Baptism of the Great Commission

[Darron Steele]

Written to another board member:

First and foremost nobody has said that the only way to be saved is to be baptized, that's just how you perceive it. Nobody has said we are saved by baptism alone.

It is interesting that you are called a baptist, yet struggle so hard with seeing plain scripture.
...
I guess your right all this prancing around about baptism must seem silly when you have passages like this.

JSM17: there was no good reason for this. Has frustration overcome you?

Are you becoming angry that no one is agreeing with your inferences of Scripture? Well, I am sorry if you feel that way, but please do not take it out on board members.

The fact is, Scripture directly states things that contradict your inferences. Human inferences never `trump' direct statements of Scripture. That is simply the way it is.

One of your best qualities is that until recently, you have been polite and civil to board members. You have not acknowledged that any one of us is right, but at least you have been civil in disagreement -- a premium in the Churches of Christ.

I spoke up for you when one board member was getting a little rude. I think a lot of people here are taking it easy on you, and paying more attention to you, because of how polite you have been. However, if you start getting snarky, you might find that your experience here changes.

 

[InChrist]

I have a few questions regarding the great commission as it is called and baptism:

The command that Jesus Christ gave to His disciples was to preach the gospel, starting first in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth. Are we to take this literally and was this "great commission" given to the Church? If so, are we not doing things wrong if we have not first started in Jerusalem just as the Lord commanded? Also, if this command was given to the Church, the why also do we not have great signs following us as we preach to confirm the word as promised in Mark 16?

It was given to Paul to reveal the mystery of the Church, and it is through Paul that we have the foundational church doctrines. Nowhere in the Pauline epistles can I find any Scriptures which states that we must be baptized by water. In fact, Paul says in one passage that he thanks God he did not come to baptize, but rather to preach the gospel, because that is the power unto salvation. If baptism was of such great importance to a person's salvation you would think that Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, would have ensured that he preached that.

There is also the passage of Scripture which states that there is only one Lord, one faith, one baptism. We know that in this Church age, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is VITAL to our salvation, as this is how we are brought into the Body of Christ. So which "one baptism" is it that applies to the Church? The baptism of the Holy Spirit which places us into the Body of Christ? Or is it the water baptism?

In the gospels, John declares that he baptizes with water for the remission of sins. Yet, in the Pauline epistles, Paul says that it is the blood of Christ that gives us remission for sins. So which is it in this church age? The blood of Christ? Or water baptism?

John said in the gospels that he indeed baptized with water... but that Jesus Christ would (future tense) baptize with the Holy Spirit. I wonder which baptism was of more importance? Did the baptism of the Spirit supersede water baptism?

 

[OldRegular]

I have a few questions regarding the great commission as it is called and baptism:

The command that Jesus Christ gave to His disciples was to preach the gospel, starting first in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth. Are we to take this literally and was this "great commission" given to the Church? If so, are we not doing things wrong if we have not first started in Jerusalem just as the Lord commanded? Also, if this command was given to the Church, the why also do we not have great signs following us as we preach to confirm the word as promised in Mark 16?

The Church did start in Jerusalem.

It was given to Paul to reveal the mystery of the Church, and it is through Paul that we have the foundational church doctrines.

I disagree with your statement: It was given to Paul to reveal the mystery of the Church. Also all the epistles including the Book of Acts present "foundational church doctrines".

Nowhere in the Pauline epistles can I find any Scriptures which states that we must be baptized by water. In fact, Paul says in one passage that he thanks God he did not come to baptize, but rather to preach the gospel, because that is the power unto salvation. If baptism was of such great importance to a person's salvation you would think that Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, would have ensured that he preached that.

There is also the passage of Scripture which states that there is only one Lord, one faith, one baptism. We know that in this Church age, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is VITAL to our salvation, as this is how we are brought into the Body of Christ. So which "one baptism" is it that applies to the Church? The baptism of the Holy Spirit which places us into the Body of Christ? Or is it the water baptism?

In the gospels, John declares that he baptizes with water for the remission of sins. Yet, in the Pauline epistles, Paul says that it is the blood of Christ that gives us remission for sins. So which is it in this church age? The blood of Christ? Or water baptism?

John said in the gospels that he indeed baptized with water... but that Jesus Christ would (future tense) baptize with the Holy Spirit. I wonder which baptism was of more importance? Did the baptism of the Spirit supersede water baptism?

