Bad move for the Jehovah's Witness?

[Sapper Woody]

I must apologize. I am exhausted right now and it's very possible I mistook JWs' beliefs with Mormon beliefs in my post. Right now I can't remember. I edited my post to reflect this.

 

[evangelist6589]

Letter to JW's

This is the 1st draft as I am sure to have much revision.

Dear Elders;

I spoke with someone from your church named xxxx today. First let me state that this is the first time I have written up a JW congregation as most of my letters have been aimed at the Progressive Churches (First Baptist of Denver, Scum of the Earth Church), Universalist Churches (Columbine Unitarian Universalist), and the New Age Churches (Unity Church of Denver, First Spiritual Science of Denver). I understand that you are big soul winners so I’d watch out for the Universalist Churches as I got accused by one of them I have not mentioned of sending hate mail for preaching the gospel. As for you I have included a number of gospel tracts including ones on doctrines you deny such as Hell, and the Biblical Jesus. You claim to believe in the Bible and xxxx even said at one time you used the KJV, so my challenge for you is to look up the verses defending the deity of Christ and the doctrine of Hell for the gospel tracts have many. The KJV is a very different translation than the New World because it teaches sound doctrine while the NWT does not. But ultimately your biggest problem is your works based salvation which contradicts Eph 2:8-9 which says “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Looking at the verse I do not know how you can miss such a fundamental doctrine. Below are more verses used to defend Christ and the Trinity so lets look together at a few.

4. Deity of Christ (Jesus Christ is God.)
· He is called God.
(a) John 1:1 (b) John 1:18 (c) John 20:28 (d) Romans 9:5
(e) Titus 2:13 (f) Hebrews 1:8 (g) I John 5:20
· He is worshiped as God.
(a) John 5:23 (b) Philippians 2:10-11 (c) Hebrews 1:6
5. Oneness of God (God is one.)
(a) Deuteronomy 6:4 (b) Isaiah 44:6 (c) John 17:3
6. Personal distinctions in the Trinity (Jesus Christ is a distinct person from God the Father.)
(a) Matthew 27:46 (b) John 5:32, 37 (c) Galatians 4:4
7. New Testament Trinitarian formulas (The Scripture identifies three divine persons.)
(a) Matthew 28:19 (b) II Corinthians 13:14

1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”

The verse clearly declares Christ to be the True God and not a created creature or an angel as some of the cults believe. Mormons believe Jesus to be a brother of Lucifer and you a created being. Where in the Bible do you guys come up with these heresies?

Rom 9:5 “Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.”

Tit 2:13 “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;”

The verse says that Jesus will come again as He is the great God and savior. Other passages in the Bible refer to this appearing as either the second coming or the rapture, but this particular verse refers to the second coming of Christ.

Heb 1:6 “And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.”

This verse is one you think teaches your theology because of the word firstborn. But when someone looks into the text and into the languages closer he will see that firstborn does not refer to firstborn in the way an English speaker would think, but first born would be one whom holds preeminence or supremacy in the mind of the writer of Hebrews.

Phil 2:10-11 “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Why would someone bow to a false god or a created creature as your theology teaches?

2 Cor 13:14 “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.”

Clearly defending the doctrine of the Trinity. Many other verses exist and I have a book on the Trinity if you are interested in further discussion.

However, ultimately your main problem is that according to the Bible you are not as good as you think you are and nether am I nor anyone living on earth for that matter. Everyone is born a sinner and on the way to Hell (Rm 3:23) and will spend an eternity separated from God unless they repent and turn to Christ. The conscience bears guilt and a great passage to indicate this is found in Exodus 20 and the 10 Commandments. Go ahead and turn there and take the tests to see if you are a good person. Lets try a few. Have you ever told a lie before? Have you ever stolen anything before? Ever used God’s name in vain? Ever disobeyed your parents when you were young? If you have answered yes to any of the above you have admitted to having broken Gods Moral law spelled out in the 10 Commandments found in Ex 20. By God’s righteous and Holy law the soul that sins deserves death and judgment (Ez 18:4; Heb 9:27). But the good news I have for you is that God does love you and sent forth His son Jesus to bear your sin debt and to whoever believes and trusts in Him. Without the Cross of Christ, mankind would be doomed to spend an eternity in Hell. I would love to lead you to the Lord and for you to turn back on the false god of the JW cult. If you want to talk further please call or write, however DO NOT place me on a mailing list nor send me JW materials.


