Bapticostal Questions

[cindig]

Fat Eagle,
You never look to an experience to prove anything, you look to the Word of God. Phillip is 100% correct. What would be the purpose of someone speaking gibberish in church? The Bible says it is for the unbelievers, I think that it would freak them out, not make them believe. Anyway, they have no new revelations, everything we need is in the Bible.

You also speak of a person that once they are saved can turn away and become un-saved. My Bible says nothing can pry me out of God's hand. I can't keep myself, only God can. You would be saying that Satan is stronger than God. You say to be saved then loose it you can never be saved again, I suppose to you that is the unpardonable sin.

I don't want to come across as being rude, but, you can say you are Baptist all day long, but you are nothing like any Baptist I have ever known. Why would you want to claim the title if you believe nothing like them?

Did everyone here that believes in tongues realize that they didn't even begin since the Bible days until the early 1900's? A woman pastor in California started the etire charismatic movement. What do you call your private prayer language? Is it a Spiritual gift? The Spiritual gifts were for the edification of the entire church, not only you alone. And they were a known language, that is very plain in the Bible.

 

[cindig]

One more question. Do you believe that the private prayer language is something everyone can achieve?

 

[Phillip]

Thank you for the support, cindig, a lot of people like to keep quiet on issues like this. This is why we are seeing so many problems within churches today. "Tolerance of other denominations" is now the norm. Not standing up for what we believe.

Great Post.

You also reminded me of another point I made earlier that the Baptiscostals said would not happen, but apparently it has.

I made a post earlier stating that if you start accepting a few Pentecostal doctrines, more will creep in. Now, obviously the loss of salvation is a "Bapticostal doctrine".

If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, well, do we need to say more?

 

[Phillip]

In adding to this, note 1 Corinthians 14:

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.


Now, WHAT is Paul trying to say. In context, verse ten says there are many voices in the world, none without significance.

These are foreign languages, pure and simple.

Paul then says two people with different langauges without understanding each other will be like a barbarian (foreigner). So, IN THE CHURCH, WHERE EVERYBODY SPEAKS COMMON LANGUAGES, Paul asks them to pray to have the gift of prophecy (teaching, and so forth), rather than a gift of other or unknown languages, because it simply does no good to have a gift of speaking Japanese, if your church consists of English speaking people.

It would be a nice gift to be able to preach to a Japanese group, but in context Paul is talking to the church or Corinth where people are ABUSING gifts. So, IN THE CHURCH, Paul would rather say five words that are understood, than many that cannot be understood, because then only God can understand you (regardless of the language). Unless, of course, you have someone that can translate YOUR PREACHING or TEACHING.

He is saying, don't stand up there and speak Spanish, when your church is English, and if you HAVE to speak an "unknown tongue" (Spanish in my example), then have a translator, or you are just talking between yourself and God--not your church members.

Only in Chapter 13 verse 1 is the "Angel's language" mentioned, and again, you are not reading those verses in context. Paul is saying "If I can do this, or that" it does me no good without love for the people I am preaching to.

This is really simple stuff, not something to build a doctrine on of confusion and babbling in the church.

We had a Mexican Pastor speak at our church two months ago. He used a translator and it edified the church. If he had NOT used a translator, then he would have only edified himself and God because they are the only two who would have known what he was saying "IN OUR CHURCH of English speaking people."

Verse 13 says, you are so zealous to have a gift, then use one that is useful to your church (Prophecying, teaching, etc.) not use of a foreign language, just because you can do it.

Is this REALLY so difficult?

Again, you accept this gift, you go down the other road of Pentecostalism. I already mentioned that Bapticostals can be lost again, (Pentecostal doctrine), and I was also told that Baptism of the Holy Spirit can take place after salvation. (Another Pentecostal doctrine.)

So, now, even though Bapticostals have denied going down this path, and claim to be Baptist who just believe in "gifts"; it appears they already accept most of the Pentecostal doctrines. So, what do we have? Pentecostals calling themselves Baptist.

This is just my humble opinion, but I am not going to back down from Baptist doctrine. That is the reason I became a Baptist in the first place, it is the closest I can find to true New Testament Churches.

 

[cindig]

AMEN!

 

[cindig]

A very informative site is Baptist Bible Believers Website. Go to Doctrinal Studies then go to page 2. The Charsmatic movement and Strange History of Pentecostalism and part #2 and Part #3 is very good. I think it would be a very good idea for everyone to spend some time reading all of the posts. YIsrael (the poster) has spent many hours explaining the doctrine.
A very good site!

 

[cindig]

My husband was brought up Assembly of God, I was the "good" little wife and went with him for years. We are now Southern Baptist (last 7 years) he agrees 100% with our beliefs. Well, so much that he is the chairman of the deacons.
I will never live that again. And, he wouldn't either.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Ben W:
It has already been established on the BB that members of the Pentecostal Freewill Baptist and the Full Gospel Baptist Churches are welcome to post!

hmmmmmmm...I missed that, got the link Ben?

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by cindig:
My husband was brought up Assembly of God, I was the "good" little wife and went with him for years. We are now Southern Baptist (last 7 years) he agrees 100% with our beliefs. Well, so much that he is the chairman of the deacons.
I will never live that again. And, he wouldn't either.

