Attention all sick pro-aborts

[Jefferson]

Have you seen the new General Electric commercial? You can view it at . . .
http://kgov.com/Gallery/choice/GEultrasound.rm

 

[AITB]

Are you allowed to call people 'sick' on this board simply for disagreeing with your beliefs?

 

[MissAbbyIFBaptist]

Are you saying you agree with the murder of innocent little babies?
I think abortion is terrible. We ought to do everything we can to stop it.
The 6th comandment was for us not to murder, and to kill a child inside or outside of the womb is murder.That child is alive and growing and maturing.
It is beyond me how a Christian could suport such an act!

{no, i am not trying to start a debate or discusion,I'm simply telling you my opinion with common sense and the Bible.}

 

[Lauren]

Let me say to start that I am against abortion. I used to not be. There are (at least) two sides to every story, right?
Why was abortion made legal in the first place? Because women were DYING getting ILLEGAL abortions. I am not trying to defend abortion but I do think the thread title was out of line if the idea was to try to change some minds about abortion. Most pro-abortionists would look at the title and not even open the thread due to being called "sick", its obviously a tirade aginst their rights by a fanatic, right?

The thread title , in my opinion, greviously detracted from the point of the thread. The commercial is wonderful, shows a couple lovingly looking on at their very human unborn child through a TV screen.

Pro-lifers, dont make yourselves look like fanatics by name calling, its like you are one or two steps from pulling guns on doctors at abortion clinics. Insulting people wont win them to the prolife side. Wheres the Christian love?

I used to be "pro choice". Many women have been injured or died from unsafe illegal abortion. Many women have had their path in life turned upside down due to unplanned pregnancy. It is truly sad. I had to think long and hard about the issue before I came to the conclusion that no matter how sad it is that women are inconvenienced or injured by becoming pregnant, the fact remains that a human life does begin at conception and once it begins why should it be worth less than a woman's ? a woman who made a CHOICE to have sex, knowing pregnancy is possible?(yes there are exceptions such as rape) When does a baby ever get a choice? once all that is worked out in the head, it becomes clear that killing an unborn child is indeed murder and in most cases of abortion it is not the womans life at risk so much as her convenience.

I can tell you, when I was of the "pro abortion" mindset, were you to call me "sick" for my opinion I would immediately stop repecting and listening to all of your opinions.

peace-L

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by Lauren:
Insulting people won't win them to the prolife side. Wheres the Christian love?

I can tell you, when I was of the "pro abortion" mindset, were you to call me "sick" for my opinion I would immediately stop respecting and listening to all of your opinions.

The pro-abortion industry is currently in a panic because 90% of the abortionists are very old and retiring and there are very few new young interns going into abortion. Why is this?

Is it because "loving" Christians gently "cooed" to them? Or is it because fanatics stygmatise their practice and cause social tension around their workplace and even protest at their homes so the young interns simply decide it would be much less of a hassle to become a dermitologist. And that's exactly what has been happening.

Again, which kind of Christian should be given the credit for creating this crisis in the pro-abortion industry? The credit (and therefore the eternal rewards handed out by God) will be given to the fanatics.

 

[Morat]

You know, this is the second or third forum I've encountered this thread on. Same title and post, exactly.

Odd.

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by Morat:
You know, this is the second or third forum I've encountered this thread on. Same title and post, exactly.

Odd.

On the Secular Web the thread with the same name and original post is now 10 pages long and still being posted on.

 

[Morat]

The people on the Secular web really like to argue. They generally seem to be good natured about it. Although the "Rants and Raves" forum isn't too indicative of it.

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by Morat:
The people on the Secular web really like to argue. They generally seem to be good natured about it. Although the "Rants and Raves" forum isn't too indicative of it.

The original poster interacts a lot on that thread, on the Secular Web, so it's not just other people having back-and-forths about his (?) original post.

Thanks for saying they generally seem good-natured about it. Evidently you see them more the way I do than those who responded on my 'disappointed' thread (in All Other Discussion, here) seem to.

 

[Mike McK]

Love the commercial.

I've never met anyone yet who was persuaded by name calling, though.

Mike

 

[Charlie]

Lauren wrote:

Why was abortion made legal in the first place? Because women were DYING getting ILLEGAL abortions.

Could you list you sources that say the reason for legal abortions were to keep women from dying from illegal abortions?

Also, could you tell me how many women actually died from illegal abortions? (With sources listed?)

