Bacon eaters! Do you see?

[Bone]

There is not one statement from Christ mentioning (in context) the idea that rats, cats, dogs, bats (nor even shrimp) are made clean by His blood sacrifice on the cross.

What about Mark 7:19? That was Jesus speaking wasn't it? God even wrote it in read for me to find it easier.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[DHK]

Second, in all these pages I have read every post. Not once have you answered the question I have posed to you--not once. Care to try again?

In Deu.22:11:
How did the Israelites keep this Law?
How do you keep this law in a practical way today?

Still no answer. I doubt if it will ever come.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
There is not one statement from Christ mentioning (in context) the idea that rats, cats, dogs, bats, diseased meat, (nor even shrimp) are made clean by His blood sacrifice on the cross.... no not even in Mark 7

What about Mark 7:19? That was Jesus speaking wasn't it? God even wrote it in read for me to find it easier.:smilewinkgrin:

Exegesis shows that Mark 7 is not about eating diseased meat, or shrimp or rat sandwiches - rather it is about eating wheat without having ceremonially "baptized" fingers - cleansed of sin. The made up idea of man-made Jewish tradition at that time, being that "sin gets into you" if you do not baptize your fingers before eating.

In Mark 7 Christ argues that the Commandment of God is being set aside by the traditions of the Jews as they simply "make stuff up". He then argues that this thing about sin getting on your food - then eating food and ending up with "sin in you" is another example of the Jews totally making stuff up.

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, ""Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: " THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7 " BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'
8 ""Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.''
9 He was also saying to them, ""You are experts at setting aside the commandment of Godin order to keep your tradition.
10 ""For Moses said, " HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, " HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
11 but you say, "If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),'
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.''

However on this thread - the very thing that the rat-sandwich group wants to do is "invalidate the Word of God".

But in Mark 7 the very thing Christ is hammering is the "traditions of man that invalidate the Commandments of God"

Hint: the Mark 7 context is NOT "can we eat diseased meat and rat sandwiches specifically forbidden by Lev 11"

Hint: In Matt 5 Christ said that if anyone claims He is setting aside even the slightest comma or dotted-I in the Law of God - they are sadly mistaken.

And thus in Acts - when Peter is given the command to "rise kill and eat" the creeping things of the earth - Peter responds "No Lord -for I HAVE NEVER" violated that command of scripture, and when Peter relates the vision to others 3 times he said "God showed me that I was to call NO MAN unclean".

How many in modern times have bent the Bible and the Gospel to make it say "God showed me that I am to call NO diseased meat unclean".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

First, I am sticking to the thread, for it is about keeping the Levitical law. Dietary or Clothing law, both are part of the same law.

Hence my repeated reference to Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" as well as the Lev 17 prohibition against eating meat with blood in it - animals that were strangled - as is also repeated in Acts 15.

Another "inconvenient detail" you are so happy to ignore.

I am trying to get our baptist friends to raise the level of the discussion above the "toy defense" of the form "my pope is allowed to covet therefore I should be allowed to dishonor my parents if I want to " -- that is not even remotely a Bible position on anything at all!

And of course - I also point out to my upholding the wool not woven with linen statement in Deut 22:11 - but in truth that is a minor point since you have no Bible case at all to make in that regard even if I were not doing that -- which has been my point from page 1.

Still no answer from DHK - as predicted.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: You will not find one scripture that speaks of a believer sanctifying themselves

HP: What a rash unsupported statement, or are you going to say that every Israelite was a non-believer???? Here is just a quick sampling of the numerous examples in Scripture that are at direct antipodes with your statement.

Le 11:44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Le 20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.
Nu 11:18 And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the LORD, saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for it was well with us in Egypt: therefore the LORD will give you flesh, and ye shall eat.
Jos 3:5 And Joshua said unto the people, Sanctify yourselves: for to morrow the LORD will do wonders among you.
Jos 7:13 Up, sanctify the people, and say, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow: for thus saith the LORD God of Israel, There is an accursed thing in the midst of thee, O Israel: thou canst not stand before thine enemies, until ye take away the accursed thing from among you.
1Ch 15:12 And said unto them, Ye are the chief of the fathers of the Levites: sanctify yourselves, both ye and your brethren, that ye may bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel unto the place that I have prepared for it.
2Ch 29:5 And said unto them, Hear me, ye Levites, sanctify now yourselves, and sanctify the house of the LORD God of your fathers, and carry forth the filthiness out of the holy place.
2Ch 35:6 So kill the passover, and sanctify yourselves, and prepare your brethren, that they may do according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by Tom Bryant
I am always hearing about the fellow sitting next to me ... But I have never met one of them who admits to being "the weaker brother". They always think they are being the stronger believer because they refuse to eat or whatever. Where are these weaker brethren who are offended by my meal of pulled pork?

