Author of Hebrews

[Greektim]

The bible does not say and there is no way to know.

Do you have the same attitude for the 4 gospel accounts?

 

[Revmitchell]

Do you have the same attitude for the 4 gospel accounts?

A rather odd question.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Because it is a sermon by Paul penned by Luke.

I've heard that as a speculation also, but I have to go to the content of the book, and it is not Paul's theology.

You should know that Origen actually talked about Hebrews as if Paul was the author (speaker). And he may have meant "wrote" in the sense of recorded instead of authored. This short article by David Alan Black is quite enlightening if you are willing to learn:

His viewpoint has a lot of validity, but he ignores a great deal of scholarship, such as this summarized in The Oxford Companion to the Bible:

The identity of the author of Hebrews is not known. Allusions in Clement of Rome's letter to the Corinthians attest to the authoritative status of Hebrews before the end of the first century. Presumably Clement knew who the author was. Later on, however, questions regarding the authorship of the letter contributed to the general neglect it suffered in western or Latin Christianity. Jerome's acceptance of the work as coming from the pen of Paul, and in particular the title "The Epistle of Paul to the Hebrews" in the Vulgate, was mainly responsible for the belief, unquestioned for more than a thousand years, it its Pauline authorship. But there are adequate reasons for rejecting Paul as its author. First, the writer's style is different from Paul's; second, the issue seems to be settled by his assertion that he (together, apparently, with his readers) received the gospel from those who heard the Lord Personal Note: I had forgotten this argument, but the writer of Hebrews, indeed, states that he was not privileged to have had first-hand experience at Christ's feet, or with His teaching. That would disqualify Paul. (2.3).

Of many conjectures that have been offered, there are but two that merit serious consideration. The author was clearly a person in a position of leadership in the apostolic church, intellectually distinguished, theologically mature, and with a profound knowledge of the Bible; two candidates mentioned in the New Testament who meet these criteria are Barnabas and Apollos, both of whom were Jewish Christians.

 

[Revmitchell]

I've heard that as a speculation also, but I have to go to the content of the book, and it is not Paul's theology.

It is every bit Paul's theology.

 

[Van]

An early historian wrote "only the Lord knows for sure." Dr. Wallace votes in favor of Barnabas and Apollos, because of the use of we and us. Also during Paul's life, as far as we know, Timothy was not in jail.

 

[Greektim]

I've heard that as a speculation also, but I have to go to the content of the book, and it is not Paul's theology.His viewpoint has a lot of validity, but he ignores a great deal of scholarship, such as this summarized in The Oxford Companion to the Bible:

I just wanted to see that your points on Origen were mistaken. And as Van continues the mistake of abusing Origen's quote, since it is likely referring to whoever recorded or at least the amanuensis of Hebrews but not the author/speaker, I thought it would be good to see what Origen actually said. Therefore, the "God only knows" bit needs to stop.

As for it not being Paul's theology.... wow! This is the same stuff German higher critics use to discount a lot of his epistles as legitimately Pauline. I think it fits the theology of Paul quite well.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I just wanted to see that your points on Origen were mistaken.

But they're not. Origen was equivocal about who wrote Hebrews for most of his ministry, and never definitively said who wrote it.

And as Van continues the mistake of abusing Origen's quote, since it is likely referring to whoever recorded or at least the amanuensis of Hebrews but not the author/speaker, I thought it would be good to see what Origen actually said. Therefore, the "God only knows" bit needs to stop.

Actually, it is clear from your own linked article that Origen didn't believe Paul wrote it.

But as for myself, if I were to state my own opinion, I should say that the thoughts are the apostle’s, but that the style and composition belonged to one who called to mind the apostle’s teachings and, as it were, made short notes of what his master said.

That doesn't sound like a man convinced Paul wrote Hebrews.

As for it not being Paul's theology.... wow! This is the same stuff German higher critics use to discount a lot of his epistles as legitimately Pauline. I think it fits the theology of Paul quite well.

