ATS Board Meeting

[preachinjesus]

Word is that ATS will be meeting tomorrow and expanding their accreditation guidelines to include 100% online degrees for members.

So what say ye?

I'm fer it.

 

[Greektim]

Word is that ATS will be meeting tomorrow and expanding their accreditation guidelines to include 100% online degrees for members.

So what say ye?

I'm fer it.

That would be awesome!!! But I understand their hesitation.

 

[mont974x4]

My bride and I both earned our BA's entirely online. Her's was through University of Phoenix. I took some classes through them and can attest to the level of work involved. My BA is from Nazarene Bible College. A lot of work went into the classes. This was made harder for a 5 pointer attending an Arminian school. :lol

Keep in mind all schools have a variety of teachers and some are naturally easier on students than others. Just as there are a variety of students and some work harder than others.

 

[TCGreek]

Word is that ATS will be meeting tomorrow and expanding their accreditation guidelines to include 100% online degrees for members.

So what say ye?

I'm fer it.

Aye, me too.

 

[preachinjesus]

That would be awesome!!! But I understand their hesitation.

The resistance has been difficult to maintain but understandable. The online learning opportunities have been expanding rapidly and ATS has been one of the last accrediting bodies to enter the fray. Too much of online has been lax learning compared to on campus methods, though this is changing.

I'd be thrilled to see ATS move in a positive direction in this area. It would definitely help schools be able to integrate distance learning that is reputable and rigorous. Online/distance learning is the future of education.

Should be interesting to see how the meeting goes...and then what schools begin applying for ATS accreditation.

 

[mjohnson7]

Wow!! Did I feel the earth tremble?? Indeed, that would be good news!!

 

[Havensdad]

Wonder if my alma-mater, Liberty, will apply for ATS accreditation if this goes through?

 

[Broadus]

ATS has been brought kicking and screaming to accrediting fully online seminaries. Frankly, I think ATS has little choice if it wants to remain relevant.

 

[Crucified in Christ]

ATS has posted a PDF of the changes that they are making. They will not go into effect until June of 2013, but (if I am reading it correctly) it appears that fully online "Distance Education" will be accredited under a 19 point checklist of standardization.

 

[mjohnson7]

From the ATS Documents

Below is taken from the previous MDiv standards and the new ones after their meeting. They way I read it, it isn't a "slam dunk" for online degree programs, however it's certainly more favorable than the 2010 document.

2010 Degree Program Standards for MDiv

A.3.2 Location

A.3.2.1 MDiv education has a complex goal: the personal, vocational, spiritual, and academic formation of the student. Because of the importance of a comprehensive community of learning, the MDiv cannot be viewed simply as an accumulation of courses or of individual independent work. In order to ensure an appropriate educational community, at least one year of full-time academic study or its equivalent shall be completed at the main campus of the school awarding the degree or at an extension site of the institution that has been approved for MDiv degree-granting status.

A.3.2.2 If requirements can be completed in extension centers or by means of distance learning, the institution must be able to demonstrate how the community of learning, education for skills particular to this degree, and formational elements of the program are made available to students.

New (June 22, 2012) Degree Program Standards for MDiv

A.3.1 Location

A.3.1.1 MDiv education has a complex goal: the personal, vocational, spiritual, and academic formation of the student. Because of the importance of a comprehensive community of learning, the MDiv cannot be viewed simply as an accumulation of courses or of individual independent work. The location, or learning environment, can occur in multiple patterns that include, but are not limited to, in-person faculty-student instructional contact on a campus or extension site, online/technologically mediated forms of instruction, supervised ministry practice, and formats that blend instructional modalities. Institutions shall clearly articulate the manner in which they provide the learning environment or supportive context for effective, comprehensive, theological education. An institution shall demonstrate that its students are engaged in a community of learning whereby faculty and students have significant opportunities for interaction, peer learning, development of pastoral skills, supervised experiences of ministry, and growth in personal, spiritual formation.

A.3.1.2 The institution shall provide instruction in a manner and at locations that facilitate the achievement of stated degree-program learning outcomes, shall state the rationale for the location(s) or learning environment(s) utilized, and shall devise a suitable means of assessment for evaluating the effectiveness of its location(s) or learning environment(s) to ensure that its students achieve the learning outcomes stipulated for the MDiv degree program.

A.3.1.3 Because MDiv education expects regular and substantive student faculty interaction to achieve the stipulated learning outcomes, this interaction requires that at least one year of full-time academic study or its equivalent shall be completed at the main campus of the school awarding the degree or at an extension site of the institution that has been approved for MDiv degree-granting status. An exception may be granted if a school can demonstrate how its educational design and delivery system accomplishes the learning outcomes associated with residential theological study.

A.3.1.4 If an institution has Board approval for MDiv degree-program requirements to be completed in approved extension sites or by means of distance learning, the institution must be able to demonstrate how students access the community of learning, education for skills particular to this degree, and formational elements of the program.

