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Bad move for the Jehovah's Witness?

evangelist6589

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Spoke with a local JW church and the person I spoke with said that at one time JW's used the KJV. This person also said I could bring my KJV to a JW fellowship. I am taking this as an opportunity in my next letter to use the KJV to show why Christ is God, Hell is real, the doctrine of the Trinity, and other related doctrines that JW's deny. Anyone have any insight on JW's? They seem closer to a Biblical worldview over most other groups in the Denver region.
 
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PreachTony

Active Member
evangelist6589 said:
Spoke with a local JW church and the person I spoke with said that at one time JW's used the KJV. This person also said I could bring my KJV to a JW fellowship. I am taking this as an opportunity in my next letter to use the KJV to show why Christ is God, Hell is real, the doctrine of the Trinity, and other related doctrines that JW's deny. Anyone have any insight on JW's? They seem closer to a Biblical worldview over most other groups in the Denver region.
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I'll take the bait on this one...:smilewinkgrin:

Seriously, though...about a year ago a group of Jehovah's Witnesses decided to basically solicit my neighborhood. The family that came to my door was a young mother and her two daughters. They approached and rang the door bell. I answered and they began their sales pitch to me. Both young girls carried bibles. Their mother, standing at the edge of my driveway, right by my porch, watching, also carried a bible.

I asked the girls what they believed and they began to tell me their thoughts. I asked them if they knew Jesus in the free pardon of sin, and they looked at me like I was speaking Greek. I pointed to their bibles and tried my best to explain the Lord to them. Their mother got visibly upset and she came charging up the porch. I calmly welcomed her. She pushed the girls behind her and began to get confrontational.

I told her that I hoped and prayed they would hear the gospel and believe on Jesus and be saved. This drew looks of confusion. I explained that salvation was the way in which I, and other believers, would be going to Heaven, quoting from Thessalonians about how we will be called up into the air to meet the Lord.

She scowled at me and said "That's wrong. We don't have a heavenly calling. Only the 144,000 will go to Heaven. That's all."

I tried to point her to John's vision in Revelation of an uncountable multitude praising God and being listed as those that came through great tribulation, but she wouldn't hear it. She angrily said "God bless you" and turned to walk off. I told her that I could not say the same to her, as 2 John 1:10 says "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:"
 
evangelist6589

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
PreachTony said:
I'll take the bait on this one...:smilewinkgrin:



Seriously, though...about a year ago a group of Jehovah's Witnesses decided to basically solicit my neighborhood. The family that came to my door was a young mother and her two daughters. They approached and rang the door bell. I answered and they began their sales pitch to me. Both young girls carried bibles. Their mother, standing at the edge of my driveway, right by my porch, watching, also carried a bible.



I asked the girls what they believed and they began to tell me their thoughts. I asked them if they knew Jesus in the free pardon of sin, and they looked at me like I was speaking Greek. I pointed to their bibles and tried my best to explain the Lord to them. Their mother got visibly upset and she came charging up the porch. I calmly welcomed her. She pushed the girls behind her and began to get confrontational.



I told her that I hoped and prayed they would hear the gospel and believe on Jesus and be saved. This drew looks of confusion. I explained that salvation was the way in which I, and other believers, would be going to Heaven, quoting from Thessalonians about how we will be called up into the air to meet the Lord.



She scowled at me and said "That's wrong. We don't have a heavenly calling. Only the 144,000 will go to Heaven. That's all."



I tried to point her to John's vision in Revelation of an uncountable multitude praising God and being listed as those that came through great tribulation, but she wouldn't hear it. She angrily said "God bless you" and turned to walk off. I told her that I could not say the same to her, as 2 John 1:10 says "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:"
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I won't invite them into my house. I will only write them a letter trying to persuade them. They reject it then I will move on.
 
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PreachTony

Active Member
evangelist6589 said:
I won't invite them into my house. I will only write them a letter trying to persuade them. They reject it then I will move on.
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I didn't invite them in. I spoke with them outside. You never know when what you say will work toward planting a seed in someone's life. I don't know about an actual JW "church" anywhere near my house.
 
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gigabyte71

Member
PreachTony said:
She scowled at me and said "That's wrong. We don't have a heavenly calling. Only the 144,000 will go to Heaven. That's all.""
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Last ones that came here finally left telling me that they don't argue with people. They were trying to tell me that Jesus being referred to as the only Begotten was proof that He was created. As soon as I disagreed with them, asking them to prove that begotten equals created, I got the "we don't argue" from them, and they left.
 
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annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I asked a Jehovah's Witness once about the 144,000 and how they would know if they were one of the 144,000. She said she actually didn't want to be one of the 144,000 because is she wasn't, then that meant she'd stay on earth where Jesus would reign. I found that interesting.

A big change I've seen recently with JW's is that they have taken on a lot of our terminology and will seem like they are agreeing with you but they are speaking of different things. Yes, Jesus is their Savior, He died for their sins and when we put our faith and trust in Him, He forgives us of our sins and we have eternal life. They agree with that - but then ask them who Jesus is then we start getting into the real difference between Biblical Christianity and Jehovah's Witnesses.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We had some drive by the church here on a Sunday right after church handing out tracks. I called and let them know that was unacceptable and the sent one of their elders by to apologize.
 
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Jordan Kurecki

Well-Known Member
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Their bible translates Believeth to excercise faith in most place.

Basically they will agree with you when you must have faith in Christ and they will use the phrase excercising faith, what they really mean by this is doing good works, they will probably quote James where he says faith without works is dead.