Sincerely,


John Wolf

 

[Sapper Woody]

Evan, the first revision I'd suggest is removing that last line. You are sending them your views, but tell them not to send you theirs.

 

[beameup]

I was raised in a JW household, and indeed we used the King James version (circa 1958).
I distinctly remember their teaching that the "holy spirit" was a "joyful attitude". LOL
They definitely had some major "changes" in doctrines over the years.

Keep in mind that their major hold on people is "peer group pressure", where they will shun you if you ask too many questions or "stray".

 

[evangelist6589]

Evan, the first revision I'd suggest is removing that last line. You are sending them your views, but tell them not to send you theirs.

As long as I am not added to a mailing list I guess it will be ok.

 

[Tom Butler]

I was home recovering from surgery several years ago when two nice JW ladies knocked on my door. I invited them in.

We settled down in the den and one of them pulled out her NWT. I said, "wait a minute, let me get my Bible so I can follow with you."

She opened to Ecclesiastes 9:5 and read: " For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." She was about to discuss soul sleep. I had never seen that passage before. I prayed silently that the Holy Spirit would give me an answer. He brought to my mind Revelation 7, when a large crowd is gathered around the throne, praising God day and night. The angelic guide tells John that they had come out of the tribulation and their robes were washed in the blood of the Lamb.

So, I said, "you know, I'm not familiar with that verse in Ecclesiastes. But what about
Revelation 7? These folks are not asleep. They did die on earth, but here they are alive and in the presence of God and praising Him. What about that?"

They were stumped. This passage seemed new to them. "You've raised an interesting point," said one of the ladies. "We'd like for one of our elders to come back and discuss it with you."

"Fine," I said. So they prepared to leave.

"Before you go, I'd like to give you my testimony." So I related my salvation experience as a nine-year-old, step by step, from illumination to conviction, to surrender. When I finished, they moved to leave.

"Before you go, give me your testimony. Tell me when God saved you."

Now,I see panic in their eyes. This is foreign to them. One of them mumbled something about loving God.

"I understand. Tell me when the Holy Spirit brought you under conviction, opened your mind to your lost condition, drew you to repentance and faith and changed your heart."

This was totally foreign to them. One made some general statement about God, thanked me for my hospitality and left as quickly as possible.

I guess my point is that trying to debate JWs usually doesn't work. But you can give them the gospel through your personal testimony, and leave it to the Holy Spirit from there. Whether you know a lot of Scripture or now, one's salvation testimony you'll always remember. And you haven't been hostile or argumentative.

Oh, and invite them back.

 

[annsni]

Great words, Tom. Thanks for that testimony!

 

[The Biblicist]

I have studied many times with the JW's and been in countless debates with them over the past 40 years especially in my early ministry. They believe the 144,000 are the born again class and only they have a heavenly hope, while the vast majority profess to be of the earthly class and have no heavenly hope and need not to be born again. They believe the last of their heavenly class were born no later than 1935 and so most JW's today are of their earthly class.

None of their original founders knew anything about Greek or Hebrew and so they never reveal their so-called translators of the New World Translation.

They reject nearly every orthodox doctrine; They deny the Trinity, deny the deity of Christ, the deity of the Holy Spirit, deny conscious existence of the soul after physical death, deny suffer that extends for eternity in Gehenna, deny the new birth except for the 144,000, deny justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works, and the list goes on and on.

They claim the Watchtower organization and ruling body is the prophetic mouth piece of God on earth,and have falsely prophesied the date of the coming of Christ MANY times from the late 1800's.

They won't read your tracts because they believe they are demonic. etc., etc.

 

[annsni]

They won't read your tracts because they believe they are demonic. etc., etc.

