Baptism of the Holy Spirit

[ChristB4Us]

This is a word salad. I don't even know what you are saying here. If you think I identified with some kind of apostasy, what did I say? Quote me and prove it.

My post at the link.

What Identifies A Christian As A Baptist?

Quote from my post.

"I know that some believers misapply Ephesians 5:18 as if exhorting believes to avoid getting drunk but instead seek a filling of the Holy Spirit but that is actually an apostate calling that ignores the warning in 2 Corinthians 11:2-4 when Ephesians 5:18 is just exhorting believers to say sober, as be filled with the Holy Ghost or remained filled with the Holy Spirit rather than getting drunk with wine.

Counterfeit Spirits Invading 'Churches': Kundalini vs the "Spirit of God" (youtube.com)

We are not a leaky vessel that needs a continual filling of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. KJV

That is why after coming to & believing in Jesus Christ, no saved believer need to hunger nor thirst to be filled again.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

The only reason God permits those strong delusion to occur is because wayward believers believed the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirt again and by an outward sign too as feeling the spirit coming into them as the world does with spirits.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

We are complete in Christ after having received Jesus Christ and so being rooted in His words in trusting Him for all things including His enabling us to follow Him in thought, word, and deed, is how we grow in our relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ rather than follow after the appearance of evil for how the world receives spirits continuously by signs & wonders..

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: ~~ end of quote

I was speaking on that issue regarding how some believers will misapply Ephesians 5:18.

To wit.... your reply is to that quoted part above as "You just called me an apostate." found at this link to your post.

What Identifies A Christian As A Baptist?

If you note to that link to YouTube video, it will show "being filled with the Spirit" as that methodology for those phenomenon to occur and although I know you speak against such phenomenon, I am pointing out the falsehood of seeking to continually be filling yourself up with the Holy Spirit for how those phenomenon can occur and has.

So you posted that comment as if I was calling you an apostate but I was speaking on that issue of how some believers will misapply Ephesians 5:18 to mean and that is why I said you put that shoe on yourself as if you were opposing what I had shared to be an apostasy which is a departure from the faith in Jesus Christ.

Anyway, if you had made an error in reading that quoted section from my post, then clarify or amend but there it is.

 

[ChristB4Us]

@ChristB4Us, I've not time or patience to deal with your condition. Let others do it. On ignore you go.

Don't even know why he did that, but....

For other believers, you can get patience from Jesus Christ when serving Him in the ministry.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:...... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[ChristB4Us]

"Sign" and "evidence" are two entirely different things. You've been saying that I believe there are signs of the baptism and/or filling of the Spirit. Stop saying that. It's not true.

You kind of set the format for that mental application when you had first replied to the OP in this thread for speaking against tongues as if the OP was using tongues as evidence of baptism with the Holy Ghost.

If someone claims to be filled with the Spirit but never witnesses for Christ or gives out a tract or goes on soul-winning visitation for their church, they are definitely not filled with the Spirit and not walking with God.

Scriptures disagree with that. They are filled with the Holy Spirit but they have set their minds on the cares of this life that they are not bearing fruit as His disciples and those cares can serve as a snare for why many will not be ready to leave with the Bridegroom for when He comes as they will be tempted to love his life more & be unwilling to leave their loved ones behind.

Luke 14:25-35 & Luke 21:33-36

Years ago a dear lady named Dotty had spinal bifida, and could not leave her home very much. Nevertheless, she wrote a tract with the title "Handicapped and Happy," and gave it to everyone who came to her door. She also gave just $10 a month, a true "widow's mite," for us to reach Japanese for Christ. That woman was filled with the Spirit and walked with God. Now she is in Heaven, cured from her illness.

1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Not every believer knows about that part of His ministry for why illnesses can be used by Him for those that may minister to those that are sinners suffering with the same thing.

How often do we hear fellow believers complain about God for this or lose sight of Him and just worry about dying? They can be church going believers, thinking the witness of going to church is showing their faith, without actually growing in His words daily to grow in their faith for when bad times comes.

