Brother Bob
New Member
Its not out of context. If you are having trouble understanding I will try and help. That would be the Christian thing to do.
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Baptism before 18 yrs. old
- Thread starter Gina B
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Brother Bob
New Member
Brother Bob said:
Interesting way to interpret this verse. I take it your understanding of this is the the reference to being such as little children is a reference to their sinlessness as opposed to their easy faith.
What is the thing that is commonly associated with children that we lose by the time we reach adulthood? Is it Godly purity and sinlessness, or childlike faith? I think the picture that is being drawn here should relate to the known characteristic in a child that is missing in an adult. Therefore, I don't see how you can interpret this the way you do.
Dave
Brother Bob
New Member
Well Dave; I understand what you are saying about being "humble", I think is what you are saying and that has merit, but what I am referring to and how I arrive at my answer to this Scripture is "such is". In other words already is. Maybe that will explain my positon.
Yes, I am thinking that a literal interpretation would be that the verse is referring to the child-like faith. I do not observe pure motives in even the smallest child. Nobody has to teach a child to lie, or defy its mother and father, or be selfish. These things come naturally as a result of our sinful nature. These things are observed in the smallest of children. These things are all sin.
To say that the child bears no guilt is to say that God does not attribute this sin to the child. If so, then why does David confess in Psalm 51 "In sin did my mother conceive me". He is referring to the sin he bore from birth. It is born in him, as in all of us.
"Blessed is he to whom the Lord will not impute iniquity" What does that refer to? This is talking about the righteous according to the context. Never does the scripture say that the Lord will not impute iniquity to a child. The law is within our hearts, placed there by God, so that none are with excuse. This is in Romans. I do not have time to look up the verse right now, but maybe you are familiar with it? In any case, I have never seen where an age of accountability is supported in scripture. "For that all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God". That all is all inclusive.
To say that the child bears no guilt is to say that God does not attribute this sin to the child. If so, then why does David confess in Psalm 51 "In sin did my mother conceive me". He is referring to the sin he bore from birth. It is born in him, as in all of us.
"Blessed is he to whom the Lord will not impute iniquity" What does that refer to? This is talking about the righteous according to the context. Never does the scripture say that the Lord will not impute iniquity to a child. The law is within our hearts, placed there by God, so that none are with excuse. This is in Romans. I do not have time to look up the verse right now, but maybe you are familiar with it? In any case, I have never seen where an age of accountability is supported in scripture. "For that all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God". That all is all inclusive.
Brother Bob
New Member
I take it to mean you will have to become humble as that child but whatsoever. It still is saying the Child is saved and nothing about being baptized. Even you seem to be saying the child was saved if I understand you right. As far as sin. Where there is no law sin is not imputed. What do you think Paul meant when he said "I was once alive without the law." The Law was around all his natural life so there was a time he was alive without the Law even though the Law was in effect to the household of Israel. When was that? I say when he was a child where sin was not imputed but when the Law entered him he became accountable.
As far as David; It says "his mother conceived him in sin". David was not even around when he was conceived now was he?
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Brother Bob
New Member
Apostle Paul was never alive physically when the Law was not around. You err.
Brother Bob
New Member
Thanks Clean1;
That is a lot of Scripture and explanation.
That is a lot of Scripture and explanation.
Brother Bob
New Member
Why can't you see when Paul said; "I died" he was still alive physically so it had to be spiritually he died when the Law entered into him. If it was talking naturally when even you agree the Law was around how could he be live and the law enter and he died yet naturally he was still alive. Study Study, pray for an understanding !!!
There is no way of coming to that knowledge of sin, which is necessary to repentance, and therefore to peace and pardon, but by trying our hearts and lives by the law. In his own case the apostle would not have known the sinfulness of his thoughts, motives, and actions, but by the law. That perfect standard showed how wrong his heart and life were, proving his sins to be more numerous than he had before thought, but it did not contain any provision of mercy or grace for his relief.