Well I agree that I also don't know anyone offended when someone else eats pig - and when I go to Asia - I do not get offended by someone eating rat or cat or dog. So in order to never risk eating meat "offered to idols" they chose to be vegetarians. Paul writing to the Corinthians said "I will never eat meat again if it causes my brother to stumble" speaking directly to the subject of "vegetables only" and the issue of the weaker brother confused on the subject of idols and meats offered to idols.

I myself choose not to join them in doing so.

But the "weaker brother" subject in 1Cor 8 and Rom 14 has to do with those who "eat vegetables only" because they are gentiles who come from a pagan background believing an idol to be a false god/deity of some type.

(hint - no specification in the OT saying you have to eat "vegetables only" so the wild idea that following the Word of God (the OT) is "weak" is not actually in the text - it is merely eisegeted in by some people who failed to notice the details and the context or do something even close to exegesis of the text when addressing it from the pulpit).

When we go out to eat - I never notice vegetarians or those who follow God's Word in Lev 11 becoming "offended" because someone at the next table prefers to ignore that part of the Word of God.

We like how you love to boast of pointing to the details. You tell us to look at the detail of "meats offered to idols". You tell us all about exegesis and how we just don't pay attention to the details.

Ahh yes - "exegesis" - good.

Did you want to make some correction or addition to that discussion above?

And then you abandon details and any form of exegesis as you repeatedly post Is 66 as a scripture that sends swine eaters to hell.

You say look at the detail of meat offered to idols. Why do you totally ignore this "detail" in Is 66? I guess it is one of those "inconvenient details" you like to speak of.

Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves ...

These are unbelievers. You will not find one scripture that speaks of a believer sanctifying themselves for it is Christ who sanctifies the believer.

If by "believer" you mean Jew and by non-believer in Isaiah 66 you mean non-Jew then a few "inconvenient details" come up.

1. It is not clear that no Jew ever worshipped a false god or idol
2. It is clear that all the Jews in the Context of Is 66 - knew that Lev 11 was "the Word of God" and if they chose to rebel against God's Word - they did so knowingly.

...in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

The spoken of in this text are they who offer meats unto false gods believing these meats sanctify themselves.

In Isaiah 66 - we have the judgment of God at the end of the world - judgment by fire and God says that those who eat "mice and detestible things" come to an end in that fiery post-cross NT day of judgment.

Is 66

15 For behold, the LORD will come in fire And His chariots like the whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire.

16 For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many.
17 ""Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center, Who eat swine's flesh, detestable things and mice[/b], will come to an end altogether,'' declares the LORD.
18 ""For I know their works and their thoughts; the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory.

Just as those meats offered unto idols spoken of in Romans 14.

But you ignore this huge detail in Is 66:17. You find it "inconvenient" I suppose.

Romans 14 does not say "go ahead and eat meat offerred to idols".

Romans 14 talks about those gentiles who are weak in the faith and who "eat vegetables only" in order to avoid meats offerred to idols.

And remember - in Acts 15 gentiles are specifically told NOT to eat meat offerred to idols - so those who "eat vegetables only" in order to steer clear of that problem may be sort of "weak in the faith" by 1Cor 8 and 10 standards - but they are doing so in the spirit of "following orders".

God said -

16 For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many.
17 ""Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center, Who eat swine's flesh, detestable things and mice[/b], will come to an end altogether,'' declares the LORD.

But Steaver said

Is 66:17 is not about eating swine or the mouse for food.

Let the unbiased objective reader decide for themselves.

(Hint: It is possible to be guilty of more than one sin in that Isaiah 66 case - otherwise the text could just as well say "those who breath fresh air and dring water will come to an end altogether" after talking about the "purify themselves" thing. It is clearly a problem addressed in the form of "both and" and not falling into the logical fallacy of "either or".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

HP: What a rash unsupported statement, or are you going to say that every Israelite was a non-believer???? Here is just a quick sampling of the numerous examples in Scripture that are at direct antipodes with your statement.