How do we correct them or exhort them without condemning them as unbelievers? Especially when we are not sick as they are?

One can pray for them that they may receive His words since what better time to finally get into His words when bed ridden, but it is on God to cause the increase... to lead Him to read His words with His help in getting the exhortation and His peace to go through the sufferings that they are going through.

 

[John of Japan]

Don't even know why he did that, but....

Tell you what, I'm just going to join kyredneck and put you on ignore. He probably did it for some of the same reasons I am going to: you are not a Baptist (and thus shouldn't be posting here, but you decided to disobey the rules), you make false accusations, you write very long posts that are often just a word salad, you attribute things falsely to people, etc., etc.

I started out welcoming you nicely to the BB, but you quickly turned nasty and accused me of apostasy, a very serious accusation.

So, go elsewhere and have a nice life.

 

[JD731]

@John of Japan Tagging you as I contend with this Baptist member laying the groundwork that Pentecostals & Charismatics can work off of by his words.



You are setting the groundwork for that phenomenon to occur and thereby engaging in that apostasy of seeking to receive the continual filling of the Holy Spirit which is after the rudiment in the world for how they receive spirts by seeing it happen.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

<snip>.

You know fellow, I am already thinking of you as a know nothing jerk, if you do not mind me being so bold. You have falsely accused a man who is probably your senior and one who has engaged his life in the preaching of the gospel of Christ and getting the gospel and the word to the Asians. You may not agree with him on every point but that is no reason to accuse him of denying the faith and I am offended by it. There is no evidence so far that you have much understanding of the baptism of the Spirit so because of the standard you are working under it would not be unreasonable for me to think you are an apostate coming here to stir up trouble seeing John of Japan has given you his statement of faith in Christ and it seems sound to me. If you disagree with his salvation based on his testimony then you need to give us yours and we can judge who is closer to being the apostate. But no one is an apostate because of what they believe about the baptism of the Spirit. Apostates deny the faih and your not believing a man who is trusting the gospel, the power of God for salvation is putting out a red flag.

I have laid out in my last comments exactly what I believe the scriptures teach about the baptism of the Holy Spirit as it applies to the covenant people, Israel, first of all, and have provided scriptural, in context, authority for my points. The proper way to debate is to deal with my points and since you are taking issue with what I said about being filled with the Spirit and claiming it is the same as being baptized with the Holy Spirit, why don't you prove it. I do know what God means by his terminology "baptism of the Spirit" and I know what he means to be "filled with the Spirit" and I know it is not the same thing and it has nothing to do with the Spirit leaking out as you so ignorantly suggested that I teach.

Stay tuned and I will deliver a post describing when and for what purpose the baptism of the Holy Ghost was administered as an act of God on the gentiles. If you disagree with what I say and want to argue about it, fine, just try to make sense when you do. So far you have not made much sense, in my opinion.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Tell you what, I'm just going to join kyredneck and put you on ignore. He probably did it for some of the same reasons I am going to: you are not a Baptist (and thus shouldn't be posting here, but you decided to disobey the rules), you make false accusations, you write very long posts that are often just a word salad, you attribute things falsely to people, etc., etc.

I had addressed what you had declared as false accusations which was proven to be true in post #61 as any member of the forum and guests can read.

I started out welcoming you nicely to the BB,

You did but because I did not agree with what qualifies one as a Baptist that he has to believe water baptism is by immersion only, and you thereby concluded that I was not a Baptist. Funny how other members of the forum still identifies as a Baptist as they seem to agree with me and even notified me that not all Baptists believe that water baptism has to be done by immersion or else they are not a Baptist.

Can't see how you did not know that.

but you quickly turned nasty and accused me of apostasy, a very serious accusation.

You applied that to yourself from which I had I explained in post #61 and so apparently you oppose what I was sharing as apostasy and so declared that I had just called you an apostate. So be it..

So, go elsewhere and have a nice life.

Still admonishing you as my brother even though you supposedly have placed me on ignore.

 

[ChristB4Us]

You know fellow, I am already thinking of you as a know nothing jerk, if you do not mind me being so bold.

