Balaam showed No Free Will

[Tsalagi]

Th will of Man cannot derail the will and plan of God!

Of course not. That doesn't mean every human choice is God's will. Unlike man, God can herd cats.

 

[Yeshua1]

Of course not. That doesn't mean every human choice is God's will. Unlike man, God can herd cats.

God is soverign over all things, but he does do things at times directly, and other times he permits and allows...

 

[Tsalagi]

In a sense, I agree with you.

I see the Scriptures teaching that God does not tempt men to sin ( James 1:12-15 ), so I don't see anywhere in His word that He actively sponsors it.
But I also see that God allows men to sin for the purposes of judging us for them.


God is completely sovereign over the affairs of men ( Daniel 4:35 and others ), and chooses to either allow sin, or suppress it ( Genesis 20:6 and others ) as He sees fit.
In other words, He has the power to stop it, but doesn't.
We as sinful men are fully responsible for our sins ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 2:1-16 ),
as we not only know the truth, but actively suppress it in our hearts and minds.

According to His word,
we as a race not only know Him, we refuse to acknowledge Him as rightful King and Lord, love our sins and refuse to repent of them ( see above references in Romans 1 and Romans 2, as well as Romans 3:10-18, the Psalms, the Proverbs and John 3:19-20 as examples ).

I essentially agree with everything you have noted above (for what that's worth ). I think Balaam, Pharaoh, and other narrative episodes in the OT constitute a bit of a red herring since no one seriously argues that God cannot allow or prevent any circumstance, from letting the people go to the Assyrians or Babylonians invading Israel. God obviously allows sin, although I am convinced there is no sin that He desires to happen. The real issue is not whether man has freedom to sin in circumstances, but whether he can choose God and His salvation as an unregenerate sinner. In my opinion examples like Balaam and Pharaoh are not pertinent in answering that question.

I think the issue of free will with respect to salvation boils down to a few key questions:
a) Is God capable of creating angels and men with the free and independent ability to choose for or against Him? [Yes]
b) Can God "foreknow" what a creature is going to choose without causing or willing the choice? [Yes]
c) Does the fall, the curse, or the presence of sin disable man's ability to choose God or His salvation? [No]

This last is of course where so much debate centers, but I personally believe the "yes" conclusion is not nearly as well supported in Scripture as many assume.

 

[Scarlett O.]

When Balaam spoke - of his own free will and intent to curse - God made the words into words of blessings. God made sure Balaam's will did not prevail in the cursing, but that does not mean that Balaam had no will of his own.

It was STILL Balaam's will to harm Israel and he did - just not with his own words directly but with his words to Balak.

The Bible says in two places that Balaam was the one who made sure that the men of Israel met the sexual immoral women of Moab and sinned with them - having sex with them and worshipping Moab with them. Even to the point of one Israelite bringing one home. They both died by the one spear being sent through them both together. And God sent a great plague to Israel.

[1] Numbers 31:15-16 = "And Moses said to them, “Have you allowed all the women to live? Look, these people, through the counsel of Balaam, caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the LORD in the matter of Peor—and there was the plague among the community of the LORD.

[2] Revelation 2:14 = "But I have a few things against you: you have some people there who follow the teaching of Balaam, who instructed Balak to put a stumbling block before the people of Israel so they would eat food sacrificed to idols and commit sexual immorality."

Balaam most indeed had a will of his own - free to chose and do and say - God overrode Balaam's will to curse and caused blessings. God did not override the will of Balaam in his teaching Balak how to bring the Israelites down with sexual immorality.

Why? That's God's business. But God's sovereignty does not mean that Balaam did not have a will - a free will - to desire that Israel fall.

 

[AustinC]

According to your view man cannot thwart or defeat God's will. If Adam broke covenant with God and that breach was not God's will, then your claim is disproved. If Adam's choice was God's will, then his and every other human sin is God's will.