I will attest to this. A pair came up the driveway and engaged my husband in discussion. He was getting ready to leave so they tried to hand him a Watchtower but he told them he would only take their information if they would take his. He had a Four Spiritual Laws and tried to get them to take it. Not only wouldn't they take it but they wouldn't touch it yet they kept trying to get him to take their stuff. He said "I think it's only fair that if I take your newspaper that you take my tract." I seem to remember them saying that they don't take any other writings because there are people in the Watchtower who are trained in these things and have studied them and they believe their information to be true and so will not read anything else. Hubby told them that they shouldn't fear more information and they just might learn something but they still wouldn't take it. So he told them to have a nice day and walked away.

 

[rsr]

I must apologize. I am exhausted right now and it's very possible I mistook JWs' beliefs with Mormon beliefs in my post. Right now I can't remember. I edited my post to reflect this.

Yes, those are Mormon beliefs, not Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[evangelist6589]

I have studied many times with the JW's and been in countless debates with them over the past 40 years especially in my early ministry. They believe the 144,000 are the born again class and only they have a heavenly hope, while the vast majority profess to be of the earthly class and have no heavenly hope and need not to be born again. They believe the last of their heavenly class were born no later than 1935 and so most JW's today are of their earthly class.

None of their original founders knew anything about Greek or Hebrew and so they never reveal their so-called translators of the New World Translation.

They reject nearly every orthodox doctrine; They deny the Trinity, deny the deity of Christ, the deity of the Holy Spirit, deny conscious existence of the soul after physical death, deny suffer that extends for eternity in Gehenna, deny the new birth except for the 144,000, deny justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works, and the list goes on and on.

They claim the Watchtower organization and ruling body is the prophetic mouth piece of God on earth,and have falsely prophesied the date of the coming of Christ MANY times from the late 1800's.

They won't read your tracts because they believe they are demonic. etc., etc.

Thanks for the advice brother. I will need to re-write certain parts, but perhaps they may read one of my attractive LAW based tracts from Living waters as I have discovered that 9/10 people read these tracts. The million dollar bills, the cartoon tracts, the monkey tract, the movie ticket tract, and other such tracts that very few seem to resist.

Please do email me some more advice, or perhaps if you want you can write the letter and I will mail it, but please do not take out the paragraph on the 10 commandments as that is vital.


John

 

[evangelist6589]

I will attest to this. A pair came up the driveway and engaged my husband in discussion. He was getting ready to leave so they tried to hand him a Watchtower but he told them he would only take their information if they would take his. He had a Four Spiritual Laws and tried to get them to take it. Not only wouldn't they take it but they wouldn't touch it yet they kept trying to get him to take their stuff. He said "I think it's only fair that if I take your newspaper that you take my tract." I seem to remember them saying that they don't take any other writings because there are people in the Watchtower who are trained in these things and have studied them and they believe their information to be true and so will not read anything else. Hubby told them that they shouldn't fear more information and they just might learn something but they still wouldn't take it. So he told them to have a nice day and walked away.

They may read one of the living waters tracts and for this occasion I may use the movie ticket tract. Ever seen this one? Looks like a movie ticket but with a gospel presentation. Their tracts are better designed than others as they have some strong graphic designers.

 

[Rolfe]

I read Way of the Master but more important I have the Holy Spirit.

Yet you have the need to ask for opinions here?

Seriously, be very careful. Regarding doctrine, you seem to be easily influenced. I am not saying not to engage them, just to be very cautious.

What does your pastor say about this?

 

[evangelist6589]

Yet you have the need to ask for opinions here?

Seriously, be very careful. Regarding doctrine, you seem to be easily influenced. I am not saying not to engage them, just to be very cautious.

What does your pastor say about this?

A poster here gave me some wonderful advice and I am taking it. Proverbs speaks about getting wisdom from wise people. "He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm."

 

[Crabtownboy]

As long as I am not added to a mailing list I guess it will be ok.

Could they not say the same thing to you?

I had a friend years ago who would invite JW's into his home. He would agree to have a Bible study with them on one condition. That was they would allow him to visit them in their home and have a Bible study that he lead.

 

[Deacon]

Anyone have any insight on JW's? They seem closer to a Biblical worldview over most other groups in the Denver region.

