Bankruptcy

[righteousdude2]

Question [the Columbo approach - LOL]

Do you believe that bankruptcy is sin? Why?

...are you or someone you know thinking of filing for bankruptcy?

I'd have to say, that any law provided by our government for our financial protection [the safety net of of society] and the use of said laws, does not make it a sin!

Unless a person uses the law to liguidate their debt every seven years, and keeping all they bought which is usually covered by Bankruptcy laws. Now we are approaching serial bankruptcy, and it then becomes questionable and could be seen as a sin!

I guess like anything else in life, there has to be an examiniation of the motives of the heart! :thumbsup:

 

[HAMel]

So when people want to make a blanket judgment that bankruptcy is a sin, it makes me sick.

How right you are, Amy G. :thumbsup:

Law makers are keenly aware of the underhanded dealings when it comes to the money changers and how they often try to enslave. Bankruptcy Laws have been designed so as to protect those who have fallen victim to unscrupulous lenders due often to conditions beyond ones control.

Before you sign ANY CONTRACT take it home and read it!

I recently had a company try to sell me a home alarm system. After reading their contract the ONLY GUARANTEE offered was that I'd send them a check for $39.95 each month, FOR TWO YEARS. The company offered absolutely no assurance their system would even work. If the home burnt to the ground I'd still pay them $39.95 a month. No if's, and's, or but's. End of subject.

Buying a car? READ THE CONTRACT. You would not believe what it contains as it's all about the MONEY FOR THEM.

Yes, Amy G, it's enough to make you sick.

If one is going to go down that road they need to seriously understand Chapter 7 and full Bankruptcy. Two different animals.

 

[Revmitchell]

First scripture does not cover every detail of our lives. As the days go on and sin abounds more and more this old world grows more and more corrupt. Our bodies are riddled with pain and disease, people's hearts and minds grow more selfish. Because of that individual circumstances grow more diverse by the day even in the lives of Christians.

Also scripture does not address all the reasons why one becomes engulfed in debt. We do know that paying our debts is a biblical principle. Grace is also a biblical principle. You know the funny thing about grace is no one deserves it. That's how come it's grace, as we say back home. So if one is going to try to line up all the reasons why someone needs and deserves grace where debt is concerned then all grace is lost. We cannot measure the justification for grace and still call it grace.

If someone is going to abuse the issuance of grace God will deal with them. Bankruptcy in and of itself is not contrary to scripture in any way.

And if someone does not like that I know a short pier that folks can take a long walk off of.

 

[HAMel]

There are perhaps several on here that have filed for bankruptcy protection. Course, they won't admit it but I will. My wife and I went bankrupt five years ago. It's over with now.

Conditions were such that we had no choice and there were SEVERAL reasons why we found ourselves in that situation.

Anyone choose to make a judgement call then be my guest.

In the meantime we are helping to raise a great grand child because the mother stays smoked-up and who knows who the father is. This, after raising FOUR grand kids for 10 years.

I would suppose that truth be known, some of you older folks are helping to raise your grand kids, no?

Oh, yeah, almost forgot..., all of 'em were raised attending church.

Stuff happens.

 

[Sapper Woody]

I am one of those who believes that a type of bankruptcy is sin. The one where you halt your debt with the intent to pay it off I don't believe is. The one where you liquefy all assets to pay off what you can and then drop the rest, I believe is sin. My personal belief is that, regardless of the circumstances that brought you there, it is stealing.

My wife and I contemplated bankruptcy at one point. But she got a job and I took a second job (until i joined the military) and we paid off our debt in about 6 years. We went without a lot of things during that time.

Someone provided a service or goods and deserves to get paid. If they aren't, then they are stolen from.

I do not judge those who go into bankruptcy, any more than I judge a single mother. Sin is sin, but it is in the past and we need to move forward.

 

[Yeshua1]

Again incorrect. The biblical mandate was automatic, figured into the debt and for everyone. Bankruptcy is not.

The principal of forgiving sins was in the year of jubilee in Isreal, so would say that we indeed have a mandate to pursue a ch 13, but would not see a ch 7 as one to go for...