God ordained that Adam could willfully break covenant and sin. Adam chose to do so. The result of that covenant breaking is that humans cannot repair the covenant. God must reconcile the covenant. God reconciles His chosen sheep. This is within God's Sovereignty to make that choice. Humans cannot choose to reconcile the covenant on their own. They will (always have) fail and be incapable of reconciling with God. God must initiate and complete the reconciliation by His gracious choice.

 

[AustinC]

When Balaam spoke - of his own free will and intent to curse - God made the words into words of blessings. God made sure Balaam's will did not prevail in the cursing, but that does not mean that Balaam had no will of his own.

It was STILL Balaam's will to harm Israel and he did - just not with his own words directly but with his words to Balak.

The Bible says in two places that Balaam was the one who made sure that the men of Israel met the sexual immoral women of Moab and sinned with them - having sex with them and worshipping Moab with them. Even to the point of one Israelite bringing one home. They both died by the one spear being sent through them both together. And God sent a great plague to Israel.

[1] Numbers 31:15-16 = "And Moses said to them, “Have you allowed all the women to live? Look, these people, through the counsel of Balaam, caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the LORD in the matter of Peor—and there was the plague among the community of the LORD.

[2] Revelation 2:14 = "But I have a few things against you: you have some people there who follow the teaching of Balaam, who instructed Balak to put a stumbling block before the people of Israel so they would eat food sacrificed to idols and commit sexual immorality."

Balaam most indeed had a will of his own - free to chose and do and say - God overrode Balaam's will to curse and caused blessings. God did not override the will of Balaam in his teaching Balak how to bring the Israelites down with sexual immorality.

Why? That's God's business. But God's sovereignty does not mean that Balaam did not have a will - a free will - to desire that Israel fall.

God overrode. Those are your key words.
Thus all human will is in subjection under the will of God.
Not one molecule can go against the ordination of God.

Second, there are things, which no matter how hard man tries, no man has the capacity to will.
For example, I cannot will a sunny day when God has ordained clouds. I cannot will myself to fly by flapping my arms. I do not have the capacity, even though I have the imagination.

Thus, human will is never ultimately free. Balaam is a clear example of this truth.

 

[Quantrill]

Agree.



Disagree. I can find no where Balaam is referred to as a prophet of God, he is called a soothsayer:

22 Balaam also the son of Beor, the soothsayer, did the children of Israel slay with the sword among the rest of their slain. Josh 13

Not only was he not a prophet of God, he was not a child of God:

15 forsaking the right way, they went astray, having followed the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the hire of wrong-doing;
16 but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man`s voice and stayed the madness of the prophet.
17 These are springs without water, and mists driven by a storm; for whom the blackness of darkness hath been reserved. 2 Pet 2

Actually, one of the verses you give attests to Balaam being a prophet of God. (2 Peter 2:16) "forbad the madness of the prophet"

I understand your disagreement. And Balaam is a figure that I have difficulty with. But, I do lean to him being a true prophet, but who let the world get the best of him.

Yes, Balaam is called a 'soothsayer' in (Josh. 13:22). But the word there in Hebrew is diviner. And that can be good or bad depending on what you are divining. Consider the 'magi' or 'wisemen' who sought out Jesus when he was born. (Matt. 2:1)

So, I am not so quick to say he was not a child of God. Balaam never sought to say anything other than what God told him. (Num. 22:8) And never did he prophesy anything other than what God told him.

(2 Peter 2:15-17) does speak of those who are reserved to darkness forever. And it is said that they followed the way of Balaam. This is the way Balaam later taught them. (Num. 31:15-16) Thus he was not a 'false prophet'. But his being a hireling prophet led him away from God to do the things he did. So 'these' in (2 Peter 2:17) speak to those who followed Balaam's advice.

Notice also in (2 Peter 2:8) that Lot is called righteous and delivered. But what evidence do you have that Lot was ever righteous? None. Absolutely none. Even in his end days, his ways were perverse.

