Baptism as a requirement for membership?

I appreciate the first part of you post Phillip, but obviously, as you can see from my last post, I do not agree with you about Baptist succession.

The scriptures give us a patternand if that chain has been broken, then God's Church ceases to be here today. Again, you must have a proper administrator in order to carry out the ordinances of the church and one who is not baptized by a proper administrator is not qualified to join in those ordinances or become a proper administrator himself.

Now, I can not prove what I believe because the "remnant" has always been just that, and the Catholic Church tried their best from the start to destroy anything associated with worshippers outside their own, but I also can not prove that the Bible is truth, nor can I prove that God really exists. It is by faith that I believe these things that God has set before me.

 

This is not a debate site so I hesitate at saying something that might open a debate; so we may have to agree to disagree.

Here are my problems with church succession and maybe you can answer those satisfactorily for me.

1. Obviously, if you believe in church sucession then it would have to be a Primitive Baptist Church and therefore all other churches are incorrect and unqualified, is this true?

2. Where do you find historical data that church succession comes down through the Primitive Baptist Church.

3. Do you claim a different line of succession that that of other Baptist Churches such as the SBC?

4. How do you believe in succession when it only takes a single unsaved person to be Baptising people, and we all know this has happened in the past in all church families?

Again, I am not debating here, but I personally have a problem getting past these particular questions, maybe you can help clarify these and I will do my best to keep an open mind. Is that fair?

 

I was in the wrong section. This is obviously a debate section, but to be perfectly honest, I am not so much debating as trying to obtain satisfactory answers to my questions.

 

Bro. James:

I am Missionary Baptist and we hold the same views that you have expressed are those of the Primitive Baptists. We also believe that baptism by the proper authority (one of the Lord's churches) and by a proper administrator(an ordained minister of the church) is essential to validate the baptism.

The command to baptize was given to the church that Christ established, not to every organization that has come into existence since the Lord ascended, or that was in existence before He was born.

Likewise, we do not accept alien emersion. However, if a person comes to us requesting membership from another church that does not wear the name "missionary baptist", we will visit that church and if they are found to be of like faith and order, we will accept them on a credit of a letter.

The sad thing about Baptists is that the name no longer distinguishes the doctrines and practices that "baptist" churches endorse. If a church wants to maintain their credibility for the doctrines and practices that distinguish them from other churches within or without the broad denominational categories, it is entirely appropriate to investigate and challenge a prospective member's baptism if it is found it was performed by an unsound church.

 

Sure does James, although I find the answer troubling and very exclusionary, I understand it. It appears the PB have a very high view of self and a low view of others. If someone could show me where our church is not an orderly church according to the Scripture than we would change. I cannot imagine where you would find that only PB are an acceptable expression of the NT church.

Anyways, I genuinely believe the day will come when we get to be with our Savior that all these things will be clear to you and me both.

Until that day, keep walking in Jesus.

Bro Tony

 

Sounds similar to papal successsion. Where is The Way today? Are they now Primitve Baptists and have changed their name.

Acts 9:1,2, "Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem."

Acts 19:9, "But when some were becoming hardened and disobedient, speaking evil of the Way before the people, he withdrew from them and took away the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus."

Acts 19:23, "About that time there occurred no small disturbance concerning the Way."

acts 24:13-15, "Nor can they prove to you the charges of which they now accuse me. "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."

Acts 24:22, "But Felix, having a more exact knowledge about the Way, put them off, saying, "When Lysias the commander comes down, I will decide your case."

So are you saying in the previous verses the church called the Way is now called Primitive Baptist. If so when did they change the name?

 

How do some 100 churches that Paul established on 3 different missionary churches fit into succession, seeing that they were all contemporary with each other? Some of them were in areas of the world that probably never had seen John the Baptist. Or was that just one big denomination back then?
BTW, In 1Cor.1, Paul states that Lord sent him not to baptize, and he thanks God that he baptized none of them.
DHK

 

Yes I agree with the question:

Baptism is required for church membership in general. And even more so for us as Baptists.

It is not necessary to be baptized to be saved. The thief on the cross is an example.

In Christ ...

 

The apostles were sent on the authority of Christ, Head of the church, to preach the word and, in doing so, also baptized converts, even Paul baptized a few, and founded individual congregations with those people. These early churches were biblical because Christ had given authority to his apostles, specifically, to carry out this task. I don't believe the "Great Commission" exists for our ministers today, and the apostles, because of the authority granted them by Christ himself, had authority to establish churches in the manner in which they did. Today, a new church must have an arm extended from another church in order to be recognized as a true, scriptural church.

DHK, I don't really think you can separate the very early churches as they were still, for the most part, kept in line as long as the apostles were still around.

Once they were gone is when all of the trouble and splits really began to happen.

gb, yes, I believe that the true church is flourishing and, at least in America, presently goes by the name Primitive Baptist. It used to be just Baptist, and before that was Particular Baptist, and before that was AnaBaptist, etc.

If the doctrine, practice, and authority is there, then it is a true New Testament Church.

Bro. Tony, I just have yet to find another group of churches, apart from ours, who still hold to biblical beliefs.

I am sure there are MANY things that our churches would diverge on scripturally. Can you send me your Articles of Faith, if you have them, and I should be able to show you right away some differences.

If anyone would like, please let me know and I can either PM ours or post them here.(I'm the clerk, so I keep them all on file in the computer; which is good because I have no earthly idea how to use a scanner or anything. )

PS Bro. Tony and others, I don't mean to sound like I'm belittling anyone or their church or beliefs, but these are my beliefs and they are as strong as yours or anyone elses. I don't take any pride in my belief that we are the remnant, but rather thankfulness unto God that He has granted me a place to abide among His people while in this world. I am also thankful that He has granted you all a certain knowledge that others on this earth do not have. I think that is what it boils down to. He has given some understanding in some ways and others understanding in other ways. We can only work with the understanding that He gives us and I think that each of us is doing just that in our respective churches.

I just want each of you to know that I could not have more love and respect for you even if you were Primitive Baptist, and I have no problem calling each of you my brethren in Christ.

God bless.

Bro. James

[ February 25, 2005, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: Bro. James Reed ]

 

The doctrine of having to be baptized to be a member of a church is derived from Acts:

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

What these people seem to miss is:

Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The Lord adds to the church, not water baptism!!!

 

Adam, I think it is wise to talk to the pastor directly about it. I am not trying to say that deacons do not know what they are talking about, but sometimes they have their own thoughts that are different from the actual church body. Let us know what happens...

 

If the church has something to do with Willow Creek, put on your running shoes and. . .run!

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/billhybels.htm

 

A well known Baptist church goes about membership as follows: If you are currently a member of another Southern Baptist Church, we will receive you as a member upon pomise of a letter from the church.
By statement of faith: If you know in your heart that you have previously experienced salvation by receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, we will be happy to receive you. It will necessary for you to be baptized at ---------- if you have never been baptized by immersion after your salvation experience of if you were baptized in a church which holds a different view of salvation, baptism, or eternal security.
Makes perfect sense to me.