Thanks,

Charlie

[ June 09, 2002, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: Charlie ]

 

[Don]

Or is it because fanatics stygmatise their practice and cause social tension around their workplace and even protest at their homes so the young interns simply decide it would be much less of a hassle to become a dermitologist.

Isn't it interesting how in the last days, we'll call what's wrong "right," and what's right "wrong"?

For instance, it's wrong to kill an unborn human being; there's no argument about that at all.

But is it wrong to stigmatize people and cause them social tension?

Jesus didn't make people feel comfortable; He took them out of their comfort zone, and told them they were sinners who needed to repent and seek God.

But did He stigmatize them and cause them social tension until they repented and sought God?

No. He came; He taught; He went on to the next crowd.

I'm not asking anyone that silly question, "what would Jesus do?" I'm asking a very serious question: What makes us think that Jesus would use or condone the tactics that we justify?

Should we all be getting off our butts and doing something about abortion? You betcha.

But does that mean that we present Christ and the Bible as a gospel of hate and "ruining people's lives is okay if it saves a life"?

Remember, folks: Jefferson also admitted to everyone on this board a few months back that he wouldn't hesitate to lie if he thought it would further the cause of christ--something Christ didn't do, didn't teach, and didn't advocate, and neither did His apostles.

Jeff, I took the liberty of sending an e-mail to GE, inquiring if KGOV is using this commercial with permission. There's this little thing called "copyright infringement," which means that if y'all just lifted this video from their site (very easy to do; I checked it out at the GE Medical site, and when you click on the link, you have the option of saving it to your computer) and are using it beyond the purvue of its original intention (which you are, as its an advertisement for GE's latest ultrsound equipment, not a pro-life statement--which y'all have turned it into), then they might be interested in talking to y'all...on the other hand, they're probably just as happy that the GE brand name is getting out and about....

Luke 9:51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.

----------

LAUREN, you stated that one of the major reasons for making abortion legal was that women were dying from illegal abortions.

Sorry to tell you this, but women are still dying...from legal abortions....

[ June 09, 2002, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

[Jefferson]

Still waiting for an answer to my question:

Which kind of Christian should be given the credit for creating this crisis in the pro-abortion industry? The "nice" "respectable" Christians, or us fanatics?

 

[Walguy]

Jesus didn't make people feel comfortable; He took them out of their comfort zone, and told them they were sinners who needed to repent and seek God.
But did He stigmatize them and cause them social tension until they repented and sought God?
No. He came; He taught; He went on to the next crowd.

"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in.
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you traverse sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.
Woe to you, blind guides, who say, `If any one swears by the temple, it is nothing; but if any one swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? And you say, `If any one swears by the altar, it is nothing; but if any one swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.' You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? So he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by everything on it; and he who swears by the temple, swears by it and by him who dwells in it; and he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of extortion and rapacity. You blind Pharisee! first cleanse the inside of the cup and of the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, saying, `If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' Thus you witness against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.
You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechari'ah the son of Barachi'ah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all this will come upon this generation." (Matthew 23:13-36)

And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who sold and those who bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons; and he would not allow any one to carry anything through the temple. And he taught, and said to them, "Is it not written, `My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations'? But you have made it a den of robbers." (Mark 11:15-17)

While Jesus was loving to most people, He wasn't afraid to confront evil directly. Can there be any doubt that Jesus desired to 'stigmatize' the scribes and Pharisees? Indeed, he caused them so much 'social tension' that they felt compelled to have Him killed. And he used both verbal and physical means to do it.
So, the What Would Jesus Do argument you raise isn't really valid.
The real questions on this issue are: is abortion a sufficient evil to warrant this kind of action? And, even more importantly: if so, which tactics are acceptable to use, and which are not?
Peacefully picketing the offices and homes of abortion doctors seem to me to be completely legitimate. Making threats of violence obviously would not qualify as acceptable. The line falls somewhere in between, and exactly where it ought to be should be the subject of ongoing discussions between all factions of the Pro-life movement.

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by Jefferson:
Still waiting for an answer to my question:

Which kind of Christian should be given the credit for creating this crisis in the pro-abortion industry? The "nice" "respectable" Christians, or us fanatics?

Was it you who posted the same thread as this on the Secular Web, writing this there:

Have you ever seen that one bumper sticker that homos put on their cars that have the colors of a rainbow and say, "Celebrate Diversity"? Well, I've got some that look EXACTLY like it - rainbow colors and all - except the words say, "Eliminate Perversity." Since the stickers look so much alike, the homos wind up driving around with them on their bumpers for months before they finally notice the difference. What a hoot! Boy it's fun to be a Christian!