You make an excellent point regarding Paul and water baptism, one I don't believe I have seen on this Forum before. That should put to rest the concept of baptismal regeneration or the necessity of baptism for salvation, whichever its adherents prefer, but it will not. Again thanks for very perceptive comment on Paul and water baptism.

 

[Martin Luther]

Matt 28:18-20
"All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
NKJV

Christ commanded baptism, is this baptism in water, Spirit?
Do we administer this baptism?

Mark 16:15-16
"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
NKJV

This is a synoptic account of the great commission, what ever baprism Jesus spoke of in Matthew, then He spoke of the same in this passage. To which Jesus says it saves. Remember that one who does not believe does not receive baptism so he is condemned without baptism and without faith. But he who does believe and is baptized will be saved. So what ever baptism Mark speaks of is the same as the baptism Matthew spoke of.

Luke 24:47

47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
NKJV

This is also an account of the Great Commission, which commanded that repentance and remission of sins be preached to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.

So on the day of Pentecost you have all three accounts of the Great Commission being obeyed.

Acts 2:38-39
"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
NKJV


You have belief, repentance,baptism, and remission of sins.

The baptism that God commanded men to administer is water baptism (Acts 8:36) and when we are baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:27) we become sons through the faith ( the gospel, Gal. 3:26) and as sons and only when we becomes sons we receive the Spirit (Gal. 4:6). Christ baptizes us with the Holy Spirit Matt. 3:11
Therefore Just as Jesus said to Nicodemus one must be born of water and spirit.

1 Peter 3:21

21 There is also an antitype which now saves us -- baptism(not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
NKJV

The great commission was fulfilled by the apostles 2000 years ago; Christ was speaking to THEM, not everyone reading His words. There has been no commission given to the church besides what is expected of all believers, to live holy separated lives, to teach those that ask of the hope that is in them.


James 1:27

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

[John Toppass]

The great commission was fulfilled by the apostles 2000 years ago; Christ was speaking to THEM, not everyone reading His words. There has been no commission given to the church besides what is expected of all believers, to live holy separated lives, to teach those that ask of the hope that is in them..

So you are saying that when Christ spoke to the apostles that His words were for them only? Was the sermon on the mount only intended for the multitude that was there that day? How about when Christ spoke to Nicodemus or the woman at the well or the many other times He spoke to the apostles, were these words only for those who actually heard them?? I THINK NOT!!! Christ spoke these words to these different audiences with the intent that all believers hear and follow his commands and instruction. Christ our Lord spoke these words for His Father our God so that we could believe and become heirs with Him in His Fathers Kingdom. Hallelujah!!!

James 1:27

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I believe if you will read the whole first chapter of James, you will find that James was reminding believers that pure religion STARTS with the care and ministry to those who truly have nothing at all. In fact, the second chapter, James uses the illustration of how it is easy to make way and cater to the ones who do not need to be catered to. While putting those who are in need on the back-burner or sending them so that they are "out of sight and out of mind".
By no means was James stating that this was ALL there was to religion.

 

[JSM17]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSM17
First and foremost nobody has said that the only way to be saved is to be baptized, that's just how you perceive it. Nobody has said we are saved by baptism alone.

It is interesting that you are called a baptist, yet struggle so hard with seeing plain scripture.
...
I guess your right all this prancing around about baptism must seem silly when you have passages like this.

JSM17: there was no good reason for this. Has frustration overcome you?

Are you becoming angry that no one is agreeing with your inferences of Scripture? Well, I am sorry if you feel that way, but please do not take it out on board members.

The fact is, Scripture directly states things that contradict your inferences. Human inferences never `trump' direct statements of Scripture. That is simply the way it is.

One of your best qualities is that until recently, you have been polite and civil to board members. You have not acknowledged that any one of us is right, but at least you have been civil in disagreement -- a premium in the Churches of Christ.

I spoke up for you when one board member was getting a little rude. I think a lot of people here are taking it easy on you, and paying more attention to you, because of how polite you have been. However, if you start getting snarky, you might find that your experience here changes.

I apologize, I did not think before I typed. I will strive to be kind in my reponses, I meant no ill will towards anyone. There are a few that rub me wrong with the way they respond in sarcasm. I guess I was just reponding to that, but it won't happen again, thank you for pointing that out to me, sometimes I do not see it in me.

