Atonement

Cassidy is a self proclaimed Seminary professor, He knows he did not ask answerable questions! Don't be fooled by his foolishness!

 

"Can't answer" and "refuse to play cassidy's game" are two different things!


There is no correct question so there can be no correct answer!

 

With your poll, with your questions there is no correct answer! A damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

You translation means nothing!

 

No, the point of the poll is to show the ignorance that Calvinists display when they ask stupid questions. Yet again the Calvinist tries to show that they alone have the truth, this reminds me of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc, who also think that they are the only right people. I very mich doubt there are any on this board who believe in the second question, and I am yet to find an Arminian who believes that either.

Both Cassidy and Whetstone are alike in showing the true colours of Calvinism, which is based more on heresy than the Word of God. If they believe that Jesus did not die for the whole world, then why don't they preach it? I have yet to hear a Calvinist preacher say in his Gospel sermon, that Jesus did not die for some of you here. They believe it, but don't preach it, because in reality it is a load of hogwash!

We have seen from John Calvin's own writings, as I have in Robert Dabney, where in the space of a few pages they contradict their position on the extent of the Atonement. This is because this doctrine is what Paul calls, "the doctrine of demons"

 

No, the point of the poll is to show the ignorance that Calvinists display when they ask stupid questions. Yet again the Calvinist tries to show that they alone have the truth, this reminds me of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc, who also think that they are the only right people. I very mich doubt there are any on this board who believe in the second question, and I am yet to find an Arminian who believes that either.

Both Cassidy and Whetstone are alike in showing the true colours of Calvinism, which is based more on heresy than the Word of God. If they believe that Jesus did not die for the whole world, then why don't they preach it? I have yet to hear a Calvinist preacher say in his Gospel sermon, that Jesus did not die for some of you here. They believe it, but don't preach it, because in reality it is a load of hogwash!

We have seen from John Calvin's own writings, as I have in Robert Dabney, where in the space of a few pages they contradict their position on the extent of the Atonement. This is because this doctrine is what Paul calls, "the doctrine of demons" </font>[/QUOTE]

How many truths are expressed in Scripture regarding the accomplishment of the atonement?

Calvinists really just rest in Christ, they make no pretension of knowing who will and/or will not come to Christ. They only know that all for whom Christ died, Redemption is sure, not possible, but complete. It is impossible to preach that which is known only to God. This is why they don't preach it.

The question is whether Christ atoned for the whole world, if so, then the atonement is of no effect until men (viewed as the whole world) make the application to themselves individually.

In truth, the atonement is for the elect in Christ; and also for the whole world, as Paul teaches in Romans 8.

a debtor to Free Grace,
Bro. Dallas

 

What you are not seeing Frogman, is that the Christ's atonement for the sin of the world is complete and totally effective whether or not man "applies" it to himself! The Work the Father gave to the Son, is total and it is finished!

The atonement for sin was necessary because sin caused death! With Christ's death ONCE for ALL, no other human needs to, nor can die for sinning!

There is now only one reason for human's to die the second death, and that reason is LACK of FAITH!

 

I can see your point, but what you aren't seeing in your own explanation is the fact that Christ could not have died and atoned for all sin, if there remains a sin of unbelief which condemns anyone .

This is the only end which can be realized by such a system that makes the atonement both sufficient and efficient for all sin, then to make exception to the sin of unbelief being that which bars any from eternal life.

On one hand you declare the accomplished atonement, fully answering to all sin, yet on the other, you declare the sin of unbelief to condemn some. In this way, you declare the atonement to be unfinished, until the application of faith occurs in the heart, and on the lips of the individual. It is this which I believe is unscriptural.

a debtor to Free Grace,
Bro. Dallas

 

The options were obviously slanted in favor of one angle.

I agree with a combination of both answers or a None of the Above answer.
And yes, I was the one who was not going to be suckered into answering what the poller wants to hear.

I didn't save myself, my faith doesn't save me, it's not my grip on God that saves me, it is the work of Christ that was finished when He pronounced it to be.

 

How do you then eliminate the sin of unbelief in a person's life?

 

Frogman, you say:

"On one hand you declare the accomplished atonement, fully answering to all sin, yet on the other, you declare the sin of unbelief to condemn some. In this way, you declare the atonement to be unfinished, until the application of faith occurs in the heart, and on the lips of the individual. It is this which I believe is unscriptural"

This is the typical Calvinistic misunderstanding of the Atonement. Christ, Who could only have died the once, made complete Atonement for all the sins of the entire human race, where He said, "It is finished" How can you say that the Atonement is "unfinished", just because there are those yet in unbelief? Scripture affirms that a person is lost and has the wrath of God on him (John 3:36); which is only "removed" when the sinner repents and has their sins forgiven. You have failed to understand that Salvation is indeed "conditional", this is known as "repentance and faith". Faith in what? The finished work of Jesus Christ. People are going to hell every day, not because of God not "providing" for their sins in the Atonement, but, because the refuse to accept the Atonement of Jesus Christ as the ONLY way of Salvation. Man will not conform to God's Just requirements that was completed in the Atonement, and because of their wilful rejection of this, they are responsible for their ultimate destruction.

I cannot see any other solution in Scripture of Salvation and Damnation, than the teching that Christ died for everyone without exception.

 

Why would God hold that against anyone?

 

Because they are denying to receive the gift of God.

 

So what's wrong with that?

 

Because he is just and those people who reject His gift must pay the wage of sin which is death.

 

But I thought their sins were already paid for.

 

If I was in a restaraunt and the person I was with picked up the tab, I still have to partake of the food. It's my choice. I can deny to eat or agree to eat.

 

So what's wrong with that? </font>[/QUOTE]Whatever, I don't understand your simple questions?

 

But you said that those who refuse Christ have to pay the wages of sin, which is death. That would be like saying that if you do not eat the meal then you would have to pay for the meal, even though your friend already paid for it. How does that make sense?