Le 11:44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Le 20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.
Nu 11:18 And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the LORD, saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for it was well with us in Egypt: therefore the LORD will give you flesh, and ye shall eat.
Jos 3:5 And Joshua said unto the people, Sanctify yourselves: for to morrow the LORD will do wonders among you.
Jos 7:13 Up, sanctify the people, and say, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow: for thus saith the LORD God of Israel, There is an accursed thing in the midst of thee, O Israel: thou canst not stand before thine enemies, until ye take away the accursed thing from among you.
1Ch 15:12 And said unto them, Ye are the chief of the fathers of the Levites: sanctify yourselves, both ye and your brethren, that ye may bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel unto the place that I have prepared for it.
2Ch 29:5 And said unto them, Hear me, ye Levites, sanctify now yourselves, and sanctify the house of the LORD God of your fathers, and carry forth the filthiness out of the holy place.
2Ch 35:6 So kill the passover, and sanctify yourselves, and prepare your brethren, that they may do according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

Maybe my statement was not defined as well as it should have been. Billy got upset with me for being to short with my words also.

All of these commands are provided for of the Lord. All sanctification comes from the Lord. Our role is to be obedient and allow God to sanctify us in His own way that He commands.

In Isaiah 66 we do not see any command from God to sanctify themsleves by eating swine or mouse. These are doing so in their own defiance against the God of Israel's commands. These show they are the exact opposite of believers in God. They are not being condemned for eating pork for supper, they are being condemned for "sanctifying themselves" contrary to what God says. It is an abomination of God's word. Not supper time as Bob would need us to believe.

:jesus:

 

[BobRyan]

Isaiah 66 does not say "they sanctify themselves BY eating swine and mice".

But Lev 11 does say that swine and mice "are not for food".

and in Genesis 7 we see that the clean animals go into the ark by SEVENS and the unclean by TWOS.

The Gospel is not about making diseased meat and rat-sandwiches -- good for food.

The Gospel is about saving humans from the 2nd death - the lake of fire - fire and brimstone - etc etc.

Hard to believe that some people think that the cross is supposed to make it ok to eat diseased beef.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: Maybe my statement was not defined as well as it should have been. Billy got upset with me for being to short with my words also.

HP:

 

[steaver]

Ahh yes - "exegesis" - good.


If by "believer" you mean Jew and by non-believer in Isaiah 66 you mean non-Jew then a few "inconvenient details" come up.

Steaver; No, by "believer" i mean anyone who trust in God whether Jew or Gentile.

1. It is not clear that no Jew ever worshipped a false god or idol
2. It is clear that all the Jews in the Context of Is 66 - knew that Lev 11 was "the Word of God" and if they chose to rebel against God's Word - they did so knowingly.

Steaver; 1) I believe it is most certainly clear that many Jews worshipped false gods. 2) In the context of Is 66 it matters not anything about Lev 11. Anyone who "sanctifies themselves" apart from a commandment from God to do so is not a believer in God but rather believes in a false god.

In Isaiah 66 - we have the judgment of God at the end of the world - judgment by fire and God says that those who eat "mice and detestible things" come to an end in that fiery post-cross NT day of judgment.

Is 66

15 For behold, the LORD will come in fire And His chariots like the whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire.

16 For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many.
17 ""Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center, Who eat swine's flesh, detestable things and mice[/b], will come to an end altogether,'' declares the LORD.
18 ""For I know their works and their thoughts; the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory.


Steaver; The text says nothing of those who eat swine for supper. It explicitly says "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens". A "detail" you love to omit in your boast of "context and detail" rants.

"For I know their works and their thoughts". Eating supper is not a work or thought to be judged unless it invovles sanctifying oneself by a false god.

Romans 14 does not say "go ahead and eat meat offerred to idols".

Steaver; It does say eat the food offered if you want for an idol is nothing to a believer. The believer eats for food, not to sanctify themselves by the idol it has been offered to.

Romans 14 talks about those gentiles who are weak in the faith and who "eat vegetables only" in order to avoid meats offerred to idols.

Steaver; Correct, because they are afraid like you that Is 66 means supper time. Paul says for a believer the meat offered to the idol means nothing, go ahead and eat it if you are mature enough in your faith to accept the truth of the matter. Otherwise eat fruits and veggies.

And remember - in Acts 15 gentiles are specifically told NOT to eat meat offerred to idols - so those who "eat vegetables only" in order to steer clear of that problem may be sort of "weak in the faith" by 1Cor 8 and 10 standards - but they are doing so in the spirit of "following orders".

Steaver; Yes, not because of eternal condemnation, but because they are weak in the faith right now. Paul made it clear in Cor 8&10 that the eating of the meats did not matter to the one who did the eating unless he was making his brother stumble. "Details" you like to leave out.

God said -

16 For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many.
17 ""Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center, Who eat swine's flesh, detestable things and mice[/b], will come to an end altogether,'' declares the LORD.

Steaver; An "inconvenient detail" for you is "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center" (Hint; this is not supper time)


Let the unbiased objective reader decide for themselves.