At least you are about to explain why rather than claim word salad to avoid addressing the scriptures that reproves him..

You have falsely accused a man who is probably your senior and one who has engaged his life in the preaching of the gospel of Christ and getting the gospel and the word to the Asians.

That does not mean anything if he is teaching falsehood, as the groundwork for apostasy to come about.

The late Billy Graham is a false preacher as he would preach the gospel but given an apostate altar call that is the opposite of the gospel.

He would preach "it is not going to church every Sunday that is going to save you. It is not keeping the ten commandments that is going to save you, It is all those who call upon the name of the Lord." That is the gospel he preached.

Now this altar call is the opposite from which saved believers in their zeal towards the gospel are responding to religiously, "If you are not sure you are saved, make a commitment to follow Christ." Does that ever make you wonder whatever happens to all those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved? And so there it is. What does it involved in keeping that commitment to follow Christ so that believer can gain the assurance of salvation? Going to church every Sunday is going to save you. Keeping the ten commandments and more because His commandments are higher than the works of the law is going to save you in order for you to gain the assurance of salvation in keeping that commitment to follow Christ.

This is why Billy Graham said in his interview with tony snow that he doubted Jesus would receive him because he was not always a good Christian and so that proves he was seeking his justification a sin his salvation by how well he kept that commitment to follow Christ.

Tony Snow Interviews Billy Graham

Quote from link "SNOW: When you get to Heaven, who's going to speak first, you or God?

GRAHAM: When I get there, I'm sure that Jesus is going to say that he
will welcome me. But I think that he's going to say: Well done, our good
and faithful servant. Or he may say: You're in the wrong place.

SNOW: You really worry that you may be told you're in the wrong place?

GRAHAM: Yes, because I have not -- I'm not a righteous man. People put
me up on a pedestal that I don't belong in my personal life. And they
think that I'm better than I am. I'm not the good man that people think
I am. Newspapers and magazines and television have made me out to be a
saint. I'm not. I'm not a Mother Teresa. And I feel that very much. ~~ end of quote from link

A believer that made this mistake can go to Jesus Christ for forgiveness and for Jesus to set him free to rest in His New Covenant to him that as His Good Shepherd & Friend, He will help him to follow Him by abiding in Him & His words daily in resisting sin and thereby walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son in thought, word, and deed as His disciple.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

You may not agree with him on every point but that is no reason to accuse him of denying the faith and I am offended by it. There is no evidence so far that you have much understanding of the baptism of the Spirit so because of the standard you are working under it would not be unreasonable for me to think you are an apostate coming here to stir up trouble seeing John of Japan has given you his statement of faith in Christ and it seems sound to me. If you disagree with his salvation based on his testimony then you need to give us yours and we can judge who is closer to being the apostate. But no one is an apostate because of what they believe about the baptism of the Spirit. Apostates deny the faith and your not believing a man who is trusting the gospel, the power of God for salvation is putting out a red flag.

In post # 61 I have re-addressed the issue of believers thinking there is a continual filling of the Holy Spirit in the life of a saved believer as an apostate calling from which he then applied that issue to himself as if I was calling him an apostate. If he teaches that, then, yes, he is correct in calling himself an apostate.

I have laid out in my last comments exactly what I believe the scriptures teach about the baptism of the Holy Spirit as it applies to the covenant people, Israel, first of all, and have provided scriptural, in context, authority for my points. The proper way to debate is to deal with my points and since you are taking issue with what I said about being filled with the Spirit and claiming it is the same as being baptized with the Holy Spirit, why don't you prove it. I do know what God means by his terminology "baptism of the Spirit" and I know what he means to be "filled with the Spirit" and I know it is not the same thing and it has nothing to do with the Spirit leaking out as you so ignorantly suggested that I teach.

Stay tuned and I will deliver a post describing when and for what purpose the baptism of the Holy Ghost was administered as an act of God on the gentiles. If you disagree with what I say and want to argue about it, fine, just try to make sense when you do. So far you have not made much sense, in my opinion.