A.3.1.5 Courses should be provided on the institution’s main campus, on an approved branch campus or approved extension site, or in an approved
distance education program that provides access to appropriate resources of faculty, library, and a community of learners pursuing a similar program of study.

A.3.1.6 A limited number of courses may be taken as independent study or directed research.

A.3.1.7 The institution shall have established procedures and policies regarding supervised ministry practice, independent study, and directed research. These procedures and policies shall indicate the means the institution uses to assess the educational effectiveness of these forms of education.

 

[Martin]

As the Ghostbusters said about the arrival of the Titanic in 1989..."better late than never." I took some time to read the document and it is certainly a change for the better. However some of the language is still a bit foggy so it will be interesting to see how seminaries respond to the change.

Martin.

 

[preachinjesus]

Thanks for all who have added thoughts and even the accepted wording.

I agree it's murky at best and I betcha it's that way for a reason. ATS isn't likely to begin accepting a bunch of new schools (Liberty, Grand Canyon, etc) but will probably allow this wording to expand current institutional offerings. They simply had to do this because they were threatened with institutional oblivion if they hadn't.

Several schools I know of we're at the point that they were going to walk on ATS if they didn't change. However, I think they've a got long road ahead of them. Lots of these schools have already lost ground to other institutions that got out first.

Well should be intriguing to see what happens. I think the SBC schools are prime candidates for expansion...fast expansion.

 

[Jack Matthews]

The key here is that ATS sets the standards, and the schools, whether they are on-line, or on campus, have to meet the standards. There is some fear, naturally, but the key word is still "standards." There are some online schools that will have to raise theirs if they want ATS approval, in the same way that a traditional campus would have to do if they were seeking accreditation.

Methods of delivering higher theological education are changing rapidly, and ATS has to keep up. This is a good thing.

 

[mjohnson7]

Any conjecture on which, if any, SBC seminaries (big 6) will be the first to move to a more distance friendly approach?

If I were a betting man.....and I am NOT.......I would put my money on Midwestern. They've already purposely found a way to circumvent the ATS with their offering of an MA thru Midwestern Baptist College, SBC (which doesn't have ATS accreditation). With financial issues always looming, I would offer up Midwestern as the first to dip its toe in the water.

Any thoughts?

 

[Broadus]

Midwestern would be my guess, too, though I wouldn't be surprised to see Southeastern and New Orleans do something more.

Bill

 

[Rhetorician]

Broadus Response

Midwestern would be my guess, too, though I wouldn't be surprised to see Southeastern and New Orleans do something more.

Bill

Hello my esteemed friend!!

Why Brother Broadus whatever do you mean? Is there some implication in your statement, dear brother, concerning those (our) beloved SBC institutions? LOL!! :smilewinkgrin:

This is said "tongue in cheek" as you well know.

"That is all!"

 

[Broadus]

Hello my esteemed friend!!

Why Brother Broadus whatever do you mean? Is there some implication in your statement, dear brother, concerning those (our) beloved SBC institutions? LOL!! :smilewinkgrin:

This is said "tongue in cheek" as you well know.

"That is all!"

We're not often on the cutting edge of technological change, are we? My guess is that our beloved SBTS will be the last to offer a complete online degree. I would gladly be proven wrong.

Bill

 

[Rhetorician]

We're not often on the cutting edge of technological change, are we? My guess is that our beloved SBTS will be the last to offer a complete online degree. I would gladly be proven wrong.

Bill

Bill,

Do you really want, or think that the workhorse MDiv degree would be worth anything if done outside of the community of scholars / students and without access to the Boyce Library?

I am just old school I guess?! I was the first to put a religion course on the Blackboard delivery system at our little college. And I want you to know that the student's work IS NOT as good as in class. This is just my little rant!!

I remember a little couplet ole Dr. Beaman at Mid America taught me many years ago:

Do not be the first by whom the new is tried--
Nor yet the last to lay the old aside.

I suppose I am the last of the old in some categories.

"That is all!" :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Broadus]

Bill,

Do you really want, or think that the workhorse MDiv degree would be worth anything if done outside of the community of scholars / students and without access to the Boyce Library?

I am just old school I guess?! I was the first to put a religion course on the Blackboard delivery system at our little college. And I want you to know that the student's work IS NOT as good as in class. This is just my little rant!!

I remember a little couplet ole Dr. Beaman at Mid America taught me many years ago:

Do not be the first by whom the new is tried--
Nor yet the last to lay the old aside.

I suppose I am the last of the old in some categories.

"That is all!" :smilewinkgrin:

Roger, I don't recall saying anything about the MDiv. An MA, though, as well as a BA from Boyce, is another story.

Bill

 

[Rhetorician]

Broadus Response

Roger, I don't recall saying anything about the MDiv. An MA, though, as well as a BA from Boyce, is another story.

Bill

Dear Brother:

When you mentioned the illustrious SBTS, I just "assumed" the seminary and the "work horse" degree of seminary education--the MDiv degree. For this mistake I beg your indulgence.

I tip my hat to your astute critical insight. I do appreciate your views and friendship. Be blest my brother!

"That is all!" raying: Praying for you.