 

[Yeshua1]

First scripture does not cover every detail of our lives. As the days go on and sin abounds more and more this old world grows more and more corrupt. Our bodies are riddled with pain and disease, people's hearts and minds grow more selfish. Because of that individual circumstances grow more diverse by the day even in the lives of Christians.

Also scripture does not address all the reasons why one becomes engulfed in debt. We do know that paying our debts is a biblical principle. Grace is also a biblical principle. You know the funny thing about grace is no one deserves it. That's how come it's grace, as we say back home. So if one is going to try to line up all the reasons why someone needs and deserves grace where debt is concerned then all grace is lost. We cannot measure the justification for grace and still call it grace.

If someone is going to abuse the issuance of grace God will deal with them. Bankruptcy in and of itself is not contrary to scripture in any way.

And if someone does not like that I know a short pier that folks can take a long walk off of.

Would you agree with me on this that regardless if we see the BK supported in the bible or not, NO need to beat another chrsitian up who experienced going thru that, correct?

 

[Revmitchell]

Would you agree with me on this that regardless if we see the BK supported in the bible or not, NO need to beat another chrsitian up who experienced going thru that, correct?

I do not know what BK is and not sure why you asked me that.

 

[Yeshua1]

I do not know what BK is and not sure why you asked me that.

sorry about that! BK was short for bankruptcy, and was just asking if you noted that some here seem to be looking down on saints forced to go the bankruptcy route...

 

[Revmitchell]

sorry about that! BK was short for bankruptcy, and was just asking if you noted that some here seem to be looking down on saints forced to go the bankruptcy route...

I don't know if it is looking down so to speak but they honestly see it as contrary to scripture.

 

[evangelist6589]

Do you believe that bankruptcy is sin? Why?

Depends on the reason. Would you file because of irresponsibility with your finances, or because of an inability to pay back debts due to a loss of a job, a accident, an illness, or other uncontrolled circumstances beyond your control?

 

[evangelist6589]

No.

Since the bankruptcy laws are based on biblical examples, it isn't a sin to declare bankruptcy just like it isn't a sin to be in debt.

Tell that to WinMan.

 

[evangelist6589]

I am one of those who believes that a type of bankruptcy is sin. The one where you halt your debt with the intent to pay it off I don't believe is. The one where you liquefy all assets to pay off what you can and then drop the rest, I believe is sin. My personal belief is that, regardless of the circumstances that brought you there, it is stealing.

My wife and I contemplated bankruptcy at one point. But she got a job and I took a second job (until i joined the military) and we paid off our debt in about 6 years. We went without a lot of things during that time.

Someone provided a service or goods and deserves to get paid. If they aren't, then they are stolen from.

I do not judge those who go into bankruptcy, any more than I judge a single mother. Sin is sin, but it is in the past and we need to move forward.

So if you slipped on ice and broke your ankle and your insurance did not cover the payments and you had large debts that could not be paid due to you being on disability and unable to work, you still would call it a sin to file? Or if you lost your job and could not find one for a long time and you could not pay back your debts it also would be a sin?

 

[agedman]

My husband and I were planning on filing bankruptcy because his business failed (which was our only debt. No credit card debt, cars were paid for, house was nearly paid for.) but God intervened and we settled with the bank for a small amount of cash compared to the loan that we owed. But we went through the whole process first, selling our home, selling our stuff, ect... working with an attorney for months. We did not pile up debt by buying stuff. We drained our savings and retirement accounts trying to save the business, but were not able to. This happened when the housing industry bottomed. So when people want to make a blanket judgment that bankruptcy is a sin, it makes me sick.

Amy,

If you look at my original post, you will see that you and I are in agreement on this matter.

You and your husband did good!

 

[agedman]

There are perhaps several on here that have filed for bankruptcy protection. Course, they won't admit it but I will. My wife and I went bankrupt five years ago. It's over with now.

Conditions were such that we had no choice and there were SEVERAL reasons why we found ourselves in that situation.

Anyone choose to make a judgement call then be my guest.

In the meantime we are helping to raise a great grand child because the mother stays smoked-up and who knows who the father is. This, after raising FOUR grand kids for 10 years.