I think the JWs are a people who the WOTM approach seems to be the best, I would also point to the Pharisee and the Publicans...

another big thing is they do not believe Christ is God.

Acts 20:28 in the KJV is a good one, as well as 1 Timothy 3:16, and 1st John 5:7 (of course MVs do not have this one), also Isaiah 9:6, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Also John 14 where Jesus said he that hath seen me hath seen the father.

But depending on how indoctrinated, they do have arguments for these verses.

I personally do not believe they can be saved until they repent of the false Jesus they believe in in, Jesus said if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins, also of course if you abide not in the doctrine of Christ you have not God.

The two main things are self righteousness and showing the futility of good works with Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4, and Galatians 3 and the doctrine of Christ deity with the above verses.
 
evangelist6589

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jordan Kurecki said:
Their bible translates Believeth to excercise faith in most place.



Basically they will agree with you when you must have faith in Christ and they will use the phrase excercising faith, what they really mean by this is doing good works, they will probably quote James where he says faith without works is dead.



I think the JWs are a people who the WOTM approach seems to be the best, I would also point to the Pharisee and the Publicans...



another big thing is they do not believe Christ is God.



Acts 20:28 in the KJV is a good one, as well as 1 Timothy 3:16, and 1st John 5:7 (of course MVs do not have this one), also Isaiah 9:6, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Also John 14 where Jesus said he that hath seen me hath seen the father.



But depending on how indoctrinated, they do have arguments for these verses.



I personally do not believe they can be saved until they repent of the false Jesus they believe in in, Jesus said if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins, also of course if you abide not in the doctrine of Christ you have not God.



The two main things are self righteousness and showing the futility of good works with Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4, and Galatians 3 and the doctrine of Christ deity with the above verses.
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I do not know I would call them out like that, as the Pharisees are more types like these progressive liberal christians, the word of faith and prosperity gospel, and such. My letter will not only include gospel tracts intended to defended core doctrines but much scripture as well from the KJV since they agree with it. All modern versions all agree theologically with the KJVO but the NWT another gospel.
 
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Jordan Kurecki

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
evangelist6589 said:
I do not know I would call them out like that, as the Pharisees are more types like these progressive liberal christians, the word of faith and prosperity gospel, and such. My letter will not only include gospel tracts intended to defended core doctrines but much scripture as well from the KJV since they agree with it. All modern versions all agree theologically with the KJVO but the NWT another gospel.
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Deity of Christ is weakened in MVs, sure its there... but its not as strong as the KJV.

1st Timothy 3:16 in modern versions often reads "He" or "Who" instead of "God" was manifest in the flesh.

KJV- And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Lord above is removed from modern versions.

Daniel 3:25 Nebuchadnezzar says he say the Son of God in the fire, the KJV agrees with the Geneva and the Bishops Bible, the MV's read "a son of the gods"

KJV- Romans 14:10b and 12 ...for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

the modern versions change the "Christ" to God, thus obscuring the fact that Christ is God.

KJV- Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

NIV- Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

NASV- who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

the KJV says he didn't think it robbery, or he did not think it was a crime or a wrong, to consider himself equal with God, the NIV and NASV say that he did not consider it something to be grasped or something to be though of which is the exact opposite, the JWs would love this because the MVs show Jesus did not consider equality with God to be grasped.

There are others, but this is a short list.
 
Sapper Woody

Sapper Woody

Well-Known Member
Edited to say: I posted this post and then realized that I may have mistakenly posted Mormon beliefs instead of JW. If so, I apologize. I am going to rest and then research to see if I confused them. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that I posted Mormon beliefs.

But, here is the original post:

JWs believe that Jesus is a son of God, as we all are. They believe that the god of our Earth needed a redemption plan, and so two of his sons, Jesus and Lucifer put forth their plans. Lucifer said to force people to believe. Jesus said to send a sacrifice. God accepted Jesus' plan and rejected Lucifer's, so Lucifer rebelled.

They believe in 3 afterlife possibilities. Terrestrial, extraterrestrial, and Heavenly. How good you are determines where you end up. But no matter where you end up, you will feel as if it is the best place for you.

The best men among us become gods. And that's why they believe in polygamy. A woman's eternal fate is determined by her husband's. If that man becomes a god, then all his wives will live in eternity with him, bearing his babies to populate a new earth where he will decide the salvation plan.

Hope this helps. Obviously, this isn't exhaustive, but it's the core.
 
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gigabyte71

Member
Sapper Woody said:
JWs believe that Jesus is a son of God, as we all are. They believe that the god of our Earth needed a redemption plan, and so two of his sons, Jesus and Lucifer put forth their plans. Lucifer said to force people to believe. Jesus said to send a sacrifice. God accepted Jesus' plan and rejected Lucifer's, so Lucifer rebelled.

They believe in 3 afterlife possibilities. Terrestrial, extraterrestrial, and Heavenly. How good you are determines where you end up. But no matter where you end up, you will feel as if it is the best place for you.

The best men among us become gods. And that's why they believe in polygamy. A woman's eternal fate is determined by her husband's. If that man becomes a god, then all his wives will live in eternity with him, bearing his babies to populate a new earth where he will decide the salvation plan.

Hope this helps. Obviously, this isn't exhaustive, but it's the core.
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Thanks, that was informative.
 
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gigabyte71

Member
evangelist6589 said:
I read Way of the Master but more important I have the Holy Spirit.
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So help me understand here. Do you think that those who spend years to become effective apologists are going about it all wrong? From your response it sounds like you don't feel you really need to be prepared to answer/respond to their questions or claims.
 
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