Atonement

Yeah, God would never force anyone to do anything against their free will. That whole Jonah-fish thing was just a fluke.

 

Excellent point... unless it can be proven that Jonah had a secret will to be swallowed by a fish...where's brother Bill?

Bro. Dallas

 

Andy Stanley makes a great point about confession. While sins have been forgiven for the Christian, sin can still damage our relationship with God and even cause us physical pain. However, our confession should be to each other! God honors the prayers of the saints, but our restoration from our sins comes from our being accountability and open to our fellow believers. It is them that we are to confess to!

Interesting, huh?

 

</font>[/QUOTE]I'd guess this is also part of washing each other's feet, wouldn't you say?

 

We who follow a Biblical exposition and clear understanding do not deny depravity. We know that we have all fallen in Adam and that we are responsible for not only our old nature of sin, the Adamic nature, but also sins of commission and omission. We know we are under condemnation as sinners.

My point was that Calvinists hid or speak little about the 'image of God' [James 3:9] in humans because this would clearly, detract and undermine their concept of "Total Depravity." Approximately 6,000 years since Creation God is still allowing sinners to be born ' . . . after His likeness. [James 3:9] Both before the Fall [Genesis 1:26-27 and even after the Flood [Genesis 9:6] we notice that God still makes men and women in the image of God. Calvinists seemingly don't emphasize the 'image of God in man;' and deal with it like some parents, used to do, by hiding a demented/insane child away from public view. The image of God in sinners is a fact even though Calvinists don't bring it out into the open and either willfully or inadvertently hid it from their people.

I sure would like to hear some Calvinistic exegesis on John 1:9. 'He is the true Light who lights every person coming into the world.' Is this another verse that is treated like an insane family member?

 

That goes against what James teaches us. We are to confess our sins one to another.

 

A saved person could sin and then die the next second. Obviously, there wouldn't be an opportunity to confess sin. But the person is still saved if grace means anything at all.

 

Ray,

Um...I enjoyed your post. However, we, you and I, seem to have this consistant disagreement about depravity.

Obviously, we are in the image of God. Adam was created in the Image of God; Eve was created in the Image of God. I do not think we disagree on that point.

However, you and I are not "created" as such. We are pro-created. Our ultimate human parents are Adam and Eve. Now, their sin, which affected them greatly, became part of them. That part is passed on to us--simply because we are ultimatly their progeny.

The "image" that they had is marred by sin. Likewise, our "image" is too marred by sin.

So, to make the arguement that you make above does not make a whole-lot of sense.

Similarly, I don't think that you are understanding the most basic meaning of "Image of God." Yes, there are aspects of the "image" such as: Derived Eternality; a soul; etc. However, those things are all secondary.

The primary meaning of Image of God is that we are God's vice-regents. He is the Suzerain and we are the Vassal. We, as in the case of Adam and Eve, were to be God's ruling representative here on earth. We were to rule over everything--the land; the animals; the whole earth. But, we were to rule in a right relationship to God. Obviously, that is now all messed up. Sure we still rule. However, because the upward, God-centered aspect is gone, we rule poorly and, as we all have seen, oppressively.

I look forward to further discussion!

Blessings,

Archangel

 

Amen.

Bro. Dallas

 

Archangel,

I agree with your post and especially about our nature of sin, the Adamic naturek that is passed on to us through procreation.

 

Cool!

Archangel