 

[Martin Luther]

So you are saying that when Christ spoke to the apostles that His words were for them only? Was the sermon on the mount only intended for the multitude that was there that day? How about when Christ spoke to Nicodemus or the woman at the well or the many other times He spoke to the apostles, were these words only for those who actually heard them?? I THINK NOT!!! Christ spoke these words to these different audiences with the intent that all believers hear and follow his commands and instruction. Christ our Lord spoke these words for His Father our God so that we could believe and become heirs with Him in His Fathers Kingdom. Hallelujah!!!

This is really very simple, do you believe the great commission is a command directed to all Christians?

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Martin Luther,

YES! ABSOLUTELY! We are all required to obey the great commission as what Christ commanded.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Martin Luther]

Martin Luther,

YES! ABSOLUTELY! We are all required to obey the great commission as what Christ commanded.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

If we are all COMMANDED to go then who is left to send them? Your opinion implies that those doing the sending are not being obedient. All of Christs commands can be fulfilled. Christ gave the commandment to his apostles and THEY fulfilled it.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Martin Luther,

If suppose, you saying that Apostles did fulfilled it, the commandment was given to the apostles only, it doesn't apply to us. Then therefore, the gospel is not apply to the whole world? How can people hear the gospel without a preacher? - Romans 10:14. You mean that the commandments are not apply to us? Correct?

Then, if suppose, the commandments are not apply to us. Then, the whole world would have already gone to hell for 1,900 years without hear the gospel according to Romans 10:14.

Whole world need salvation. God does not want all people go perish, that why God commands every of us to spread the gosepl to the world to be saved. Yes. Great Commission apply to us all, not just for apostles only.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[JSM17]

If we are all COMMANDED to go then who is left to send them? Your opinion implies that those doing the sending are not being obedient. All of Christs commands can be fulfilled. Christ gave the commandment to his apostles and THEY fulfilled it.

The Apostles were not the only ones that went out, we learn through the N.T. that others went out as well and worked, why did the others go out unless the Great Commission was to the others as well?

 

[OldRegular]

The COC belief in the necessity of baptism for salvation [which eventually led to the heresy of baptismal regeneration] would be more defensible if they would explain why when a person, according to COC doctrine, loses his salvation for whatever reason, baptism is not required for their regained salvation. As far as I am concerned unless they can explain this anomaly in their doctrine their argument that baptism is required for salvation not only is not Biblical, it is foolish.

Rather than argue with JSM17 about the necessity of baptism for initial salvation require him to explain why baptism is not required for those who presumably lose their salvation and then are saved a second, or third, or fourth, or on and on ad infinitum.

I have challenged JSM17 to do so and he has ignored that challenge. Why allow him to monopolize discussion on this forum leaving the above question unanswered?

 

[JSM17]

The COC belief in the necessity of baptism for salvation [which eventually led to the heresy of baptismal regeneration] would be more defensible if they would explain why when a person, according to COC doctrine, loses his salvation for whatever reason, baptism is not required for their regained salvation. As far as I am concerned unless they can explain this anomaly in their doctrine their argument that baptism is required for salvation not only is not Biblical, it is foolish.

Rather than argue with JSM17 about the necessity of baptism for initial salvation require him to explain why baptism is not required for those who presumably lose their salvation and then are saved a second, or third, or fourth, or on and on ad infinitum.

I have challenged JSM17 to do so and he has ignored that challenge. Why allow him to monopolize discussion on this forum leaving the above question unanswered?

I have already explained my view on this question, I have answered twice in past posts, if you find them read them then even post them back here so others can see that I responded a while ago, maybe not as quickly as you wanted but I did respond.

I do not believe I have shown ill will or bad motives in any of my posts, I will be more than happy to talk about other issues. I have made no one follow what I wish to talk about, everyone has responded by their own will. If someone is done and sick of talking about this then do not respond. I have discussed the "Nature of man"; "Passages the deal with salvation"; "New birth"; and even some historical views.

I am not sure if it is me who gets bitter when people do not agree with me or it is some of you who get bitter because I don't agree with you.

Every simply stated passage quoted by an inspired writers is never simple, when something is said plain in simple it is made into something else.