Attitutudinal Issues

It is not "my" view or "my" judgment. I don't know if you are a Pharisee or not. Don't care. I am simply saying that the term "fundamentalist" carries with it a certain perception whether you like it or not or whether it describes you are not.

If I come on the Baptist Board and say "I am a Calvinist" you will make certain assumptions about me that may or may not be true, but it would be foolish for me to say "I am a Calvinist but don't assume I believe in election". One implies the other. That's why if I do not believe in election, I probably need to find a new "label". The same is true with "fundamentalist".

And that has nothing to do with being judgmental.

 

Come on. You know better than this.

Hate and rejection were not the only characteristics of the religious fundamentalist. That is not what I am talking about and you know it.

By the way I am glad you are at least willing to admit the Pharisees were the "religious fundamentalists" of their day. Many fundies deny that elephant in the room.

 

I never thought I would see the day when Bible fundamentalists would need to be defending themselves from other Christians.

The tables have indeed turned.

No true fundamentalist holds to a system of religious legalism and man-made ritualism and traditions. Some quasi-fundamentalists might.

View me as you will - I am a Bible fundamentalist, not a "fundy" which we all know is intended to be a derogatory term. I am not ashamed to wear that title.

 

Your choice but don't be offended by the stereotypical assumptions the title carries with it.

 

Come on. You know better than this.

Hate and rejection were not the only characteristics of the religious fundamentalist. That is not what I am talking about and you know it.

By the way I am glad you are at least willing to admit the Pharisees were the "religious fundamentalists" of their day. Many fundies deny that elephant in the room. </font>[/QUOTE]The implication of your question was that since Jesus was critical of and even mocked the Pharisees of his day, and some IFBs are legalistic like the Pharisees were, then we are permitted, yea even commanded, to be critical of and even mock IFBs.

But I pointed out that a more important characteristic of the Pharisees was their hatred and rejection of Christ, and so it would follow from your implication that we are permitted, yea even commanded, to be critical of and even mock the unbeliever. Is that how we should treat the unbeliever - the same way you imply we should treat legalist IFBs?

Bottom line is we are to love our enemy (the unbeliever), and we are to love even moreso the brethern (yes, that includes those wretched IFBs).

Get over your bitterness and condecsension, AAG.

 

Your choice but don't be offended by the stereotypical assumptions the title carries with it. </font>[/QUOTE]I will not be offended by the false assumptions and prejudicial opinions of my brothers in Christ. True Christians are not so easily offended by those who refuse to understand the reality of our views.

As I have been saying all along, it appears that fundamentalists have no monopoly on having an attitude.

 

Go C4K! Go!

 

I hope Christ-like and loving fundamentalists can recapture that label from what I consider to be the majority of fundamentalism. This is an uphill battle though, especially with the way the word has entered the mainstream and been applied to different groups entirely (ie islamic fundamentalists, fundamentalist atheism) as a purely derogatory term.

 

Actually it runs much deeper and broader than "brothers in Christ" ... which would be my primary concern with the fundamentalist image.

While I could care less about what the average Baptist thinks about me, I do care deeply about what image of Christ I portray to the hellbounders around me.

I can agree with that. At the same time I also know it is difficult to call a spade what it is without coming across as abrasive.

Here my loud and clear: I love all the fam (those to the left of me and those to the right of me) ... even those KJV-carrying, coulotte-wearing, Christian bubble-creating, Southern Gospel-listening, 1-2-3 pray after me-promoting, bus-driving, tie-wearing, pastor-worshipping, screaming fundies who disowned me and call me a liberal heretic.

I honestly have no ill will toward them. They make me laugh. As a matter of fact, I have not even thought about them in a long time until I wandered onto the Fundamentalist Forum. I hope God uses them (and me) to reach many people for the kingdom inspite of our weaknesses.

For it is all about grace.

 

With this sentiment I am in agreement, except possibly the word "majority". I know a great many loving, Christ-like fundamentalists.

Generally though, I agree.

Whoops, with the pevious post, obviously .

Reply to Grace -

Many of my fundementalists brethren consider me a liberal, some might even call me a heretic, but I won't surrender my name to them. I am saddened that your paintbrush so broad that you can't see that all fundamentalists are not like those who have offended you.

 

Andy T ...



You imply too much ... See my above post ... I will love those who stand to the right of me and I will critique them as fervently as I do those to the left...no bitterness here. Just Grace

 

Let me see where I fit

KJV-carrying, - most of the time
coulotte-wearing, - never
Christian bubble-creating, - not sure, but I don't think this is me
Southern Gospel-listening, - it all depends on which group
1-2-3 pray after me-promoting, - not me
bus-driving, - nope
tie-wearing, - Sunday mornings
pastor-worshipping, - nope (ask my pastor )
screaming fundies - nope
who disowned me and call me a liberal heretic - and I wouldn't do that to a brother in Christ who differed with me on the incidentals

 

I know fundies come in all forms. I don't lump them together. Some of my best friends have been flaming fundies...not the point.

