Bait and switch

[agedman]

The intent if this thread to explore in the Scriptures the techniques God may use, in particular bait and switch, from the unregenerate world perspective.

Generally speaking the term, bait and switch, is viewed as deceitful manipulation. One where the reward is often switched to a lesser value then what the enticement of the bait suggests. But does God use such a tactic?

Is there times in the ministry of Paul, Peter, John ... in which God baited the hook and then switched the reward?

What about in the Gospels or OT?

For example:

Did God bait the worship leaders into demanding the crucifixion with the thinking of considering it best for the nation and themselves that one die rather then all, just to reward eternal punishment?

Did God lead the people out of Egypt with the promise of a new land and then have them die in the desert? Is this not "malice a forethought?"

Again, this thread is an exercise in setting forth the worldly perspective of the use of bait and switch in the Scriptures.

It may be wise for some to include a rebuttal to the scenarios given to aid in gathering wisdom in the arguments.

 

[percho]

The intent if this thread to explore in the Scriptures the techniques God may use, in particular bait and switch, from the unregenerate world perspective.

Generally speaking the term, bait and switch, is viewed as deceitful manipulation. One where the reward is often switched to a lesser value then what the enticement of the bait suggests. But does God use such a tactic?

Is there times in the ministry of Paul, Peter, John ... in which God baited the hook and then switched the reward?

What about in the Gospels or OT?

For example:

Did God bait the worship leaders into demanding the crucifixion with the thinking of considering it best for the nation and themselves that one die rather then all, just to reward eternal punishment?

Did God lead the people out of Egypt with the promise of a new land and then have them die in the desert? Is this not "malice a forethought?"

Again, this thread is an exercise in setting forth the worldly perspective of the use of bait and switch in the Scriptures.

It may be wise for some to include a rebuttal to the scenarios given to aid in gathering wisdom in the arguments.

Numero uno in my book.

For the creation was subjected to futility — not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it — in the hope Romans 8:20 HCSB
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am made out of flesh, [fn] sold into sin’s power. Romans 7:14 HCSB
For you know that you were redeemed from your empty way of life inherited from the fathers, not with perishable things like silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without defect or blemish. He was chosen[fn] before the foundation of the world but was revealed at the end of the times for you. 1 Peter 1:18-20 HCSB

Planed before the foundation of the world? The Sting, of all stings.

Why?

 

[Happy]

Numero uno in my book.

For the creation was subjected to futility — not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it — in the hope Romans 8:20 HCSB
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am made out of flesh, [fn] sold into sin’s power. Romans 7:14 HCSB
For you know that you were redeemed from your empty way of life inherited from the fathers, not with perishable things like silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without defect or blemish. He was chosen[fn] before the foundation of the world but was revealed at the end of the times for you. 1 Peter 1:18-20 HCSB

Planed before the foundation of the world? The Sting, of all stings.

Why?

For His pleasure.

Isa.46

1. [10] Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Rev.4

1. [11] Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

 

[Yeshua1]

For His pleasure.

Isa.46

1. [10] Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Rev.4

1. [11] Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Even when the father created a human body for Jesus!

 

[Happy]

Even when the father created a human body for Jesus!

Scripture does NOT say a "HUMAN BODY" was created for JESUS.

Scripture specifically says; Jesus' body was PREPARED, FOR WHEN he came into this world.

Heb.10

1. [5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world...a body hast thou prepared me:

Do you NOT KNOW WHY His body had to be PREPARED?

His BODY is GODS BODY ~ GODS FORM.
And HUMAN men are NOT privy to SEE Gods BODY ~ Gods FORM ~ Gods SHAPE!

The PREPARATION was specifically to provide JESUS with a FORM that HUMAN MEN "COULD SEE"......BECAUSE He was going to come into the HUMANS WORLD, (which is EARTH!) AND be seen by Human men!

 

[Yeshua1]

Scripture does NOT say a "HUMAN BODY" was created for JESUS.

Scripture specifically says; Jesus' body was PREPARED, FOR WHEN he came into this world.

Heb.10

1. [5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world...a body hast thou prepared me:

Do you NOT KNOW WHY His body had to be PREPARED?

His BODY is GODS BODY ~ GODS FORM.
And HUMAN men are NOT privy to SEE Gods BODY ~ Gods FORM ~ Gods SHAPE!

The PREPARATION was specifically to provide JESUS with a FORM that HUMAN MEN "COULD SEE"......BECAUSE He was going to come into the HUMANS WORLD, (which is EARTH!) AND be seen by Human men!

Jesus was born a human, and right now both God and human in heaven!

 

[Happy]

Jesus was born a human, and right now both God and human in heaven!

"Jesus was born a human"

What does "born" mean to you?

 

[Yeshua1]

What does "born" mean to you?

Mary was with child, and gave birth to a baby human boy!

 

[Happy]

Mary was with child, and gave birth to a baby human boy!

^ THAT is what you think "born" means?

Are you implying your answer applies to you or anyone else that may have been born?

 

[Iconoclast]

To suggest such a thing is profane.

 

[Yeshua1]

^ THAT is what you think "born" means?

Are you implying your answer applies to you or anyone else that may have been born?

Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, who overshadowed Mary, and he was God becoming fully Human, yet without a sin nature as all other Humans have!

 

[Happy]

Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, who overshadowed Mary, and he was God becoming fully Human, yet without a sin nature as all other Humans have!

How would you describe the Scriptural featured characteristic of thee Holy Spirit?

 

[Revmitchell]

What does "born" mean to you?

What does it mean to you?

 

[Baptist Believer]

And HUMAN men are NOT privy to SEE Gods BODY ~ Gods FORM ~ Gods SHAPE!

God's "body"? What are you talking about?

God's "shape"? What are you talking about?

Since "men are not privy to see God's body," it doesn't sound like you are speaking of the incarnate Jesus.

The PREPARATION was specifically to provide JESUS with a FORM that HUMAN MEN "COULD SEE"......BECAUSE He was going to come into the HUMANS WORLD, (which is EARTH!) AND be seen by Human men!

But that form was a genuine human body, right? Not just something that appeared to be human, right?

 

[Happy]

What does it mean to you?

Most simply....That something alive comes forth out from something alive.

 

[Revmitchell]

Most simply....That something alive comes forth out from something alive.

So you talk in vague terms, question someone who talks more clearly, and the answer in vague terms. Nothing you have said about the birth of Christ is clear or makes sense. Maybe you could give us your entire view in whole rather than in vague parts. At this point it appears heretical.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Maybe you could give us your entire view in whole rather than in vague parts. At this point it appears heretical.

Based on what I've seen here and some ramblings on the "new translation" thread, I'm thinking that Happy is heavily influenced by Mormon thinking.

 

[Yeshua1]

How would you describe the Scriptural featured characteristic of thee Holy Spirit?

He is Spirit, eternal, and is God!

 

[Yeshua1]

God's "body"? What are you talking about?

God's "shape"? What are you talking about?

Since "men are not privy to see God's body," it doesn't sound like you are speaking of the incarnate Jesus.


But that form was a genuine human body, right? Not just something that appeared to be human, right?

happy does not seem to think Jesus was a human, so he was what, an angel?

 

[Yeshua1]

Most simply....That something alive comes forth out from something alive.

Jesus was born as the son of Mary, right?