The issue of which he claimed I was falsely accusing him of is what he identified himself with by as an apostate which is believing the lie that there is a continual filling of the Holy Spirit after salvation just as you did as I did reproved that notion with scriptures in my post #60 in reply to your post.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit

So it is not about the baptism of the Holy Ghost but a side-lined topic which you also had started that believers need a continual filling of the Holy Spirit and so I suggest that you read post #60 at that link with His help because you need to repent to avoid being left behind because the foolish virgins were out to the market getting extra oil for why they were left behind for not being ready and yet although left behind, they were still art of that kingdom of Heaven but just missed out on the Marriage Supper.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25:1-13 - King James Version

That means saved believers that get left behind for engaging in that work of iniquity of seeking to be filled are still saved being in that kingdom of Heaven to begin with but missed out on the rapture.

 

[JD731]

<snip>

Baptism of the Holy Spirit

So it is not about the baptism of the Holy Ghost but a side-lined topic which you also had started that believers need a continual filling of the Holy Spirit and so I suggest that you read post #60 at that link with His help because you need to repent to avoid being left behind because the foolish virgins were out to the market getting extra oil for why they were left behind for not being ready and yet although left behind, they were still art of that kingdom of Heaven but just missed out on the Marriage Supper.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25:1-13 - King James Version

That means saved believers that get left behind for engaging in that work of iniquity of seeking to be filled are still saved being in that kingdom of Heaven to begin with but missed out on the rapture.

So, tell us what is your definition of salvation and how do you get it and can you keep it once you get it? Is it to be baptized by the Holy Ghost? Define your Christianity and tell us why we should be like you.

 

[JD731]

So, what happened in Acts 2 on the fiftieth day after the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ? It was the feast of Weeks, Pentecost, the fourth of seven feasts and the second of three festivals. And like all the feast and festivals of Israel, prophetic of the out working of God's purpose on the earth. But, I will forego that aspect and focus on these 120 in the upper room that day.

One should consider these two following verses from the Bible that I believe. (your Bible may say something different)

Ac 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

What? Of all the things Jesus could speak to his chosen apostles, he chose to speak for 40 days of things pertaining to the kingdom.

Now listen to the question of Peter, who spoke the heart of all those Jews. Of all the things Jesus had said about the kingdom, there was one thing he did not tell them and they all wanted to know the answer. Here it is.

Ac 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Logic and reasoning here. If Jesus had not been speaking to them of restoring the kingdom to Israel, why ask this dumb question knowing it is the last question they will ever get to ask him on this side of eternity and it would be completely out of any kind of context of the last 40 days?

Well, the Holy Ghost did not want that question answered, see verse 2 above, because Israel would answer that question over the next 7 years. All Bible believers know, or can know, the answer now.

But back to the 120. Take a look at this verse;

Ac 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. (in Jn 14, 15, & 16)
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Did you know that we are told the Jews in Acts 2 must be publicly baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ to receive the Holy Ghost?

Here is what John the Baptist said about this.

Mr 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Now there are those who say that being born again by receiving the Holy Ghost is the baptism that John spoke of even after reading this verse.

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The pronoun John the Baptist used in Mk 1:8 is "you" which is plural. All the nation and family were called on to repent and be baptized in water and like wise Peter called on every one of "you" to repent and be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ and those who did would receive the Holy Ghost. Where did the Holy Ghost come from? He had been poured out in such abundance upon Israel that they were immersed in him. The mystery is the theology of this age, the church in Christ and Christ in the church by being in it's members. Is not this the prayer request of Jesus in John 17 and is it not answered here?

But, did you know that the baptizers, the apostles, have no scriptural record that they were ever baptized in water to receive the Holy Ghost? Neither were any of the others in that upper room that day. Has anyone ever wondered why that is? It is because they already possessed the Holy Ghost and they were not baptized with the Holy Ghost in Acts 2, they were filled with the Holy Ghost, which simply means that it was the Holy Ghost in them that was the power to accomplish their ministry that day. Jesus Christ had baptized Israel in the Holy Ghost as John the Baptist said by pouring out his Spirit on all Israel.

