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Baptism in a shower?
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Tom Butler
New Member
Amy.G said:
What is legalistic about seeking to follow scripture?
This is not an issue of the heart (which is desperately wicked, by the way, and deceptive) and not about a rule. It is about what is scriptural and what is not.
It's also not about salvation by baptism. If it were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Brother Bob
New Member
I never said following scripture is legalistic.Tom Butler said:
I said it could be legalistic to immerse someone who is not in any shape to be put under water, much less carried to the water. That was my point.
Baptism is (in my mind) a definite issue of the heart as it is an act of obedience to Christ, which originates in the heart.
The heart is desparately wicked before salvation, but after, we are given a new heart which is not wicked and is able to please God.
If someone is too ill to be immersed, then God is merciful (I believe) and will accept as obedience to baptism another method other than full immersion.
If it's not about obedience (heart issue) to Scripture...what is it?
In addition, I don't see submersion as a 100% lock in Scripture, either. I believe it is...but "coming up out of the water" can also mean going into the water and having water poured over you. It's symbolic of Christ's blood covering your sin.
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Brother Bob
New Member
I suppose we really can completely answer for ourselves only and when they said, when you want to be baptized, I answered, "right now".
I do not believe in "dry land Baptist". I believe there are cases where some never get physically well enough to be baptized and I feel they were saved, but if someone is physically able and refuses baptism, I have my doubts about him or her.
BBob,
Amy.G said:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
Brother Bob
New Member
Amy;
I have never and never will tell someone who is dying they have to be baptized. It is the other way around. They so desperately want baptism before they die and I try to make a way for them to receive it. I feel the same way. I suspect that the theif on the cross had of been able to come down, the first thing he would of done, would be baptized. IMO
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charles_creech78
New Member
I have seen someone be baptised in a lake and they had to brake the ice on top. Cold, cold, cold.
Let me ask, what do you all think of these verses?
Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
I keep hearing Baptism is just an act of obediance, is that all it is?
Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
I keep hearing Baptism is just an act of obediance, is that all it is?
Tom Butler
New Member
Amy.G said:
Sorry, Amy, I misread you.
I agree that baptism is a heart issue to the extent that it becomes desire of the heart to be obedient with regard to baptism.
But I still maintain that we do not have the authority to switch modes of baptism. Any mode other than full immersion is not baptism, and it is deception to tell the candidate that it is.
Your desire to help out the ill candidate is borne out of a tender heart,I can tell. But that tender heart is leading you to propose something that is unscriptural. That's what I mean about the heart being deceptive.
Brother Bob
New Member
Oh, I can't think of scripture to support it, but think the water baptism is a testimony to the world that you have Christ and the Holy Ghost Baptism, so its more than obedience, though that too but I think its a type of confession before the world also. You know the scripture, If you are ashame to confess me before the world. I think this is part of it.
BBob,
BBob,
Brother Bob said:
That was sort of my point from Romans, how can one claim to be part of the body of Christ and not want to die to the old self and be born into the newness of life? Even if one takes the simple view that it is just an outward symbol to man, wouldn’t you want to be counted?
Obedience? Like prayer, I would think there would be an undeniable drawing that no one short of death could deter. That even if I was so ill I physically died in the water, I still have the hope of being present with the Lord and raised in the last days into eternal life.
Brother Bob
New Member
Good one LeBuick;
charles_creech78
New Member
Act 8:29 Then the Spirit saide vnto Philip, Goe neere, and ioyne thy selfe to this charet.
Act 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him reade the Prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Act 8:31 And hee said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip, that hee would come vp, and sit with him.
Act 8:32 The place of the Scripture, which hee read, was this, Hee was led as a sheepe to the slaughter, & like a Lambe dumbe before the shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
Act 8:33 In his humiliation, his Iudgement was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? For his life is taken from the earth.
Act 8:34 And the Eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the Prophet this? of himselfe, or of some other man?
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same Scripture, and preached vnto him Iesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came vnto a certaine water: and the Eunuch said, See, here is water, what doeth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou beleeuest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered, and said, I beleeue that Iesus Christ is the Sonne of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the charet to stand still: and they went downe both into the water, both Philip, and the Eunuch, and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they were come vp out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the Eunuch saw him no more: and hee went on his way reioycing. God bless the name of the Lord the only thing that will hinder a person from being baptisted is by not believe Jesus Christ is the SON OF GOD. You can go down a drie sinner and come up a wet one. You can go down dead with Christ and come up to live with him forever. Believe with all they heart and ye shall live forever.
Act 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him reade the Prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Act 8:31 And hee said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip, that hee would come vp, and sit with him.
Act 8:32 The place of the Scripture, which hee read, was this, Hee was led as a sheepe to the slaughter, & like a Lambe dumbe before the shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
Act 8:33 In his humiliation, his Iudgement was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? For his life is taken from the earth.
Act 8:34 And the Eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the Prophet this? of himselfe, or of some other man?
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same Scripture, and preached vnto him Iesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came vnto a certaine water: and the Eunuch said, See, here is water, what doeth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou beleeuest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered, and said, I beleeue that Iesus Christ is the Sonne of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the charet to stand still: and they went downe both into the water, both Philip, and the Eunuch, and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they were come vp out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the Eunuch saw him no more: and hee went on his way reioycing. God bless the name of the Lord the only thing that will hinder a person from being baptisted is by not believe Jesus Christ is the SON OF GOD. You can go down a drie sinner and come up a wet one. You can go down dead with Christ and come up to live with him forever. Believe with all they heart and ye shall live forever.
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