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Attention all sick pro-aborts
- Thread starter Jefferson
- Start date
To all:
Jesus promised his followers, "you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended" (Mat. 24:9-10).
Jesus also taught:
John 15:18 If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
John 17:14 I have given them Your Word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Mat. 10:22 And you will be hated of all men for My name's sake, but the one who endures to the end shall be kept safe.
Luke 21:17 And you shall be hated by all for My name's sake.
Today Christians think if the world hates them, they have failed. But the opposite is true.
Ask yourselves: Does anyone hate you? Anyone at all? If not, why not? Are you compromising at the point where it will make you unpopular?
Jesus promised his followers, "you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended" (Mat. 24:9-10).
Jesus also taught:
John 15:18 If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
John 17:14 I have given them Your Word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Mat. 10:22 And you will be hated of all men for My name's sake, but the one who endures to the end shall be kept safe.
Luke 21:17 And you shall be hated by all for My name's sake.
Today Christians think if the world hates them, they have failed. But the opposite is true.
Ask yourselves: Does anyone hate you? Anyone at all? If not, why not? Are you compromising at the point where it will make you unpopular?
Jefferson, I've run out of responses to you that I'd be comfortable posting here - and/or that would be allowed - and/or wouldn't get me banned.
Except one:
I'm not sure there's value in me posting more on this thread but - I may. We'll see.
[ June 13, 2002, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]
Except one:
I have a fair guess how you'll respond - you'll likely say that it's not loving not to rebuke sinners. Therefore you are showing them love. Unlike all those 'compromisers' who won't say what makes them unpopular.
I'm not sure there's value in me posting more on this thread but - I may. We'll see.
[ June 13, 2002, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]
The problem here is that you ain't talking to the world. You are talking with Christians.
Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
The problem here is that you ain't talking to the world. You are talking with Christians.
Perhaps he thinks that's a good test of whether we are true Christians or not - i.e. whether we agree with him. If not maybe he thinks we're all fakes.
The problem here is that you ain't talking to the world. You are talking with Christians.
Perhaps he thinks that's a good test of whether we are true Christians or not - i.e. whether we agree with him. If not maybe he thinks we're all fakes.
Mr. Curtis, I might add that we're not to go out and make them hate us....
What Jefferson is implying is that if you haven't caused someone to hate you today, then your Christianity should be questioned.
The hate Jefferson is talking about is a natural derivative. It's the same as the people shouting to have Christ crucified. What did Jesus do to cause them to hate Him? Hint: They didn't hate Him because He purposely went out and screamed in their faces....
I'm "hated" by most of my co-workers. I refuse to do worldly things with them, like visit the club after work, and I refuse to allow them to continue with language, low-brow jokes, etc. For this reason, I'm not one of the most popular guys in the work area.
But somehow, I don't think that's good enough for Jeff....
I'd like to point out that I offered Jefferson about eight or so verses that said, in a nutshell, be peaceful. One of the fruits of the spirit is peace. How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the Gospel of peace. etc., etc.
He still has yet to explain how these statements reconcile with his "fun screaming matches."
[ June 13, 2002, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: Don ]
What Jefferson is implying is that if you haven't caused someone to hate you today, then your Christianity should be questioned.
The hate Jefferson is talking about is a natural derivative. It's the same as the people shouting to have Christ crucified. What did Jesus do to cause them to hate Him? Hint: They didn't hate Him because He purposely went out and screamed in their faces....
I'm "hated" by most of my co-workers. I refuse to do worldly things with them, like visit the club after work, and I refuse to allow them to continue with language, low-brow jokes, etc. For this reason, I'm not one of the most popular guys in the work area.
But somehow, I don't think that's good enough for Jeff....
I'd like to point out that I offered Jefferson about eight or so verses that said, in a nutshell, be peaceful. One of the fruits of the spirit is peace. How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the Gospel of peace. etc., etc.
He still has yet to explain how these statements reconcile with his "fun screaming matches."
[ June 13, 2002, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: Don ]
Originally posted by Don:
He still has yet to explain how these statements reconcile with his "fun screaming matches."
This is what I have noticed...
His verses [plus his application of them] are the same ones that atheists use to object to the Bible and his behavior is what atheists object to as in, "How can that be godly behavior?"
He targets remarkably precisely what incenses non-Christians. He definitely knows what they hate the most. He's certainly the person to listen to, for anyone who wants to know how to be unpopular with them
[ June 13, 2002, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]
He still has yet to explain how these statements reconcile with his "fun screaming matches."
This is what I have noticed...
His verses [plus his application of them] are the same ones that atheists use to object to the Bible and his behavior is what atheists object to as in, "How can that be godly behavior?"
He targets remarkably precisely what incenses non-Christians. He definitely knows what they hate the most. He's certainly the person to listen to, for anyone who wants to know how to be unpopular with them
[ June 13, 2002, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]
Don:
Regarding your verses on "peace" which were Psalms 34:14, Romans 10:15, Romans 12:17, Romans 14:19, 2 Corinthians 13:11, Galatians 5:22, Ephesians 6:15 and Matthew 5:9: I remember a long time ago John MacArthur talking about the Bible's definition of "peace." I remember him saying it had very little similarity to our english usage. He said when the Bible uses the word "peace" it has to do with the peace that a victor receives after conquering his enemy. After reading your post I decided to verified this by checking with "Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Bible Theology." Sure enough, under "peace" it says, "In English, the word "peace" conjures up a passive picture, one showing an absence of civil disturbance or hostilities, or a personality free from internal and external strife. The biblical concept of peace is larger than that and rests heavily on the Hebrew root "sim", which means "to be complete" or "to be sound" . . . "salom" as victory over one's enemies or absence of war."