You are certainly justified in your opinion of Balaam. I myself have problems with him too. But I at this time lean to his being a true prophet of God, but misguided, to say the least.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

I think the 'P' (preservation) in TULIP is exemplified here:

13 if we are faithless, he abideth faithful; for he cannot deny himself. 2 Tim 2

Even after all the wickedness Israel had done in the wilderness after leaving Egypt (unbelief, disobedience, murmuring, idolatry, fornication, rebellion, etc.), and even with Balaam wanting so badly to curse Israel, God made Balaam to declare:

He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob; Neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: Jehovah his God is with him, And the shout of a king is among them. Nu 23:21
(Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin. Ro 4:8)

AND, throughout all their wandering/chastening in the Wilderness He still yet gave them shade by day and light by night, He fed them manna, gave them water, their clothes never wore out, their feet didn't blister, etc., He was with them always even though He granted them no repentance to enter into His Rest. They wandered in the Wilderness for the rest of their lives when they could have spent it in the Land of Milk & Honey had they only believed God, that it was theirs's for the taking.

I don't see where Balaam wanted to curse Israel. Balak wanted Balaam to curse Israel.

Yes, you are correct. Though Israel was full of wickedness at this point, God declared that He saw no sin in them. Astounding statement.

Quantrill

 

[kyredneck]

Actually, one of the verses you give attests to Balaam being a prophet of God. (2 Peter 2:16) "forbad the madness of the prophet"

K, right under my nose, I missed that.

 

[Dave G]

The real issue is not whether man has freedom to sin in circumstances, but whether he can choose God and His salvation as an unregenerate sinner. In my opinion examples like Balaam and Pharaoh are not pertinent in answering that question.

Firstly, I no longer look at salvation as an offer, though I once did.
As I see it, it never was, nor will it ever be.

Rather, it's a promise and a declaration made to only those who believe on Christ.
One can either look at it as based on a set of requirements that a man can meet ( with or without God's help ), thereby satisfying and pleasing God in favor of a desirable outcome...
or it is based on God's completely independent work in a person who was formerly dead towards Him in their desires and affections.

Regarding examples like Pharoah and Balaam, I see them serving primarily to reinforce the fact that God does as He pleases in the armies of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, so I would agree with the underlined, at least in principle...

He over-rules our will if and when He so pleases.

 

[Dave G]

a) Is God capable of creating angels and men with the free and independent ability to choose for or against Him? [Yes]

I agree...
He is capable of such and very well did when He created Adam and Eve with the ability to choose...
but once that choice was made, love of sin crept in to man's ways and became permanent rather quickly ( Romans 1 ).

Mankind now has an inherent hatred of God and His ways ( Romans 1:30 and many other passages that declare the world's hatred of both God and His Son, Jesus Christ ), and absolutely will not repent ( Romans 1:32 ).
Jesus even told the Pharisees that they would not come to Him, that they might have life.

With respect to angels, I see that this very same thing was done...
But then Lucifer, of his own free will, chose to lead a rebellion against God, and 1/3 of the angels were cast out.

They are now reserved ( some in chains ) for the Judgment, and Hell was specifically created for them.

 

[Dave G]

b) Can God "foreknow" what a creature is going to choose without causing or willing the choice? [Yes]

I agree.
But I don't see God's word laying that out as the way a person receives what Scripture very definitely calls a gift.

Rather, it's bestowed with no strings attached... not acting as a reward to the person who performs the proper action or set of actions.
Salvation is only ever said to be by grace through faith, not by faith ( Ephesians 2:8 ).

It may seem like a small distinction to many, but to me it is rather important.

Nowhere do I see God's word teaching that salvation itself can be appropriated by an act of man's will, neither do I see anywhere that being born again is anything other than an act of God's will that is completely independent of our own actions.

 

[Dave G]

c) Does the fall, the curse, or the presence of sin disable man's ability to choose God or His salvation? [No]

I don't see that man's will is not so much "disabled", as some would suggest, but it is freely given over to sin and a love for it.
That is what prevents us as men from approaching God in our heart of hearts...

The simple fact that our love of sin ( Romans 1:32 ) and hatred of God for commanding us to repent ( John 3:19-20 ), overpowers any other option.