Steaver; Yes, I believe the unbiased objective reader won't find it hard to see "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center" is whom the text is speaking of. Not those having a dinner.

But go ahead and continue to boast of your detail searching, context keeping and of your unbiased objective exegesis work.

in Christ,

Bob

Really Bob, this passage is to easy to exegesis. The unbiased objective reader you like to call upon will have no problem seeing "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center".

Since you admit that you cannot see this then does that make you a biased unobjective reader?

:jesus:

 

[steaver]

Isaiah 66 does not say "they sanctify themselves BY eating swine and mice".


in Christ,

Bob

Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Boast again to us how you pay attention to detail, context and unbiased objective reading. Tell us Bob.

:jesus:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: All of these commands are provided for of the Lord. All sanctification comes from the Lord. Our role is to be obedient and allow God to sanctify us in His own way that He commands.

HP: What is this double speak? You first say it is “all… provided for of the Lord” then you say "our role" is “to be obedient.” “Allow” God to sanctify us??? as if you honestly believed the will of man could decide on its own to thwart the omnipotent hand of God????

If “all is provided for of the Lord,” obedience is in reality beside the point, for it is nothing short of a mere necessitated end of being “all of the Lord.” ‘Obedience,’ as you seem to imply, in effect is nothing more than the results of determinative council, the necessitated results of sheer fatalistic determinism by God alone. You feign the word “obedience.” Obedience to you has nothing to do with any free will act of your own, but rather is merely coerced upon a few by God providing for a few lucky ones “all.” If not, it is NOT "all of God." How is it Steaver?

 

[steaver]

Isaiah 66 does not say "they sanctify themselves BY eating swine and mice".

in Christ,

Bob

Here are few more versions.....

"Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst, Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together," says the LORD. (NKJV)

“Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the midst of* those who eat the flesh of pigs and rats and other abominable things—they will meet their end together,” declares the Lord. (NIV)

“Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating pig's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, declares the Lord. (ESV)

"Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center, Who eat swine's flesh, detestable things and mice, Will come to an end altogether," declares the LORD. (NASB)

"Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating swine's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, says the LORD. (RSV)

IDOL WORSHIPPERS

Can the unbiased objective reader SEE the "details" and "context"?

How about you Bob? do you wish to practice what you preach??

:jesus:

 

[BobRyan]

Steaver is framing his recent remarks as a Bible based argument and so also Thinkingstuff on this subject but on another thread - so I am adding Thinkingstuff to this thread since it is the same subject - and given that he is making a Bible case for his eat-rat-sandwiches position instead of toying around with "my pope covets so I dishonor my parents" -- I wanted to be sure his example gets posted here.

Coming up next.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

HP: What is this double speak? You first say it is “all… provided for of the Lord” then you say "our role" is “to be obedient.” “Allow” God to sanctify us, as if you honestly believed the will of man could decide on its own to thwart the omnipotent hand of God????

If “all is provided for of the Lord,” obedience is in reality beside the point, for it is nothing short of a mere necessitated end of being “all of the Lord.” ‘Obedience,’ as you seem to imply, in effect is nothing more than the results of determinative council, the necessitated results of sheer fatalistic determinism by God alone. You feign the word “obedience.” Obedience to you has nothing to do with any free will act of your own, but rather is merely coerced upon a few by God providing for a few lucky ones “all.” If not, it is NOT "all of God." How is it Steaver?

Sanctification can be easy or difficult depending on the person's willingness to submit.

However, in the end God will have His way for our benefit and His glory.

1Th 5:23¶And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24 Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do [it].


You should pray tonight HP and thank God for His commitment to you, promissing to see you through to the very end. Jesus keeps you brother, you are not keeping yourself. Give Him the glory and appreciation He deserves.

Did you ever try to stop believing in Him?

:jesus:

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Steaver is framing his recent remarks as a Bible based argument and so also Thinkingstuff on this subject but on another thread - so I am adding Thinkingstuff to this thread since it is the same subject - and given that he is making a Bible case for his eat-rat-sandwiches position instead of toying around with "my pope covets so I dishonor my parents" -- I wanted to be sure his example gets posted here.

Coming up next.

in Christ,

Bob

I'm not catholic. I know alot about it because my family is and we argue more about it than you can even imagine. Just because I have an indepth knowledge of something does not mean I'm that thing. So your "my pope covets" statment is a unnecissary slur. And I ask you to retract it.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: Sanctification can be easy or difficult depending on the person's willingness to submit.

However, in the end God will have His way for our benefit and His glory.

