"Bapticostal" Challenges Baptists on Tongues

I understand the connotation complicates the issue. I don't typically use the term anyway. My point was simply that the author didn't have to mean what the connotations might indicate.
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Of course, it doesn't actually limit God. I'm using it as an expression similar to this verse:

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

We all know that what we say can't actually make God a liar. I meant "limiting God" in the same fashion.

 

Whoa, now, Fly Boy!!! Cool your jets, now!!

Grady is editor of Charisma---a leading Charismatic mag---I look at it this way---a Charismatic lean writing of SBC "shortcomings" is sorta like CEO of Toyota writing of Nissan's failabilities----a clear bias lean toward Prayer language is what Grady showed me!! Patterson has his head on straight---he can spot a "boggie" from the spiritual altitude he's flyin'

 

I've just read this thread with interest, and I don't have time to comment in detail. However, as a missionary I'd like to say that I've never seen "tongues" used in modern times as in Acts 2, where the cross-cultural missionary didn't have to go to language school but won souls with a miraculous language.

In fact, some Pentecostal missionaries went to the same Japanese language school I did. Also, after the original Azusa St. "revival" of 1906, the original Pentecostals sent out missionaries assuming they would receive a miraculous gift of tongues, but they didn't. Therefore, the Pentecostal sending agency changed its policy to include language school. I can document this, but don't have time right now.:type:

 

I believe, if you will look at the article, and the subsequent posting of comments on the message board after it, what you will see being advocated in this article is the Pentecostal doctrine of speaking in tongues as evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit, a doctrine that isn't consistent with what the Bible teaches.

Dr. McKissic was not teaching about tongues as evidence of the baptism. He was teaching about the sovereign gift of tongues primarily as a language of prayer. He correctly pointed out that it is a spiritual gift bestowed to meet a need, not as evidence of the indwelling spirit. He also correctly pointed out that all believers are baptized with the Holy Spirit at salvation, because it is the Spirit that sanctifies and justifies us with God, but not all believers will speak in tongues. In addition, he correctly pointed out that it is mainly a language of prayer which takes place in private between a believer and God, and edifies the believer, as opposed to being a rare or exceptional experience in public worship, where the church needs to be edified by the gift of prophecy, not tongues.

Pentecostals and Charismatics are in error when they believe that manifestations of the Spirit that were associated only with its very first introduction into the church as a whole at Pentecost, as promised by Jesus, are for all Christians all the time. That is neither consistent with what the scripture teaches, nor with the experience of the Christian church throughout its history. The teachings regarding tongues as a sign of the "baptism," and other manifestations, such as being "slain in the Spirit," are not Biblically supported. Likewise, those Baptists who insist that this particular gift was suspended upon the completion of the New Testament Canon, (or the apostolic age), are also on ground not supported by Scripture. They must go beyond what the Bible says to make their point. The Bible clearly teaches that there is a gift of tongues, that it has a specific way of being practiced, and it has a specific purpose. There is no passage that teaches this gift would be replaced by the completion of the canon, or at the end of the apostolic age.

Apparently, there are those in Baptist life who are willing to keep their beliefs within the bounds of scriptural teaching, and accept those who speak in tongues, mainly in prayer. There are also Charismatics and Pentecostals who are increasingly realizing that tongues is not a gift for all believers, and is a sovereign gift of God.

 

Well said, JM.

I did not agree with the article entirely because I reject pentecostal theology.

 

One of my linguistics professors said he regularly receives calls from these people wanting him to identify the "language" they are speaking.

 

Agreed, this doctrine is not consistent with Bible teaching. R. A. Torrey proved that every time the baptism (or filling, or enduement, etc.) of the Spirit is mentioned in the Bible, it is for serving God. "There is not one single passage in the Bible, either in the Old Testament or the New Testament, where the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is spoken of, where it is not connected with testimony or service" (The Holy Spirit: Who He Is and What He Does, p. 118). John R. Rice, following Torrey, proved much the same thing in his book, The Power of Pentecost or the Fullness of the Spirit.

On the other hand, there are cases in Acts where those who were filled with the Spirit did not speak in tongues but did witness for Christ, such as Acts 4:31-33: "31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all."