Regarding the word "strife" in Romans 13;13, Galatians 5:19 and 2 Timothy 2:24: the first verse you quoted (Romans 13:13) answers the question.
Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Notice how rioting is paired with drunkenness. Rioting is caused by drunkenness. Wantonness (ie. lewdness) is paired with chambering (ie. lust) Lewdness is caused by lust. And finally, strife is paired with envying. Therefore this verse defines "strife" as that which is caused by envying. Since I don't envy child murderers, these verses on strife don't apply to my situation.
[ June 13, 2002, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Jefferson ]
Regarding your verses on "peace" which were Psalms 34:14, Romans 10:15, Romans 12:17, Romans 14:19, 2 Corinthians 13:11, Galatians 5:22, Ephesians 6:15 and Matthew 5:9: I remember a long time ago John MacArthur talking about the Bible's definition of "peace." I remember him saying it had very little similarity to our english usage. He said when the Bible uses the word "peace" it has to do with the peace that a victor receives after conquering his enemy. After reading your post I decided to verified this by checking with "Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Bible Theology." Sure enough, under "peace" it says, "In English, the word "peace" conjures up a passive picture, one showing an absence of civil disturbance or hostilities, or a personality free from internal and external strife. The biblical concept of peace is larger than that and rests heavily on the Hebrew root "sim", which means "to be complete" or "to be sound" . . . "salom" as victory over one's enemies or absence of war."
Regarding the word "strife" in Romans 13;13, Galatians 5:19 and 2 Timothy 2:24: the first verse you quoted (Romans 13:13) answers the question.
Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Notice how rioting is paired with drunkenness. Rioting is caused by drunkenness. Wantonness (ie. lewdness) is paired with chambering (ie. lust) Lewdness is caused by lust. And finally, strife is paired with envying. Therefore this verse defines "strife" as that which is caused by envying. Since I don't envy child murderers, these verses on strife don't apply to my situation.
[ June 13, 2002, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Jefferson ]
But we are supposed to love without hypocrisy by hating evil according to Romans 12:9: "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil."
How do you love without hypocrisy?</font>[/QUOTE]That's easy. By not being a hypocrite.
I'm not a hypocrite so my love is without hypocrisy.
Which is just as well given what this passage implies about hypocrites:
Matt 24:48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, `My master is staying away a long time,' 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Don, you wrote:
"And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus."
Matthew Henry's word study on this verse reads as follows: "Act 15:39 - And there was a sharp contention - Literally, a paroxysm, or fit of a fever."
[ June 13, 2002, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: Jefferson ]
Such as the fleshly desire to be "liked" by everyone?
You call murder a mere "fault?"
Acts 15:39 shows that meekness is not commanded for every single possible situation we will ever encounter.
"And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus."
Matthew Henry's word study on this verse reads as follows: "Act 15:39 - And there was a sharp contention - Literally, a paroxysm, or fit of a fever."
[ June 13, 2002, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: Jefferson ]
Absolutely!
Well, to be clear, I do express it often but I wouldn't say that I believe I am always called to express it all the time in all ways, wherever I am. It's more like, whenever I believe the Holy Spirit is leading me to speak against evil I dare not say 'no'.
But that isn't every moment of the day because I have a bunch of God-given responsibilities and God never told me I was allowed to forsake all the rest so I could take up more full-time expressing of my abhorrence of evil.
So, it's as He leads.
This is exactly what I meant about taking a word out of context and twisting its meaning.
Jefferson offers us the Hebrew word "sim," and offers it up as an explanation for the concept of peace I proffered.
Two things wrong with that, Jeff:
1) The verses I offered were written in Greek, not Hebrew. The word used in Romans 10:15, for instance, is from the primary verb "eiro," which means "rest or quietness"; Strong's shows it as "peace between individuals" and "of the Messiah’s peace" (salvation).
It's the same word in Galatians 5:22, as well as Ephesians 6:15 AND Matthew 5:9.
So try again, daddy-o.
2) Let's say we let you get away with that extremely poor explanation, and agree with you that we're talking about the peace that comes after victory.
Are you saying that you don't have the peace that comes after the victory? That Christ didn't win the victory for us with His sacrifice on the cross?
Because I thought that was the purpose of the Bible, after all: Telling us the story of the victory of God over Satan through the blood sacrifice on Calvary, and our participation in that victory by accepting Christ as our Lord and Savior....
Just me, but I thought that's what it was saying....
Don:
Have you ever heard of "the principle of first usage?" The understanding of a word or phrase or figure of speech should come from the first time it is used in the bible. If I'm not mistaken, the old testament comes before the new testament. Even though there is no english word that means "peace after a conflict," we should still understand salom to mean exactly that. By the same token, the Biblical meaning of peace was established before the New Testament was written. There is no Greek word for peace after a conflict just as there is no english word for peace after a conflict. So what? The principle of first usage has defined the word "peace" in advance for us even if the New Testament were written in Chinese.
[ June 14, 2002, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: Jefferson ]
Have you ever heard of "the principle of first usage?" The understanding of a word or phrase or figure of speech should come from the first time it is used in the bible. If I'm not mistaken, the old testament comes before the new testament. Even though there is no english word that means "peace after a conflict," we should still understand salom to mean exactly that. By the same token, the Biblical meaning of peace was established before the New Testament was written. There is no Greek word for peace after a conflict just as there is no english word for peace after a conflict. So what? The principle of first usage has defined the word "peace" in advance for us even if the New Testament were written in Chinese.
[ June 14, 2002, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: Jefferson ]