of the Spirit. Belief of a saint will never fail because he does have the faith of a true believer. I would say the possibilities do seem to exist but only for instruction to the saints to help keep them. What is your take on this?


(Mar 13:20) And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Edit: to say or is it just your thought that the Word is just speaking about backsliders?

 

Brother Bob you are a funny man. In your last post you sound like the donkey from the movie Shrek singing his song I believe, and he just continues I believe, I believe, I believe, I believe . . .

Unfortunately some of what you believe just doesn't correspond with what the Bible teaches. You can't even keep your story straight from one section of this board to another.

In the Other's section you said that it was your obedient work that led to God giving you grace. Then here you say no it's God's grace without man's works.

Which is it Bob? Do our works come into play regarding eternal salvation or do they not? Your trying to have your cake and eat it to.

 

You suggest that belief is works and that choice is works when plainly the Bible is talking in Eph; 2 of the works of the Law, circumcision. You Calvinist stretch it to fit your belief and then say I can't keep my story straight. The problem is that you don't have a story to begin with for you do not understand the Scriptures. I just told one Calvinist that at least he debated without slander but you don't fit into that catogory.

 

There you go again putting words into my mouth. I NEVER EVER ONCE said that faith is a work. Please provide the quote where I said faith is a work.

As has been said before works are works are works are works. It doesn't matter if it is a work of the Law or if it is baptism, making Christ Lord of your life, repentence or any other work you want to throw in there. Works are works are works.

Ephesians 2 says NO WORKS Bob. NO WORKS means exactly that NO WORKS. It is by God's grace through faith. It's based SOLELY on the works of Jesus Christ in His death and shed blood - THAT'S IT.

Now you are accusing me of being a Calvinist :laugh: When have I ever told you that I am a Calvinist? By the way I'm not. I believe that everyone has a choice to believe in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus or not.

Because you can't. That has been shown in the post above.

Comical...you should take that show on the road.

Again quite comical coming from you the person that accuses people of believing something they don't and accusing people of saying things they didn't say.