Also, as I have alluded, the tongues in Acts 2 (whatever the tongues in Corinthians are) are in the context very clearly foreign languages, miraculously given. If that kind of tongues are a sign of the baptism of the Spirit, then no Pentecostal missionary has had the baptism. They all have to go to language school, just like I did! Boy, I wish I had had the gift of tongues to learn this crazy Japanese language! :smilewinkgrin:

 

Annnnnd, does he ever do so?? :laugh:

 

How sad...

I am utterly sickened and heartbroken over the flippant and laxidasical attitude towards the Pentecostal Doctrine that is being allowed into the Southern Baptist Convention. :tear:

Brothers and Sisters in Christ, I adjure you, this movement is of the Devil, who seeks to distroy the minds and hearts of the true believers. This doctrine is so flawed that even the most simple minded person could see right through it. It all goes back to the Original deception the the Bible, Found in Genesis, "Yea, God Hath Said"...

My prayer is that the Lord would begin to open the eyes of those involved and they would begin to question the lies being taught to them and that they would begin to search the scriptures and see for themselves that they have been duped. raying:


I know this, because I spent 21 years in the Petecostal Movement. and after 21 years, 4 different Churches, 3 different versions of the Gospel, (Normal mixed with Signs and Wonders, Properity, and Lovey Dovey Gospel (no judgement or righteousness)) I decided I needed to really search the scriptures for myself and really study... and after 9 Months of Praying, Studying, Soul Searching, Fact Finding, and a little crying... I parted ways with that Liberal, Alexanderian version of Christianity for good. Thanks be to God for his Mighty Word and Thanks be to God for people who have dared to print the TRUTH about this movement of confusion on the internet! :thumbs:

-WTD

 

I have read statements by linguists who have studied "tongues." All agree that the babblings of charismatism never even remotely approach the complexity of the simplest human language. That is to say, there's nothing about those utterances that resembles a language.

(But, of course, JoJ knew that )

 

When you straddle the fence like that, everyone is left wondering what you believe. Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel.

 

They are so frustrated when he can't help them, since they don't want their "gift" to go to waste. Sad.

 

Well, hopefully it gets them thinking anyway.

 

Exactly, Pipedude. The tongues I've heard lack the complexity of even a 3rd world tribal language. Of course, the only thing a tribal language lacks in complexity that, say, an Indo-European language (English, German, French, etc.) has, is a large number of vocabulary words having to do with technology.:type:

 

Sorry Pipedude, I speak the truth. and I speak it from experience. It may sound like I'm being harsh, here and on my website. But my heart does truly grieve for those trapped in that false religion. :tear:

God Bless,

WTD :wavey:

 

My heart grieves for Baptist pastors who have had trouble with tongues-speakers, and I too speak from experience. This is a doctrine that just seems to want to share itself where it is not wanted. If a tongues speaker were to go to a church and keep his mouth shut about it, maybe no harm would be done, but there is an "evangelistic" zeal that wants everyone else to speak in tongues. Sheep stealing is endemic to most Charismatic believers IMO.

Twice I have had tongues-speakers "evangelistically" attack my church. The first time we lost two of our most faithful believers. The second time some years later I was ready when once again our two most faithful believers (two others) had tongues-speakers move next door who tried to "evangelize" them to go to their church. A series of Bible studies solved the problem.

 

I just last week read John Piper's "Signs and Wonders: Then and Now"
http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByTopic/87/1498_Signs_and_Wonders_Then_and_Now/

I guess I was surprised to read Piper state, "I am one of those Baptist General Conference people who believes that 'signs and wonders' and all the spiritual gifts of 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 are valid for today..."

I was also surprised in D. A. Carson's "Showing the Spirit: A Theological Exposition of 1 Corinthians 12-14" when he made an argument for the possibility of tongues being the gibberish heard among Charismatics today, and that since they are (or are supposed to be) heavenly languages, they should not be held to the same criteria as human languages.

I respect both of these men, though I don't agree with them on these matters. But when some who are obviously not charismatic and obviously students of the Word make some of these arguments, it certainly gives pause.

 

I'm usually not a Piper man, but I applaud that article.

 

The thing is, most "signs and wonders" are fairly easy to fake, as a fair share Charismatic "evangelists" know. However, the truly Biblical gift of tongues, foreign languages as in Acts 2, is impossible to fake. Either someone understands you miraculously in their own language and gets saved, or they don't.

So, can anyone give me a documented case of a miraculous gift of languages that led to the salvation souls cross-culturally? I'll be waiting--a long time I'm sure.