Atemporal vs Omnitemporal

[tinytim]

When discussing God's relationship to time, I have seen these two terms used.

What is the difference between atemporal, and omnitemporal?

And what doctrines do they affect?

 

[Brandon C. Jones]

In the tradition they should mean the same thing, but somehow people have misrepresented the traditional view to where they mean different things. The traditional view of atemporality was "duration without succession."

Some will say they mean different things and I'm sure some in this board will explain why they should mean different things. I'll let them attempt to explain that stuff in their own terms because it always confuses me and is usually invoked in attempts to eradicate all tensions in doctrines that involve God's relationship to His creation as if that were possible down here.

 

[Scarlett O.]

In the tradition they should mean the same thing, but somehow people have misrepresented the traditional view to where they mean different things.

I agree with you.

But let's say for the sake of argument that they do mean two mutually exclusive things. God is atemporal meaning that He is independent of time. And omnitemporal meaning that He is all throughout time.

I think He is both. He is independent of time in that He created time for humanity to be able to organize their lives and function in an orderly manner.

Genesis 1:14 - "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and for years...."

He is also all throughout his own creation of time in that He never changes within the confines of time as understood by humanity.

The same God that led the Hebrew children from bondage is the same God that is calling His American children to turn away from the bondage of sin and come to repentance.

So I say He is both.

How's that for straddling the fence! :laugh:

 

[tinytim]

Thanks you all,

I have understood them to be just like Scarlett said. But I'm not for sure.

 

[Allan]

It is not so much about God but the argument concering Gods determing what man will do (atemporal) and the actual activity God does with each man as they exist in time (omnitemporal).

God is both but it is actually a discussion of Gods foreknowledge and actaul work in a persons life.

It particularly concerns the doctrine of salvation and the aspects therein.

 

[Jarthur001]

When discussing God's relationship to time, I have seen these two terms used.

What is the difference between atemporal, and omnitemporal?

And what doctrines do they affect?

Tim,

I believe you are not comparing the right words. You may look at atemporal or temporal 1st.

The usual understanding of "eternity" is atemporal or timeless existence, that is, existence in which there is no temporal succession or duration.

"Omnitemporal" simply means "existing at all moments of time." It is not the same as "sempiternal," for a sempiternal entity can come into existence at a time and then continue without end. An example of sempiternal, would be light. Light had a beginning, but will never end. While an omnitemporal entity cannot fail to exist at any time.

Generally, an entity described as "outside of time" is considered timeless or atemporal, while an entity which is omnitemporal is still a temporal entity, in that it is saying that the entity is within all time frames. Both are ways of being eternal..the first, timelessly eternal... the second, everlastingly eternal.

**********
ADDED LATER..

After thinking about it, I would like to change what I said. I guess you can indeed compare omnitemporal with atemporal.

Atemporal means no temporal succession or no duration. Time cannot be pinned to the word atemporal.

so to compare with omnitemporal....

Omnitemporal is in all time frames and only exist as long as there is time. If time stop, so does omnitemporal.

 

[tinytim]

So we are sempiternal? I have a beginning without end.
I have always considered God atemporal, but also knew that he operated within time. It was only recently, I came across the term omnitemporal, which means sense also..

So if I understand right, God is both atemporal, and omnitemporal.
We are sempiternal.

Here is my next question. Can an entity be omnitemporal without being atemporal?

 

[Jarthur001]

So we are sempiternal? I have a beginning without end.
I have always considered God atemporal, but also knew that he operated within time. It was only recently, I came across the term omnitemporal, which means sense also..

So if I understand right, God is both atemporal, and omnitemporal.
We are sempiternal.

Here is my next question. Can an entity be omnitemporal without being atemporal?

Before I give my view...I want to point out what you said...

"I have always considered God atemporal, but also knew that he operated within time."

I agree with this 100%

Can a entity be omnitemporal and not atemporal?

Yes. The earth is just one of many omnitemporal entity that is not atemporal. The earth will always be here as long as time is around. When the earth stops, time is also stopped. With no time, nothing is omnitemporal.

 

[tinytim]

Of course!!!
Time is needed to be omnitemporal.

After time ceases we have atemporal...

I believe this was discussed in the last episode of Star Trek TNG.
When time meets "anti-time" And Picard becomes omnitemporal..

Hmmmm...

My brain hurts now.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I believe this was discussed in the last episode of Star Trek TNG. When time meets "anti-time" And Picard becomes omnitemporal..

If that's the one I'm thinking of......great episode!

My brain hurts now.

 

[Sularis]

*gasp* incorrect Star Trek

In reference to that episode Picard was actually still semptemporal - since he had a birth

omnitemporal goes a little bit further - it actually refers to a non-beginning throughout time

Even the Q were semptemporal - God - even if He was omnitemporal is limited by time - If time has a beginning or ending God would have a beginning and ending. God is outside of time - He is atemporal as we understand it. The problem is we dont fully understand time as either a dimension or an object - since time appears malleable by gravitic forces or other high energy forces - i suggest that it is at best a quasi-dimension at worst an object - In any case it is something I believe that God created on the first day when He created the first day - of course this lumps in with my heretical view that there existed pre-creation

Time is stretched out as threads in a loom - where He weaves and enters as He wills

 

[baptistteacher]

Could another term, extemporal be used? ex - out, as in outside of time. Just as God exists outside of His creation, He is outside of time, since it is part of His creation.