Or was that someone else?

I don't think that most Christians find being a Christian fun for the same reason you do, with all due respect...

 

[Don]

Walguy,

I stick with what I said. Look at Matthew 24:1. Jesus preached, and then He left. You'll also notice who He addressed these words to: the scribes and Pharisees (i.e., the religious leaders, not the common man).

Peaceful protests? I'm all for it.

Shouting at people that they're baby murderers? hmmm....

Taking pictures of women going into abortion clinics, and then posting those women's pictures on the internet? hmmmm....

Taking pictures of abortion doctors, and posting them as "Wanted: Dead or Alive" posters on the internet? hmmm....

How about the recent extradition from France of the guy who murdered an abortion doctor? Did you catch the terms of that extradition? We can't give the guy the death penalty.

Let's make sure we understand this: The guy stands outside the abortion doctor's home, aims a rifle at the abortion doctor who's sitting inside the home in a chair, and kills him. Sounds like premeditated murder to me. But what does this guy do? Runs to another country. He passes and executes the sentence of death on an abortion doctor, but when it's his turn, we're not allowed to pass a sentence of death on him. Somewhat ronic, ain't it?

Jefferson wants to know if Christians who terrorize should get the credit for a decreasing amount of abortion doctors. The abortion industry recognizes that some doctors are scared off by those tactics (www.ms4c.org/shortage.shtml).

But then you have statements like this: "Dr. Warren Hern of Boulder, Colo. bemoans the fact that he's no longer one of a small handful of abortionists who perform second and third trimester abortions; today, dozens of doctors do. "The competition for patients is absolutely ruthless," Hern complains." (http://www.boundless.org/2000/features/a0000382.html) Dr. Hern seems to believe the problem is with the decreasing amount of abortions, not the lack of abortion doctors.

And statements like this: "Another major factor was the dramatic decline in the number of medical schools and residencies offering abortion training." (http://www.wcla.org/95-spring/sp95-71.html)

The result? In the articles I found, the biggest "answer" to the abortion doctor industry was to make abortion training mandatory in medical courses. This would just make things even worse for Dr. Hern, wouldn't it?

Keep educating the public. The #1 thing I hear from men and women who support abortion? "It's only a clump of tissue, like a vestigial organ." When you can convince them otherwise, I've often found a change of heart.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by AITB:

Was it you who posted the same thread as this on the Secular Web, writing this there:

Have you ever seen that one bumper sticker that homos put on their cars that have the colors of a rainbow and say, "Celebrate Diversity"? Well, I've got some that look EXACTLY like it - rainbow colors and all - except the words say, "Eliminate Perversity." Since the stickers look so much alike, the homos wind up driving around with them on their bumpers for months before they finally notice the difference. What a hoot! Boy it's fun to be a Christian!

Or was that someone else?

Yep. That was me. Man, I have a lot of fun!

I don't think that most Christians find being a Christian fun for the same reason you do, with all due respect...

That's because most Christians worship "being liked" more than they worship Jesus Christ.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by Don:
Peaceful protests? I'm all for it.

Shouting at people that they're baby murderers? hmmm....

Taking pictures of women going into abortion clinics, and then posting those women's pictures on the internet? hmmmm....

Taking pictures of abortion doctors, and posting them as "Wanted: Dead or Alive" posters on the internet? hmmm....

How about what I did last summer? On Saturdays I set up a billboard on the #1 busiest road in my town. It was an 8 foot by 4 foot full-color bloody photograph of an aborted baby. (The picture of "baby Malachi" if you're familiar with it) A second billboard of the same size was located several yards in front of it that read, "Kinda looks like MURDER doesn't it? It IS murder. It's ABORTION!" Needless to say I spent most every Saturday engaged in nose to nose screaming matches. Man, that was fun. It ended when some attorney in town (who is supposed to be a professional debater) ran out of arguments and ripped the picture from end to end, destroying it.

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by Jefferson:
Needless to say I spent most every Saturday engaged in nose to nose screaming matches. Man, that was fun.

I don't think screaming matches are fun.

And in spite of what you wrote, it's not because I "worship 'being liked' more than I worship Jesus Christ".

I believe there are other reasons.

[ June 11, 2002, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]

 

[Don]

David, a man after God's own heart:
Psalms 34:14 Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.

Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles:
Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Ephesians 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

Jesus, the Son of God:
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

[ June 11, 2002, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Don ]