Assurance of Salvation

Hi, Benjamin. Thanks for your post. I'm not sure what you are asking, but I do believe Christians can backslide, they can sear their conscience. This to me is different from an apostate who denies the faith and has contempt for God. I've talked to a lot of Christians who got involved with psychics or astrology or whatnot. Their walk was damaged, they often stopped reading the bible or going to church but - and this is key - they were misreable and they knew they had done something wrong, and had not lost faith in Christ. They were just in a rut and did not how to get out or who to go to. They were ashamed of asking pastors or other believers about what they had done. The fact they felt convicted and wanted to get out of the rut shows the work of the HS in them. I don't believe Christians can live a sinless life, so we all sin - how far we go depends on whether we want to obey God and resist temptation or not.

Apostates, once they turn away, seem more obvious because of their contempt for what they formerly said they believed in. They deny and denounce God, the faith, and Christ or just live as though God does not exist or they get "converted" to a non-Christian belief.

Then you have the tares - those who seem to be Christians and act like it, but really aren't. We usually can't even tell they are not believers, that's why they are the tares. Jesus says in Matt 13.30 to leave the tares until the end when he will send reapers to gather them up.

I'm not sure, but I think some people think Mark 13.20 points to the rapture - that believers will be caught up before the tribulation (so the days of the elect will be shortened).

 

I guess the point I was trying to make is that if you read the scriptures like the ones I posted on the first page it appears that it is speaking to the sanctified, true believers, brothers, or whatever, about the possibility of a saved believer falling away. Some do not think this is possible through pre-determinism but I as person that believes God created His creatures with a free will I think it strongly supports free will, though I still get to OSAS but in a different way.

Again with Mark 13:20, “except” God shortened the days, no flesh would be saved inferring that if He hadn’t the possibility of even the elect not being saved? How could that be? Truth is because of free will they could have BUT they won’t because God has provided for, protected His saints. I think He always does and one way is protecting them, another by warning.

Some will say these scriptures could only be speaking to backsliders, that is the only way it will fit their theology, but IMO they have to work the scriptures pretty hard to do that and I think it simply says what it says and OSAS along with free will works for me along the lines of these verses being assurance, and that with free will comes together in freedom by faith by being in Christ for eternity. IOW’s in order for free will to exist the possibility of falling away must exist but we won’t because we remain free in Christ. I was wondering what your take was of this?

 

I do not think all those passages are about apostasy. Being delivered unto Satan does not mean losing salvation, but it means being disfellowshiped and given over to the consequences of sin. It was a form of discipline for an unrepetant believer. By being out of fellowship, he/she would see clearly the consequences of sin (hopefully).

The sin unto death is not apostasy, either. Most believe this a kind of dire sin a believer is practicing and God takes them out (lets them die) so that the church is not tainted. Some believe this is what happened to Anias and Sapphira. I know someone whose brother died in jail and was a drug addict. He had been saved but could not beat his addiction -- he was really far gone. He died, she thinks, because God thought it was better for him to go home. She thought this was sin unto death. I don't know about that, but my pastor does believe this sin unto death is the sin of a believer whom God "takes out" for his own reasons. This may have only been a case for the early church.

I don't have time to look at all the others and not sure I can explain them, either! You probably should get a good commentary or two and look them up.

Since there are passages that speak clearly about being sealed by the HS, Jesus not losing any given to him, having eternal life (in present tense), etc., there cannot be a passage saying we can lose our salvation. Scripture has to be compared with scripture.

"Saved" does not always mean salvation in the Bible. It can just mean "rescued" which is what it might mean in this passage.

 

Amen, 'Hope'!

Ed

 

Back to the original question, not the debate. How about John 1:12; John 3:16-18, John 3:36, John 6:47, and a personal favorite, John 5:24, which says:
"24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.“" (NKJV) That verse alone gives a three-fold 'assurance', to me at least.

Ed

 

Thanks Marcia,

Yep, my past comparing of scripture to scripture seemed to come up with a possibility that is not possible. From there I determined that it can’t be determined so I’ll stick to that a true believer can not truly not believe.