Your "name" has been surrendered to them whether you like it or not. Ask any average believer or unbeliever what their perception of a fundamentalist is and you will see that the name has already been taken.

 

I'll put up with the "shame" that goes with being called a fundamentalist.

Most reasonable folk realise you can't paint us all with one brush.

 

Now let me ask you ... do you think the average fundamentalist has the same "love the brethren" attitude prescribed above for the ... NLT carrying, tattoo-sporting, U2 listening, alcohol drinking, blue jean - shirt tail out, earring wearing, facial haired Gen X, seeker-sensitive conversationalist who sits on a stool when we talk and use movie clips and videos to illustrate biblical truth?

 

I would hope he has the proper "love the brethren" attitude.

Diagreeing with his methods and choices does not equal hatred.

 

Not quite the gist of my question ... do you think the average fundamentalist responds in Christian love toward the person described above?

Be careful how you answer ... I have heard this not-so-fictional character serve as the content for more than one fundy "sermon".

My point exactly.

 

All About Grace wrote:
"bapmom,

Again we can agree to disagree.

Honest question for you: do you find something wrong with the fact your website claims you have had 53,800+ professions of faith and 16,000 baptisms in the last decade?

I am sure that with that many people coming to Christ your church must be running 18,000+ on an average Sunday (that is assuming only 1/3 of those professions "stuck").

I know I am walking on shaky ground here in certain brands of fundamentalism, but I just want to know your honest opinion about these numbers. It is a bit frightening to me."
__________________________________________________

(for some reason the quote option is gone at the top of the posts for me.....but Ive tried.


Now, let me address this a little bit. Especially since others here feel this is a fair question, and I can't fault anyone for that. Im not sure why the webmaster said "the last decade", but our church has been in existence for over 30 years. I do know the man, though, and if you all feel like you need me to I can go ask him about it tomorrow. Maybe we've only been keeping records for a decade.

Otherwise, I can tell you that for quite awhile we were running upwards of 800, not including our bus kids (though I don't know why we can't include them.) However, about 8 years ago we had a church split, and we almost went under. Times were very hard, but God has blessed, and now hopefully there are TWO good churches in our area rather than just one. (Actually there are more than just our two churches of course, but please bear with me as Im only speaking of what happened at MY church.)

ANd yes, C4K, we very often have weeks where we see upwards of 100 saved....but we have 5 different soul winning times each week, and several older people who devote huge amounts of their free time just passing out tracts on the street and telling people the gospel. Each one of these gets turned in as convert slips and we go visit them later. We try very hard to keep up with disciplship, and actually lately it has been a big emphasis. You are very right in that we don't see all the results we'd like to see. Remember too, Billy Graham gave up on our city after 3 days, saying Milwaukee was enslaved to alcohol. He was right, too. So yes, many people make professions and yet continue to struggle in their addiction. We now have our Reformers Unanimous program going to provide more help in that area.

We have many kids who have over the years gone through our school and graduated and moved away.

Should I feel safe enough here now to admit that in the past there have been people in our soul winning groups who just try for the name on the convert slip? I'll admit to being pretty sure that that goes on sometimes. It's a burden that I carry daily, believe me. I struggle each week before my own time for going out.....I do not want to fall into that trap. But I can also tell you that I personally know that those who fill out those slips are visited each week, and there are many who do come to church. Actually most of those people who might have been guilty of pushing for a quick decision were the ones "weeded out" in the split.

I think one thing about this is, we have a very active bus ministry. We see MANY children come through, and many of them get saved. However, they don't always have the choice of whether or not they continue to come. They also mostly come from the very poor side of town...not sure how else to describe it. But many times the only way they have of getting to our church is on our bus. THere are churches closer over there that they often wind up in as they grow older.

Those are my reasonings behind this. There might be more, better ones even....not sure. But I can tell you that our preacher is NOT teaching a 1-2-3-pray after me method. We just work hard, and meet a whole lot of people.

 

Amen! Furthermore, it's really a shame that this forum, in particular, has become a place of bashing of fundamentalists. The original purpose for establishing this forum was so fundamentalists could have a zone on this Board that was bash-free.


From the Forum Rules:

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/48/649.html

 

I agree completely, Lady Eagle. I thought the original post was legitimate and should be discussed by us fundamentalists. But some who are posting on this thread do not seem to be fundamentalists.