Thank you so much for your testimony.

To hear this from someone who has "BEEN THERE", really makes a difference.

My pastor grew up as a Pentecostal. He attributes his salvation to a pentecostal pastor who would come to his house once a week in a wheel-chair and witness to him. But, then he is quick to say, that after he studied the Bible, he realized that many core doctrines are wrong.

Not only are they wrong, but they focus on unimportant things, such as self-edification while speaking-in-tongues, etc.

The loss of salvation, finally got him. He said he got so tired of wondering just how much sin he could commit to still get into heaven. To him; that was not a path as described by Paul where we look forward to our "rest" and "praising of Jesus after we die." after the fight on earth is over.

If we have to concern ourselves with our own salvation all of the time, how can we witness and be sincere, when we cannot even be sure that we have a reward with Christ.

 

[R. Charles Blair]

Just one quick word based on II Cor. 12:1-4. Some say they are speaking "heaven's language" when a
"tongue" is uttered. If so, they are breaking heaven's law (v. 4). Consider well before you make unscriptural and even anti-scriptural claims
to "higher knowledge," etc. - In the spirit of the
One Who came both to unify and to divide.

Best - R. Charles Blair - Ro. 8:28

 

[Phillip]

Interesting point R. Charles.

 

[Plain ol' Ralph]

Originally posted by Ben W:
Bapticostals are Baptists!

It has already been established on the BB that members of the Pentecostal Freewill Baptist and the Full Gospel Baptist Churches are welcome to post!

Maybe by the most liberal of definitions, but not by any rational and freethinking realist, esle "icostal" wouldn't replace "ist".

Charismatic is distinctly not Baptist, just that the Pentecostals want to be Baptists to further their agenda ti infiltrate the ranks of Baptists.

I don't fall for that, friend, and I know many Baptist churches that have gone Charismatic, and they don't keep "Baptist" on there church sign long after that.

Charismatic teachings are anti-Baptist in doctrine.

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by Plain ol' Ralph:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ben W:
Bapticostals are Baptists!

It has already been established on the BB that members of the Pentecostal Freewill Baptist and the Full Gospel Baptist Churches are welcome to post!

Maybe by the most liberal of definitions, but not by any rational and freethinking realist, esle "icostal" wouldn't replace "ist".

Charismatic is distinctly not Baptist, just that the Pentecostals want to be Baptists to further their agenda ti infiltrate the ranks of Baptists.

I don't fall for that, friend, and I know many Baptist churches that have gone Charismatic, and they don't keep "Baptist" on there church sign long after that.

Charismatic teachings are anti-Baptist in doctrine. </font>[/QUOTE]AMEN! POR, we certainly agree on this one! Not only that, this is where 90% of the non-denominational churches come from. Pentecostals that don't want to use the name "Pentecostal" in their name, so we go BEYOND a denomination. We are JUST A BIBLE CHURCH (that believes in charismatic worship, loss of salvation and later Baptism of the Holy Spirit.)

 

[Phillip]

I am quite amazed this bulletin board is liberal enough to allow Pentecostals to post calling themselves Bapticostals. The word "Bapticostal" obviously means something besides "Baptist".

Oh well, I'm not an administrator, but if I was, whack, whack, clip, clip.

 

[Plain ol' Ralph]

Thou shouldest have said, "Snip, snip"

 

[Ben W]

Originally posted by Phillip:
I am quite amazed this bulletin board is liberal enough to allow Pentecostals to post calling themselves Bapticostals. The word "Bapticostal" obviously means something besides "Baptist".

Oh well, I'm not an administrator, but if I was, whack, whack, clip, clip.

What is it that makes you feel that you have the right to suggest who posts and who does not?

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Plain ol' Ralph:
Maybe the fruits of the Spirit rather ought to be sought after than the gifts? But then I am certain that statement will be ravished by the "spiritual"

Why does it have to be either ,or?
God has placed both fruit and gifts in his people and in His church.
I would hate to be in a church that had no fruit but I would also hate be in a church that had no gifts.

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by Phillip:
I am quite amazed this bulletin board is liberal enough to allow Pentecostals to post calling themselves Bapticostals.

And I'm quite amazed that this BB seems to be so conservative that we're even having a discussion about whether charismatic Baptists can post.

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Matt Black:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Phillip:
I am quite amazed this bulletin board is liberal enough to allow Pentecostals to post calling themselves Bapticostals.

And I'm quite amazed that this BB seems to be so conservative that we're even having a discussion about whether charismatic Baptists can post.

Yours in Christ

Matt </font>[/QUOTE]As has been stated before: No one stated that they can't post. It is a matter of where they should post. If their belief system approaches that of Charismatics rather than that of Baptists then they ought to be posting in non-Baptist forums. It is clear, just by going to their web-sites that they do not adhere to historic Baptist distinctives. So they should not be posting here in the Baptist only forums. Again, no one stated that they should not be posting at all. It is just a matter of where.
DHK

 

[Ben W]

Yet a number of Bapticostals are with the Southern Baptist Convention, thus they are welcome in the Baptist only forum as are any other Baptists.