He is ignorant of human nature and the perverseness of his own heart, who does not perceive in himself a readiness to fancy there is something desirable in what is out of reach. We may perceive this in our children, though self-love makes us blind to it in ourselves. The more humble and spiritual any Christian is, the more clearly will he perceive that the apostle describes the true believer, from his first convictions of sin to his greatest progress in grace, during this present imperfect
state. St. Paul was once a Pharisee, ignorant of the spirituality of the law, having some correctness of character, without knowing his inward depravity. When the commandment came to his conscience by the convictions of the Holy Spirit, and he saw what it demanded, he found his sinful mind rise against it. He felt at the same time the evil of sin, his own sinful state, that he was unable to fulfil the law, and was like a criminal when condemned. But though the evil principle in the human heart
produces sinful motions, and the more by taking occasion of the commandment; yet the law is holy, and the commandment holy, just, and good. It is not favourable to sin, which it pursues into the heart, and discovers and reproves in the inward motions thereof. Nothing is so good but a corrupt and vicious nature will pervert it. The same heat that softens wax, hardens clay. Food or medicine when taken wrong, may cause death, though its nature is to nourish or to heal. The law may cause death
through man's depravity, but sin is the poison that brings death. Not the law, but sin discovered by the law, was made death to the apostle. The ruinous nature of sin, and the sinfulness of the human heart, are here clearly shown. (Ro 7:14-17)
Paul has always been accountable, so quit using Romans 7 to try and prove that Paul was not accountable for his sins. He always was, that is Scripture. Sola Scriptura. Study, Study, pray for understanding
He is ignorant of human nature and the perverseness of his own heart, who does not perceive in himself a readiness to fancy there is something desirable in what is out of reach. We may perceive this in our children, though self-love makes us blind to it in ourselves. The more humble and spiritual any Christian is, the more clearly will he perceive that the apostle describes the true believer, from his first convictions of sin to his greatest progress in grace, during this present imperfect
state. St. Paul was once a Pharisee, ignorant of the spirituality of the law, having some correctness of character, without knowing his inward depravity. When the commandment came to his conscience by the convictions of the Holy Spirit, and he saw what it demanded, he found his sinful mind rise against it. He felt at the same time the evil of sin, his own sinful state, that he was unable to fulfil the law, and was like a criminal when condemned. But though the evil principle in the human heart
produces sinful motions, and the more by taking occasion of the commandment; yet the law is holy, and the commandment holy, just, and good. It is not favourable to sin, which it pursues into the heart, and discovers and reproves in the inward motions thereof. Nothing is so good but a corrupt and vicious nature will pervert it. The same heat that softens wax, hardens clay. Food or medicine when taken wrong, may cause death, though its nature is to nourish or to heal. The law may cause death
through man's depravity, but sin is the poison that brings death. Not the law, but sin discovered by the law, was made death to the apostle. The ruinous nature of sin, and the sinfulness of the human heart, are here clearly shown. (Ro 7:14-17)
Paul has always been accountable, so quit using Romans 7 to try and prove that Paul was not accountable for his sins. He always was, that is Scripture. Sola Scriptura. Study, Study, pray for understanding
Brother Bob
New Member
Everything you said was true or close and then you last statement you take it all away. You talk both ways DB; You say the Law brought death then you say he didn't die. You explanation is lacking for you just can't have it both ways. Sorry, but you are confused about the matter.
Brother Bob said:
Is paul alive now? If Adam had not eaten of the fruit then we would not have physical death now would we. Paul died that is a result of the fall he was born spiritually dead and will die a physical death which he did because of the fall. there is no both ways i never said paul did not die. If he did not we would not be discussing what he meant we could just ask him.
Brother Bob
New Member
Paul was born with the natural death appointed unto him because of Adam's sin (by one man came death, evenso by one man came the resurrection of the dead) it is the body that shall be resurrected from the grave. (if the same Spirit be in you that raised Christ from the dead it shall also quicken your mortal bodies). When we sin then the second death is pronounced upon us and we die in sin (Spiritually), and if we don't repent we will be in the second death. John came preaching (who hath warned you to flee the wrath of God which is to come).
No, Paul's body is dead because of Adam's sin.
No, Paul's body is dead because of Adam's sin.
FollowMeHome
New Member
I was baptized in the Catholic church.PastorSBC1303 said:Let's be careful holding your experience of being 4 as the standard for everyone. I have known a lot of folks saved at an early age that are fine godly people. God saves different people at different ages.
And you are a member of a baptist church?
It seems you people are on a witch hunt for Catholics on this website. You're the third person to question my church membership so far in this thread. I have only recently joined a Baptist church and having a great deal of difficulty on getting a handle on the beliefs of this religion.
I'm finding very little consistency.