Baptism before 18 yrs. old

Everyone, please notice that FollowMeHome's profile says that she is newly converted to Baptist belief and that she is here to learn about Baptist beliefs. So please be gentle with her.

 

Paul never believed he was alive before the law spiritually. You are so misusing Romans 7. When Paul says he was alive he means that he was doing the normal things of life, he was living out his selfish desires and things of the flesh. It does not mean he was not accountable for his actions!!


I did not put words in your mouth I quoted you exactly as you stated it. Your argument is flawed, both in being unlogical and unscriptural.

 

1. No I do not believe baptism saves them.

2. God showed me I was a sinner. But that does not mean I was not a sinner before I was shown I was.


According to you I was not a sinner until God showed me I was, if I was not a sinner then what need was there for God to show me I was?

Now that definitely does not make since!!! If they are saved before they are born(as YOU have stated you believe) and they are not sinners, and commit no sin(also what YOU have stated you believe) then how would it be fair for God to condemn them for every sin they have ever committed. If they did not know they were sinning and are not held accountable for those sins before the law(as YOU have stated) then why does that change when they recieve the law. I think you need to re-evaluate your defens Bob and make sure it does not contradict itself.

 

Talk about being confused.

Paul said he was alive without the law and the Commandments came and sin revived and I died. I guess you have to be able to understand that Paul didn't die the natural death so he must of died a spiritual death and if he was alive before he died this spiritual death then he must of been talking about a spiritual life. The children we are talking about probably could understand that, if it was explained as I have explained it to you.:type:
If Paul died a death and we know he did not die a natural death so it could not be talking about his natural life. Study to prove yourself a workman.

 

BD--

Are you saying that your baptizing of your children guarantees that they are one of the elect? Or are they one of the elect because they are your child? Does infant baptism for you require God to bring your child to Himself? If so where is the grace? Your above statement makes it sound like God is obligated to save your child because you baptized them. I have heard of some reformed believers who see baptism as the NT circumsion, ie...bringing them into the covenant. That is a belief without any Scriptural foundation. NT baptism is always for believers, not for those who would be believers regardless of age.

Bro Tony

 

Bro Tony God is not required to do anything. What was the reason for the circmcision? It was a sign of God's covenant with His people. Baptism is the same sign. Baptism does not "guarantee" anything. What it does is if we as parents follow God's commandments in rasing our child that He will keep His promise in bringing our child to Him as one of His own.

 

Bob all the above is what YOU have stated you believe so the confusion lies with you. Would you please use Romans 7 correctly.

Look I can quote a verse too!! This is proof that we are sinners from birth...

There once was a man named Job who came from the land of Nod.

 

BD,

I understand your belief. I just dont find what you teach in the Scripture. The Scripture does not teach infant baptism as either being required or optional. Water baptism is not a covenant sign like OT circumcision, Abraham was commanded to circumcise every male child as a sign of the covenant, we are not any place in the Scripture commanded to baptize our infants as a sign of the new covenant. NT baptism is for believers only---it is an ordinance of the Church, in being so only those who are in the Church, by believing in Jesus can biblically be baptized. Baptism of infants is not God's command so it cannot be part of keeping His promise in bringing our children to Him. Reform theology (which I dont agree with) by its very nature cannot have any requirement of God to bring our children to Him. Reformed theology doesnt even allow you to know if your child is one of the elect or not. For there to be complete grace and no works involved then your raising your child as God commands or having them baptized as an infant does not assure anything.

Bro Tony

 

Children are sinners. Show me a child that doesn't sin and I'll show you a pig that can fly. A perfect example of a child disobeying his/her parents is in a grocery store or at their house: Child wants something, parents say 'no', child takes it any way. That kid just disobeyed his/her parents, which is a sin.
Colossians 3:23, "For all have sinned..." Children sin just like me and you do. They can cheat, lie, steal, etc. just like an older person can. Colossians 3:20, "Children, obey your parents...." Why would God command this if children didn't sin?
Infant baptism....hmmm....I have yet read an instance in the Bible where there ever was a baby getting baptized. Mark 1:10, "And coming straightway up out of the water...." This was when Jesus Christ was being baptized and clearly says that He came 'up out of the water'. You can't really do that if you were sprinkled.
Baptism has NOTHING to do with salvation. I don't want to repeat myself too much so look back at my previous post: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=30153&page=2
If anyone knew how to get people saved it was the Apostle Paul (outside of Jesus Christ). 1 Corinthians 1:17, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." Paul separates baptism from salvation clearly here and this is just one of many verses.

 

Romans, chapter 7
"7": What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

"8": But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

"9": For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

"10": And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

"11": For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Ok, not my words but Paul's and are they ever easy to understand.

If you don't believe baptism save then why do it? You may cause your child to settle down on something short of Salvation.

 

clean1;
Show me the Scriptures for little children to repent please.

 

zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Okay, let's all jump on me at once.

I was Catholic until recently. I have joined a Baptist church. Apart from complete amnesia, some of my Catholic beliefs will stay with me for life. This may be one of them.

To someone in this thread who said their children accepted Jesus as their savior at age four.........How can that be? A four year old cannot understand salvation. I don't even remember being four.

Again, the water used in MY baptism was not ordinary tap water. It was blessed by a priest and became Holy Water. I do believe that the water of baptism washes away sin.

John the Baptist did not actually baptize Jesus because Jesus was free of sin. If you need a scripture quote, I'll look it up for you.

 

That's because baptism is a sign of obedience; it's a sign of death to self.

And, although I was not saved until I was 8 or 9, I have memories from when I was 2 years old, in the house that I moved out of before I was 3, including some nightmares that I had, my dog, etc. I can give you quite a bit of detail. My wife has memories from when she was 4 (but, not back as far as when her father died), and she has had a saving knowledge of Jesus as long as she can remember.

I think that 4 year olds understanding may be the exception, but it's certainly not unheard of.

 

Some people on this thread believe your 4 year olds had nothing to confess about becasue their sin was not actually sin. Those same people would say that until your children reach some mythical age of accountabilty they can do what ever they want and it is not sinful. So your children actually asked forgiveness for nothing.

I do not believe that way, I believe children are sinful from birth, but infant baptism in no way saves them.

 

Follow me home, I am sorry everyone is jumping on you, I too was once Catholic and understand how hard it can be to let go of some of their beliefs. Keep searching for the truth and they will slowly but surely fall away.

 

Bro. Bob,
Look at Mark 2:17, "....I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." This is Jesus speaking here. Since children are sinners, just like everyone else, then Jesus called them to repent too. 2 Peter 3:9, "....that ALL should come to repentance." That includes children.

 

Clean 1 I have tried telling Bob that already, unless it says children or infants specifically he will not listen. Bob believes all actually means all adults above the mythical age of accountability.

 

I'm not sure what the magic number of 18 is supose to mean. If God saves a child, then that child knows whats going on, they have the same Holy Spirit the rest of us do. If a person is saved and desires baptism, then they should be baptized. They are desiring to be obedient to God, did the eunich know all about baptism and all the ins and outs of it? (being just converted, maybe not). Yet he desired to be obedient. The first act of obedience God asks for after we are saved is to be baptized.
Do we have the right to stop anyone born again from being baptized, if in fact they really are saved, or we believe they are saved (for children that is).
Is this a judgement of the child's ability to understand, or of God's ability to teach a child through the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Having that Holy Spirit makes us able to understand. Salvation and baptism are not as complex as we like to think it is, after all, if your daughters are saved, then it is so simple even a child can understand it.