freeatlast
New Member
A restaurant owner should be able...
http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/2012/...rant-over-church-going-discount/?subscriber=1
http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/2012/...rant-over-church-going-discount/?subscriber=1
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Atheist Sues Restaurant
- Thread starter freeatlast
- Start date
This is a dilemma in which I must admit I can see both sides of the issue. It came up just a few weeks ago when about a dozen from our class went to a restaurant that has a discount for showing your church bulletin. I had known about it before, but it did not enter my mind that day before I walked in, and I was reminded only by some of the others having theirs with them.
I do not think I am due any reward from a restaurant for showing something that indicates (perhaps falsely, for all they would know) that I attended church that day. But can a business of public accomodation not choose what they wish to promote? I do know of such places that are open late on Fridays and offer a discount for showing your ticket stub to a high school football game, as one example. But participation in football is not included in civil rights laws which forbid discrimination in public accomodations. Senior discounts would be age discrimination, though in reverse of its normal meaning in most cases where it has been applied. If there was an NAACP convention in the community, could a restaurant offer discounts if you show you participated in some capacity in that? I don't know, but I doubt if there would any lawsuits filed that would not be quickly thrown out. That would be "affirmative action."
So is affirmative action for churches acceptable? Or does it favor one group of people over others? And also don't forget that if that church bulletin discount is only offered on Sundays, that not all churches meet on Sundays, and surely some churches do not even have bulletins.
I will come down on the side of the restaurants that choose to do this, but not without some reservations about it. And as I sit here I just don't know if the next time we go that place, or another which offers the discount, that I will take my bulletin in if I have one and remember.
I do not think I am due any reward from a restaurant for showing something that indicates (perhaps falsely, for all they would know) that I attended church that day. But can a business of public accomodation not choose what they wish to promote? I do know of such places that are open late on Fridays and offer a discount for showing your ticket stub to a high school football game, as one example. But participation in football is not included in civil rights laws which forbid discrimination in public accomodations. Senior discounts would be age discrimination, though in reverse of its normal meaning in most cases where it has been applied. If there was an NAACP convention in the community, could a restaurant offer discounts if you show you participated in some capacity in that? I don't know, but I doubt if there would any lawsuits filed that would not be quickly thrown out. That would be "affirmative action."
So is affirmative action for churches acceptable? Or does it favor one group of people over others? And also don't forget that if that church bulletin discount is only offered on Sundays, that not all churches meet on Sundays, and surely some churches do not even have bulletins.
I will come down on the side of the restaurants that choose to do this, but not without some reservations about it. And as I sit here I just don't know if the next time we go that place, or another which offers the discount, that I will take my bulletin in if I have one and remember.
Last edited by a moderator:
freeatlast
New Member
There is no dilemma here. The owner has the right to discount any amount to anyone they choose. I hope the owner does not cave to the pressure.
Just to be sure, you're saying they do have 'the right' to offer a 10% discount to white customers?
freeatlast
New Member
I think that could be challenged and it should. However this includes all people of all color. Even the atheist could get the discount if he went and got a bulletin so their is no discrimination. It was his choice not to take part. There is no dilemma.
If you'll allow me....This isn't DIRECTLY related to the church bulletin issue, but....
I still remember listening to Dave Ramsey's comments (rants?) about people who work the Sunday-after-church crowd. According to DR, restaurant wait staff will usually tell him that this particular shift is among the worst in that they tend to be very demanding and display very little consideration to the usually over-worked and under-paid staff.
While I can't vouch for any of our BB family who visit restaurants after Sunday AM services (I'm so broke that "the arches" is about all I can afford), I just wonder if anyone out there in BB land can relate to this?
DR's biggest peeve seems to lie in these people stiffing the wait staff and/or practice very little in the way of the amount of tips. According to DR, the tackiest thing is when a customer leaves little or no tip, but DOES leave one of those little tracts that look like a folded dollar bill!
IF I ever do eat out at a restaurant (no matter when), I usually always try to give at least 15-20% of the bill.
What say thee?
(If this should be the subject of a separate thread, Mods and/or Admins are welcome to move this somewhere else.)
I still remember listening to Dave Ramsey's comments (rants?) about people who work the Sunday-after-church crowd. According to DR, restaurant wait staff will usually tell him that this particular shift is among the worst in that they tend to be very demanding and display very little consideration to the usually over-worked and under-paid staff.
While I can't vouch for any of our BB family who visit restaurants after Sunday AM services (I'm so broke that "the arches" is about all I can afford), I just wonder if anyone out there in BB land can relate to this?
DR's biggest peeve seems to lie in these people stiffing the wait staff and/or practice very little in the way of the amount of tips. According to DR, the tackiest thing is when a customer leaves little or no tip, but DOES leave one of those little tracts that look like a folded dollar bill!
IF I ever do eat out at a restaurant (no matter when), I usually always try to give at least 15-20% of the bill.
What say thee?
(If this should be the subject of a separate thread, Mods and/or Admins are welcome to move this somewhere else.)
Magnetic Poles
New Member
The FFRF, a church-state watchdog group comprised of primarily atheists and agnostics, litigates cases like this. Apparently the Civil Rights Act prohibits such as discriminatory. From FFRF:
These types of promotions are illegal under federal law. The Civil Rights Act states in relevant part, “All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation . . . without discrimination on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.” 42 U.S.C. §2000a(a). As a place of “public accommodation,” it is illegal for restaurants, grocery stores or other businesses to discriminate, or show favoritism, on the basis of religion. Church bulletin discounts are restrictive promotional practices, which favor religious customers and deny customers who do not attend church, and nonbelievers, the right to “full and equal” enjoyment of the restaurant, store or other business.
These types of promotions are illegal under federal law. The Civil Rights Act states in relevant part, “All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation . . . without discrimination on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.” 42 U.S.C. §2000a(a). As a place of “public accommodation,” it is illegal for restaurants, grocery stores or other businesses to discriminate, or show favoritism, on the basis of religion. Church bulletin discounts are restrictive promotional practices, which favor religious customers and deny customers who do not attend church, and nonbelievers, the right to “full and equal” enjoyment of the restaurant, store or other business.
freeatlast
New Member
Yes it should be the subject is another thread, but to answer the question the reason I tip expected amounts is not because it is an absoulte but so I can witness other wise I would base it on the service. One way is to ask the waiter/waitress if there is anything that you can pray for them about as you bless the food. I have had some ask if they could join with the prayer time.
Atheists are getting the full and equal enjoyment of goods at the restaurant. They are able to be accomodated there without discrimination. If they bring a church bulletin with them, they will get a price discount. But nobody is denying them service. If you believe this is discrimination then you might as well outlaw the clipping of coupons for price discounts.