I haven't spoken with the Jehovah's Witnesses for quite a long time.

More than 10 years ago a group began actively evangelizing our neighborhood.
I had quite a few conversations with them around a table I have set up on my large front porch.

After our first meeting they brought with them their heavy guns, the leaders of their assembly.

I had studied their theology quite a while prior to the conversation and was surprised that much that I had learned seemed to have changed. As I listened it seemed that they had become more in-line with popular Christianity.
But the more I listened and questioned, it turned out they use Christian terms but have redefined them to mean something quite different than what we understand as believers. ... and they still deny the divinity of Jesus.

After a few polite conversations I confronted them with the evidence we discussed and asked them to make a decision regarding Jesus and his work of salvation.

The lead spokeswoman appeared a bit shaken and unsure.
I wonder if later she began questioning her 'faith'.
We ended our conversation politely and I've never seen another JW group in our neighborhood. ... perhaps we were blacklisted. :tongue3:

Rob

 

[evangelist6589]

I may not make any impact on them nor any church for that matter. But God expects me to witness and He will elect some and pass over others. He may pass the JW's or he may elect some to salvation I do not know. But all I know is I love evangelism and apologetics and seek to obey the great commission.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Edited to say: I posted this post and then realized that I may have mistakenly posted Mormon beliefs instead of JW. If so, I apologize. I am going to rest and then research to see if I confused them. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that I posted Mormon beliefs.

But, here is the original post:

JWs believe that Jesus is a son of God, as we all are. They believe that the god of our Earth needed a redemption plan, and so two of his sons, Jesus and Lucifer put forth their plans. Lucifer said to force people to believe. Jesus said to send a sacrifice. God accepted Jesus' plan and rejected Lucifer's, so Lucifer rebelled.

They believe in 3 afterlife possibilities. Terrestrial, extraterrestrial, and Heavenly. How good you are determines where you end up. But no matter where you end up, you will feel as if it is the best place for you.

The best men among us become gods. And that's why they believe in polygamy. A woman's eternal fate is determined by her husband's. If that man becomes a god, then all his wives will live in eternity with him, bearing his babies to populate a new earth where he will decide the salvation plan.

Hope this helps. Obviously, this isn't exhaustive, but it's the core.

These would be mormon beliefs.

 

[JonC]

I may not make any impact on them nor any church for that matter. But God expects me to witness and He will elect some and pass over others. He may pass the JW's or he may elect some to salvation I do not know. But all I know is I love evangelism and apologetics and seek to obey the great commission.

I think that the best thing you can do is to forget about this “elect” and “non-elect” business when it comes to evangelism. Instead take a lesson from Paul. He pleaded with people to be saved (and obviously many were not). An evangelist should be burdened for the souls of people….not categorizing those who will hear the message. I am not saying that you do not have a burden for people…just cautioning against speaking of people as “non-elect" (and the categorization that seems to run through your threads). Now that I think of it…I’m really not sure that Scripture speaks of “non-elect”…other than dealing with the elect as a whole (e.g., make sure of your calling and election…). Anyway, “election” is a doctrine for the Church…not the world. The only doctrine for the world is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Keep that heart of obedience and don’t get distracted from God’s call in your life.

 

[evangelist6589]

I think that the best thing you can do is to forget about this “elect” and “non-elect” business when it comes to evangelism. Instead take a lesson from Paul. He pleaded with people to be saved (and obviously many were not). An evangelist should be burdened for the souls of people….not categorizing those who will hear the message. I am not saying that you do not have a burden for people…just cautioning against speaking of people as “non-elect" (and the categorization that seems to run through your threads). Now that I think of it…I’m really not sure that Scripture speaks of “non-elect”…other than dealing with the elect as a whole (e.g., make sure of your calling and election…). Anyway, “election” is a doctrine for the Church…not the world. The only doctrine for the world is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Keep that heart of obedience and don’t get distracted from God’s call in your life.

This is better off in another thread. Anyways I have a strong burden for souls and will not get into this debate with unbelievers so as to not get them confused and to take away their hope. I do not know the elect for only God knows.