Atonement

Whoa! I never said that Jesus eliminated sin in man! I said that Jesus atoned for, that is HE PAID THE PENALTY that sin brought with it in the stead of all mankind having to die for sin!

BIIIIIG Difference!

 

I'm just asking what it is that God has against those whose sins have been paid for. You're asking me to believe that God would pay for people's sins and then condemn them to Hell anyway. What is His basis for sending them to Hell, if not their sins?

 

Sorry, I was not clear in my post. Absolutely, Christ paid the penalty, however, God is just and righteous and can not allow sin into heaven. Those who reject Christ's gift are not covered by the blood of Christ and thusly deserve eternal damnation.

He does send them to hell, because they denied his free gift of Christ. It's a slap in the face to an almight God!

 

My bad

 

But it's a slap in the face that has been paid for.

I'm confused about this - you say that Christ paid their penalty, but you also say that they are not covered by Christ's blood. Isn't that what the atonement is about - covering? Here's an example from Exodus 29:35-37:

"Thus you shall do to Aaron and to his sons, according to all that I have commanded you. Through seven days shall you ordain them, and every day you shall offer a bull as a sin offering for atonement. Also you shall purify the altar, when you make atonement for it, and shall anoint it to consecrate it. Seven days you shall make atonement for the altar and consecrate it, and the altar shall be most holy."

So atonement purifies and makes holy. It sounds like you're saying that the covering provided by Christ's blood is limited to those who believe.

 

I'm just asking what it is that God has against those whose sins have been paid for. You're asking me to believe that God would pay for people's sins and then condemn them to Hell anyway. What is His basis for sending them to Hell, if not their sins? </font>[/QUOTE]What God has against those who do not repent? Against those to reject His Way of Salvation? Who reject Jesus Christ as the ONLY Saviour of mankind? If you were to read 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12, you will very clearly here see why people will be going to hell. "that they might be damned, who believe not the Truth, but have pleasure in unrighteousness" (verse 12)

In 2 Peter 2:1 (as the Bible has it, without the tricks of the Calvinists, who twist this), we read, that there are those who will deny Jesus Christ Who has "bought them" How did Jesus "buy" them, if it was not by His death on the cross?

 

Whoa! I never said that Jesus eliminated sin in man! I said that Jesus atoned for, that is HE PAID THE PENALTY that sin brought with it in the stead of all mankind having to die for sin!

BIIIIIG Difference! </font>[/QUOTE]My point is that Christ did atone for all the sins of all the elect. Not one for whom He Redeemed (bought with a price) will fail to be brought.

He died for the sin of the elect only. If He died for the sin(s) of any other then that one could not be condemned because their lives would have to be hidden in Christ; therefore the atonement (covering).

The Hebrew notion of the atonement means something needs to be covered (sin), something provided as a covering (the righteousness of God, in Christ), something actually covered (sin) being our redemption through His blood.

Now, having something to atone, makes the atonement particular to sins, either make these that of all mankind and therefore the sins of all man are covered or make it as scripture does that of the elect only, and therefore each individual in Christ will enjoy the benefits of that particular atonement.

Something to cover=sin
a covering provided=the righteousness of God in Christ
Something covered=sins through the redemption we have through His blood.

This is the atonement, otherwise making the atonement general means all sin of all people is now covered, except the sin of unbelief. Unless you would reject unbelief as a sin.

debtor to free Grace,
Bro. Dallas

 

A more perfect confession I have never seen.

Nice going TC!

 

So you're saying that Christ's payment for their sins, His "buying" them through His blood, is not enough, and that something more needs to be done? What more needs to be done?

 

OK I agree - the survey listed stupid-answer after stupid-answer.

I stand corrected.

Why not post something serious instead?

In Christ,

Bob

 

Perfect!

Unfortunately that "smart" response was not an available option - just a list of answers that TC calls "stupid answers" to choose from.

How "instructive" that Calvinism is reduced to that ploy.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Paul uses the same tricks.

2 Tim. 2:13

Is denial the same as rejection?

Is there degrees of faith? Romans 1:17


debtor to Free Grace,
Bro. Dallas

 

I stand corrected - the question is bogus, as are the answers in the survey. Possibly TC is only willing to conceed this of the answers - but the question is certainly off the wall as much as any of the answers.


"Did Jesus create sentient beings that have more capacity than a piece of dead wood?"

"Yes or No"?

"Does the DRAWING power of the Holy Spirit ENABLE the choice that depravity disables"?

"Yes or No"?

Did God REALLY So love the WORLD that He GAVE, or just some small part of it??

(There are soooo many "good questions" why would TC pick a bogus one??)

 

Paul uses the same tricks.

2 Tim. 2:13

Is denial the same as rejection?

Is there degrees of faith? Romans 1:17


debtor to Free Grace,
Bro. Dallas </font>[/QUOTE]I don't see any connection between what you have given, and 2 Peter 2:1, which clearly teaches that Jesus also died for the non-elect.

 

So you're saying that Christ's payment for their sins, His "buying" them through His blood, is not enough, and that something more needs to be done? What more needs to be done? </font>[/QUOTE]What are you talking about? Can't you understand that everyone has to accept the work of Christ in order they are saved? Man is a responsible being, and will be held accountable for his actions, especially rejecting Jesus.

 

Those who do not accept God's free gift do not have faith, but they are just as covered by the blood of the Christ as the most righteous "saved" person. You see the Christ's Atonement is for SIN, because it is sin that prevents man from having everlasting life. However, since Jesus paid that penalty One time for ALL SIN with his innocent life, no man must pay that penalty, and every man has the opportunity to believe and thereby receive God's free gift of everlasting life (now that the penalty for sin has been paid).

God judges the faith of man not the sin of man because His son paid the penalty for sin and God forgives confessed sin! So sin is not a factor in our salvation! Faith first, then a repentant heart! = Salvation!

 

Why is man held accountable for actions for which Christ has already paid the penalty?

 

Why is man held accountable for actions for which Christ has already paid the penalty? </font>[/QUOTE]Because man will not accept what Christ as done. What if man rejects Christ's finished work in the Atonement? Then he will have to bear the penalty for their own sins.

 

So the unbeliever's sins are paid for twice?

 

So the unbeliever's sins are paid for twice? </font>[/QUOTE]Yes