I would suppose that truth be known, some of you older folks are helping to raise your grand kids, no?

Oh, yeah, almost forgot..., all of 'em were raised attending church.

Stuff happens.

This is so very true, and too often judgmental folks assume a critical attitude that is just all so unnecessary and frankly unbiblical.

The believers I have encountered, who have gone or even contemplated a bankruptcy, are so ashamed that it couldn't be avoided.

You are to be esteemed for stepping in and doing for those who would be destitute without you.

Would that the assemblies would spend less on grand things (buildings, media, social events...) and take care of the widows and orphans as they should.

 

[Sapper Woody]

So if you slipped on ice and broke your ankle and your insurance did not cover the payments and you had large debts that could not be paid due to you being on disability and unable to work, you still would call it a sin to file? Or if you lost your job and could not find one for a long time and you could not pay back your debts it also would be a sin?

I believe so. In fact, what you stated was an almost identical situation that we were in. I got hurt and lost my job at pretty much the same time. 3 hospital visits in a matter of months. It was all out of my control. But to not pay it would have been stealing from the doctors and credit card companies.

See, I believe stealing is stealing. Sin is sin. Regardless of justification. And getting a service or good and not paying for it is stealing, even if you believe that the circumstances leading up to it were out of your control.

 

[Sapper Woody]

This is so very true, and too often judgmental folks assume a critical attitude that is just all so unnecessary and frankly unbiblical.

The believers I have encountered, who have gone or even contemplated a bankruptcy, are so ashamed that it couldn't be avoided.

You are to be esteemed for stepping in and doing for those who would be destitute without you.

Would that the assemblies would spend less on grand things (buildings, media, social events...) and take care of the widows and orphans as they should.

It's amazing to me that calling something a sin is now called judgmental. You can call something a sin without being judgmental. I believe bankruptcy is a sin. But as I said, I don't judge someone who declared bankruptcy any more than I judge a single mother. Call sin sin, then realize that it's over and move forward.

 

[HAMel]

On my way to church the route requires that I drive past a liquor joint. Is that a sin?

...some of you folks are amazing.

agedman, thanks for your kinds words and understanding attitude.

There is nothing wrong with being responsible and paying your bills. My wife and I had an outstanding credit rating until after I retired.

Stuff happens.

 

[righteousdude2]

I'll Admit it....

There are perhaps several on here that have filed for bankruptcy protection. Course, they won't admit it but I will. My wife and I went bankrupt five years ago. It's over with now.

Conditions were such that we had no choice and there were SEVERAL reasons why we found ourselves in that situation.

Anyone choose to make a judgement call then be my guest.

In the meantime we are helping to raise a great grand child because the mother stays smoked-up and who knows who the father is. This, after raising FOUR grand kids for 10 years.

I would suppose that truth be known, some of you older folks are helping to raise your grand kids, no?

Oh, yeah, almost forgot..., all of 'em were raised attending church.

Stuff happens.

....we did likewise following my forced medical retirement in 2000. I went from close to $5,000.00 a month to less than $1,200.00 while I waited for workers comp to quit their games, and SSDI to be approved. It was the only way we could save our home.

It was something I regretted doing, and burned through all of my savings, nearly two years worth of pay, doing! It saved our home, and allowed us breathing room!

One never knows what tomorrow may hold for them, and to be honest, I was thankful for this lawful protection!

I comend you HAMel for your honesty, and pray that with our candid confessions, others will do likewise! :wavey:

 

[saturneptune]

My husband and I were planning on filing bankruptcy because his business failed (which was our only debt. No credit card debt, cars were paid for, house was nearly paid for.) but God intervened and we settled with the bank for a small amount of cash compared to the loan that we owed. But we went through the whole process first, selling our home, selling our stuff, ect... working with an attorney for months. We did not pile up debt by buying stuff. We drained our savings and retirement accounts trying to save the business, but were not able to. This happened when the housing industry bottomed. So when people want to make a blanket judgment that bankruptcy is a sin, it makes me sick.

100% agreed. Reminds me of those who are experts on what it is like to be a missionary and never set foot on foreign soil, or know what it is like to defend this nation and never served one day.