But when did those in the upper room get the Spirit?

Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Is there a person here that actually believes what they read here? I just say WOW!

So, the question concerning the baptism of the Holy Ghost is answered. The nation and family was baptized by the Holy Ghost (outward) but individuals in that family received him (inward) by repenting of putting their king to death, being baptized in his name for the remission of sins.. Jesus means, Jehovah is salvation.

Now we know why Jesus did not through the Holy Ghost answer the question, will thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel. It was because it all depended on how the nation responded to the gospel of Jesus Christ and we know now that it was not good. Read Acts 7.

I felt like these words needed to be said before going on to the gentiles receiving the Holy Ghost.

 

[Van]

SNIP
"The baptism (baptisma) into Christ" refers to an act of God introducing a believing sinner into union with Jesus Christ. This union with Christ is identifying the sinner with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, changing his environment to a new environment into the Kingdom of God.

Two interesting words are used:
God "introducing" a believing sinner into union with Jesus Christ, and the union with Christ is "identifying" the sinner with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

Does "Introducing" into union mean transferring the sinner's human spirit into union of Christ's Spirit?
Does "Identifying" the sinner mean transforming the sinner's human spirit into a new creation, resulting in the sinner being "born anew?"

 

[Charlie24]

Two interesting words are used:
God "introducing" a believing sinner into union with Jesus Christ, and the union with Christ is "identifying" the sinner with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

Does "Introducing" into union mean transferring the sinner's human spirit into union of Christ's Spirit?
Does "Identifying" the sinner mean transforming the sinner's human spirit into a new creation, resulting in the sinner being "born anew?"

Well Van, if we breakout the microscope and pick every word to an exact science, we're leaving behind the entire purpose of what we want to achieve.

I want to use the most simple form of communication possible for all to get the idea.

 

[Van]

Well Van, if we breakout the microscope and pick every word to an exact science, we're leaving behind the entire purpose of what we want to achieve.

I want to use the most simple form of communication possible for all to get the idea.

Let's leave it there, Sir.

I believe Christ taught us to speak, boldly, clearly and plainly, and not leave it to our audience to draw their own conclusions

 

[Charlie24]

Let's leave it there, Sir.

I believe Christ taught us to speak, boldly, clearly and plainly, and not leave it to our audience to draw their own conclusions

The way I see it, the Gospel is a truth left for every individual to draw their own conclusions.

Why would we want to make it more complicated for those with less understanding?

 

[Van]

The way I see it, the Gospel is a truth left for every individual to draw their own conclusions.

Why would we want to make it more complicated for those with less understanding?

To follow Christ!

 

[Charlie24]

To follow Christ!

I agree, Brother! I was raised up in Church as far back as I can remember, the world is full of those who were not that fortunate.

With every post my heart is with them, I want to be clear and understandable to those folks. I don't want to overcomplicate their understanding.

 

[Van]

Over complication arises from ambiguity. To claim clarity is over complication seems wrong.

Whoever calls the name of the Lord will be saved. Who decides who calls? This is not complicated.

 

[Charlie24]

Over complication arises from ambiguity. To claim clarity is over complication seems wrong.

Whoever calls the name of the Lord will be saved. Who decides who calls? This is not complicated.

In it's simplest form, leaving out denominational differences, who is doing the calling in Rom. 10:13?

 

[Van]

In it's simplest form, leaving out denominational differences, who is doing the calling in Rom. 10:13?

Still no answer. Good grief!
Romans 10:14 says the one who calls must believe. But who decided who believes. John 6:64.

 

[Charlie24]

Still no answer. Good grief!
Romans 10:14 says the one who calls must believe. But who decided who believes. John 6:64.

You'll have to find someone else to take the bait. I'm concerned with the lost of this world, not another endless argument that turns the lost away.

 

[Van]

You'll have to find someone else to take the bait. I'm concerned with the lost of this world, not another endless argument that turns the lost away.

False doctrine, and gibberish lose the lost.