This is why Jesus told us that no man can come to Him, except the Father draw them ( John 6:44 ) ;
That no man can come to Him, unless it were given to them by the Father to do so ( John 6:65 )...


And that is all well before the subject of God's choosing the sinner to salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ) even comes into play.

 

[Dave G]

This last is of course where so much debate centers, but I personally believe the "yes" conclusion is not nearly as well supported in Scripture as many assume.

The "yes" conclusion that man has an inherent "inability" to choose in favor of repenting and coming to God for reconciliation?
I have a feeling that any Scriptures that I would give would be disagreed with by most who see them, but I would still give them anyway...right along with my "yes" conclusion.

To me, it's actually not that difficult a question to answer in the light of all that the Bible has to say about our condition, from God's perspective.
Romans 1, Romans 2 and Romans 3 are very explicit...and Genesis, the Psalms, the Proverbs and samples out of the prophets like Isaiah and Jeremiah serve to shed light on who and what we are as sinners before a holy God.

For example, passages like Jeremiah 13:23 tell me everything that I need to know about how likely it would be for me to repent, in and of myself:

" Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil."

Therefore, when the question of "free will" comes up, I always point to the Scriptures that tell me that man's free will choice has been made and is being made, every day...
A choice that is set in stone, and that choice is to sin, and to love it...to reject God's commandments, and to hate Him:

" And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." ( Romans 1:28-32 ).

" He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." ( John 3:18-21 )

 

[Tsalagi]

God ordained that Adam could willfully break covenant and sin. Adam chose to do so. The result of that covenant breaking is that humans cannot repair the covenant. God must reconcile the covenant. God reconciles His chosen sheep. This is within God's Sovereignty to make that choice. Humans cannot choose to reconcile the covenant on their own. They will (always have) fail and be incapable of reconciling with God. God must initiate and complete the reconciliation by His gracious choice.

I'd be interested to see scriptural support ahead of each of your periods above.

 

[Tsalagi]

Second, there are things, which no matter how hard man tries, no man has the capacity to will. For example, I cannot will a sunny day when God has ordained clouds. I cannot will myself to fly by flapping my arms. I do not have the capacity, even though I have the imagination.

This may be true, but I don't see how it is pertinent. God offers man a choice of a sunny day or a far-worse-than-cloudy one, both of which He Himself creates and implements - salvation or judgment. So we're talking about a choice between God-created and God-given alternatives, not man effecting something from nothing by thinking hard enough.

 

[Tsalagi]

I agree.
But I don't see God's word laying that out as the way a person receives what Scripture very definitely calls a gift.

Rather, it's bestowed with no strings attached... not acting as a reward to the person who performs the proper action or set of actions.
Salvation is only ever said to be by grace through faith, not by faith ( Ephesians 2:8 ).

It may seem like a small distinction to many, but to me it is rather important.

Nowhere do I see God's word teaching that salvation itself can be appropriated by an act of man's will, neither do I see anywhere that being born again is anything other than an act of God's will that is completely independent of our own actions.

What is your view of Acts 17:26-31?

 

[AustinC]

I'd be interested to see scriptural support ahead of each of your periods above.

I am not sure what you are getting at. However, if you doubt the Sovereign ordination of God, I suggest reading the book of Job where God ordains that Job can lose everything but his life when He prods Satan by proclaiming the uprightness of Job.
Do you question a covenant between God and Abraham? Do you question the choice of God regarding His sheep and their hearing His voice? I'm not sure what you are getting at.

 

[AustinC]

What is your view of Acts 17:26-31?

What is your view of Acts 17:22-31?

So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, ‘To the unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for “‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said, “‘For we are indeed his offspring.’ Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

 

[AustinC]

This may be true, but I don't see how it is pertinent. God offers man a choice of a sunny day or a far-worse-than-cloudy one, both of which He Himself creates and implements - salvation or judgment. So we're talking about a choice between God-created and God-given alternatives, not man effecting something from nothing by thinking hard enough.

Where does God offer us a choice of a sunny day or far worse than cloudy one?
Where is that "Let's Make A Deal" offer displayed?