HP: Again, total and complete double speak. If God has His way in the end regardless, any part whatsoever we might play is mute and in reality meaningless. You might as well preach to a brick wall as try and speak to the necessity of obedience. You believe no such thing yourself. Any notion of obedience coming from you is a mere sophism serving as cover for your true necessitated held beliefs.

 

[BobRyan]

Alright Bob lets look at this. this is the passage from

Acts 10 Quote:
9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

Good example of Peter not having started a habbit of eating rat-sandwiches in Mark 7.

Notice then that Peter "himself" gives the "inspired" interpretation of this vision

16 This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky.
17 Now while Peter was greatly perplexed in mind as to what the vision which he had seen might be, behold, the men who had been sent by Cornelius, having asked directions for Simon's house, appeared at the gate;
18 and calling out, they were asking whether Simon, who was also called Peter, was staying there.
19 While Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him, ""Behold, three men are looking for you.
20 ""But get up, go downstairs and accompany them without misgivings, for I have sent them Myself.''
21 Peter went down to the men and said, ""Behold, I am the one you are looking for; what is the reason for which you have come?''
22 They said, ""Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews, was divinely directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and hear a message from you.''
23 So he invited them in and gave them lodging. And on the next day he got up and went away with them, and some of the brethren from Joppa accompanied him.
24 On the following day he entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them and had called together his relatives and close friends.
25 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him.
26 But Peter raised him up, saying, "" Stand up; I too am just a man.''
27 As he talked with him, he entered and found many people assembled.
28 And he said to them, ""You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean.

At no point does Peter agree to eat a rat sandwich.

At no point in Peter's own interpretation of the vision does he say "so I am now eating rat sandwiches". Peter leaves this at the "Gospel" level of preaching to Gentiles and Gentile salvation.

By CONTRAST Lev 11 mentions the unclean animals and the diseased meat issue.

So the vision is not just about diseased rat or diseased beef. But all kinds of four footed animals and reptiles and birds

From Peter's response - 14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." - the sheet of creeping things DOES include the unclean animals of Lev 11.

And Lev 11 does in fact forbid the eating of rats and diseased beef.

(including chicken I suppose) God told Peter to kill and eat. EAT. He didn't say hang out with gentiles.

Indeed. And 3 times Peter said "NO" and then Peter proceeds to "hang out with gentiles" - telling the reader 3 times that this IS the interpretation of the vision.

We will need to listen to Peter's own inspired interpretation at some point rather than telling ourselves to ignore the interpretation found in the scripture itself with "just eat rat-sandwiches" kinds of thoughts.

He said eat because gentiles eat foods as mentioned in the vision.

Peter never says "God told me to call no FOOD unclean and to eat rats because gentiles eat rats".

Peter says "God told me to call NO MAN unclean"

Peter said -
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

But Thinkingstuff said -

It has nothing to do with peter affriming he was following the law.

The text says Peter specifically does relate this to the Lev 11 issue of clean vs unclean food.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Read the text again.

And he said to them, ""You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean.

Why did the jews think the gentiles were unclean. Because they didn't have the dietary restrictions the Jews did nor did they have the other restrictions just like Jews do to day note what it says here.

For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,

Why because that is how the Jews judged.

From Peter's response - 14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." - the sheet of creeping things DOES include the unclean animals of Lev 11.

And Lev 11 does in fact forbid the eating of rats and diseased beef.

You correlate two things the passage isn't really addressing. Funny you didn't mention rabbit.

Indeed. And 3 times Peter said "NO" and then Peter proceeds to "hang out with gentiles" - telling the reader 3 times that this IS the interpretation of the vision.

Again the passage did not say hang out with gentiles but eat what they do so that you can. Peter would have eaten with Cornelius and may have had meat mixed with milk which is restricted to the Jews but not the gentiles.

 

[steaver]

HP: Again, total and complete double speak. If God has His way in the end regardless, any part whatsoever we might play is mute and in reality meaningless. You might as well preach to a brick wall as try and speak to the necessity of obedience. You believe no such thing yourself. Any notion of obedience coming from you is a mere sophism serving as cover for your true necessitated held beliefs.

I can only show you the scripture...

1Th 5:23¶And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24 Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do [it].

You say then it does not matter if I submit now or not. It matters in many ways. For one it is not pleasant to be chasened of the Lord. He is our Father and if we continue to misbehave we are going to be disciplined. God chasens those whom He loves.

When I counsel wayward Christians I tell them that they need to accept who they are as a Christian that it may go well with them. When you made God your Father you placed yourself in the best care possible and expect the discipline that comes with disobedience.

Jam 1:21¶Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jam 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Sanctification is a cleansing process that is performed through God's timeline for each individual child. We are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works which He has before ordained that we should walk in them.

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