Not at all. Well, to be fair, it is not something Paul would not say, but it also is not what Paul emphasized in his ministry, which as I said earlier is the grace of God through Christ. The writer of Hebrews emphasizes the preeminence of Christ, and while Paul touched on that in some of his other writings, never did he go into the detail, nor show the depth of study the epistle shows. And why would he switch to the Septuagint from the Masoretic Text for just this one epistle? And why would Paul claim not to have experienced the physical presence and teaching of Christ?

 

[John of Japan]

I believe Paul wrote the book of Hebrews. If Paul didn't write it, Barnabas did. If Barnabas didn't write it, Apollos did. If Apollos didn't write it, John R. Rice did. :type:

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I believe Paul wrote the book of Hebrews. If Paul didn't write it, Barnabas did. If Barnabas didn't write it, Apollos did. If Apollos didn't write it, John R. Rice did. :type:

And if he didn't, you did. :laugh:

 

[John of Japan]

And if he didn't, you did. :laugh:

Hey, how old do you think I am, anyways??

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Hey, how old do you think I am, anyways??

Oh, sorry. OK, I wrote it if John R. Rice didn't. How's that? :laugh:

 

[John of Japan]

Oh, sorry. OK, I wrote it if John R. Rice didn't. How's that? :laugh:

Aha! I knew it! Your screen name shows an unusual knowledge of a certain Greek phrase in the original which could have been written only by someone with a native knowledge of koine Greek. :thumbsup:

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Aha! I knew it! Your screen name shows an unusual knowledge of a certain Greek phrase in the original which could have been written only by someone with a native knowledge of koine Greek. :thumbsup:

Drat! You figured out my secret, that I'm a direct descendant of the first-century Pella inventor (the city, not the windows), Alexandrus Grahamus Belli, who developed the disconnected number fully 18-1/2 centuries before our only common branch in the family tree, ol' Alex from Philly, developed a system that could use it.

 

[John of Japan]

Drat! You figured out my secret, that I'm a direct descendant of the first-century Pella inventor (the city, not the windows), Alexandrus Grahamus Belli, who developed the disconnected number fully 18-1/2 centuries before our only common branch in the family tree, ol' Alex from Philly, developed a system that could use it.

Careful. If you reveal any more secrets, remember--this is THE INTERNET!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Careful. If you reveal any more secrets, remember--this is THE INTERNET!

What was I thinking??

:laugh:

 

[HankD]

In my 1611 reproduction of the KJV it says this in the superscription of the Book of Hebrews:

THE EPISTLE OF PAVL
the apoftle to the Hebrewes

That should settle it!

...just kiddin', but that is indeed what it says.


HankD

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

In my 1611 reproduction of the KJV it says this in the superscription of the Book of Hebrews:

THE EPISTLE OF PAVL
the apoftle to the Hebrewes

That should settle it!

...just kiddin', but that is indeed what it says.


HankD

That's because Jerome pronounced him as the author, and it was left to stand mostly undisputed for 1,000 years.

 

[HankD]

That's because Jerome pronounced him as the author, and it was left to stand mostly undisputed for 1,000 years.

I understand.

But can you prove that there are no church fathers before Him who believed it (since you have appealed to a church father)?

HankD

 

[Van]

Greektim again attacks Dr. Wallace. Here is the latest blast and as usual devoid of any support:

Yet Pauline authorship was explicitly denied by Origen, the successor to Clement, who uttered his now-famous agnostic confession: “Whoever wrote the epistle, God only knows for sure.”

But who wrote the epistle, in truth God knows.

Thus the quote is not in question, but rather the meaning. Certainly the doctrines expressed are similar to those expressed through Paul. But then Barnabas was an associate of Paul, knowledgeable of Paul's doctrines, and therefore could have been inspired to write similar doctrines by the same Spirit.

Again, the issue is not that Origen thought Hebrews represented the testimony of Paul, the issue is who was inspired to author the letter! Only God knows.

 

[The Biblicist]

Believe Paul wrote the epistle but Apollos was his penman.