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Baptism: Regeneration or Symbol?

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Hrhema said:
I do not deny this but I find it a very poor argument to use the thief on the cross to say Baptism has nothing to do with salvation.
No its not because the picture is that man is unable to help himself and has no ability. He is nailed to a tree hands and feet. Baptism can't help him because he is a condemned criminal. He is going to die! Where is the preacher to preach the written gospel so he can believe? He's on the tree condemned... In Adam all die! The Law Of God nailed him there. The only Salvation for the one thief as the other one does not belong to him is the one crucified in the middle... The Lamb Of God. Baptismal regeneration is a brother of gospel regeneration... None has the power to save eternally... Brother Glen
 

charles

New Member
Salvation is an act of God and God alone.We can do some things on our own but salvation,never.

But salvaion is conditional,you receive this free gift under certain conditions.Obedience to the gospel is required,this is man's response.Who cares at what point God saves us,we are required to obey him and baptism is one of the requirements.No power in baptism but power in obedience.We humbly have enough faith to publicly show our obedience to God.

God did so much for us,why can't we do that for his name's sake.
 

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Charles said:Salvation is an act of God and God alone.We can do some things on our own but salvation,never.

But salvaion is conditional,you receive this free gift under certain conditions.Obedience to the gospel is required,this is man's response.

So what is it Grace or Works?... It can't be both!... Brother Glen :eek:
 

charles

New Member
Brother Glen,
I don't disagree with you.Salvation is through Jesus by the grace of God,period.That's where all the power is.Salvation=100 percent grace.

Salvation is there for the taking.Available to all men.But if Romans5:2 is worth it's salt,we have to access grace by faith.Baptism is an act of faith,it's a test to provide evidence that we believe and repent.Brother Glen,I appreciate the confidence that you put in the cross but you are an example of the Baptists putting too little emphasis on baptism.The CoC puts too much emphasis,where is the middle.

I believe both denominations are alright and saved but the center stage needs to be the cross,which I commend you for.

God bless,Charles
 

Sularis

Member
Ok charles you must be as tired as in pain as I feel, with those liquid filled "blisters" on your feet, your back screaming in pain clouding yer mind, when you made the slightly confuzzling statement

"Baptism is an act of faith"

See to me, and not many other people, Baptism is a response to God responding to our faith & repentance.

Baptism is a declaration of your beliefs - Designed for a public forum to declare that God has acted in your life - changing you - and has granted you the matchless grace of forgiveness - ie salvation.
 

charles

New Member
Sularis,

When you said baptism is a declaration of our beliefs,you said the same thing I said(an act of faith).

Since all power is given to the cross,there lies none for baptism.So if it has no power then why do it?

Because we believe that the bible tells us to do it.It is indeed a declaration of our faith(belief).

The woman with the issue of blood had to push her way through the crowd to touch Jesus.Jesus commended her faith which included an act of touching.No power in the touching but power in obedience because of who Jesus was.No difference in baptism.

Thanks for your reply,God bless
Charles
 

Mrs KJV

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Originally posted by Jarlaxle:
I was born and raised in a Church of Christ. Actually I still attend a Church of Christ. However, I no longer believe many of their legalistic views on theology. I would argue with Baptists about whether baptism was essential for salvation or not and I had convinced myself that I was correct. After all, many verses strongly imply that baptism is the point where sins are forgiven. It is my view now that Baptists do not put enough importance on Baptism, while the Church of Christ puts way too much importance on it.

I offer an analogy to try and demonstrate the importance of baptism without making it so important that one would get the idea that it was essential for the forgiveness of sins.

Baptism is to becoming a Christian what a ring is to becoming married in my culture (USA).

The ring is not essential for me to get married, yet I would not have dared to have gone through the ceremony without it when I got married. To put baptism off until a later “convenient” date is like going through a marriage ceremony and then purchasing the rings later. Certainly there are circumstances in real life where a couple will get married without them (i.e. can not afford them or something), but those are not the circumstances I am comparing baptism to. I am comparing baptism to the general or normal union of man and wife in my culture.

When I placed the ring on my wife’s finger, I made a pledge to her while doing so.

1 Peter 3:21 “and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,”

My Church of Christ brothers would of course say, “Now see? Its right there in black and white. Baptism saves you!” Well, ya, their correct, but what exactly is Peter saying baptism is? Peter says there are two parts of baptism. The physical water washing part, and the pledge part. Kinda like the ring and vow I made at my wedding. The physical ring symbolizing my “endless love” and the vow or “pledge of a good conscience toward her.” Is the ring essential? In her eyes it may have been, but technically speaking my vow is all that matters. If not, then I had better hope the ring never gets lost!

Likewise, Peter says that removal of dirt is not the part that saves. The part that saves is the pledge of a good conscience toward God. With this analogy in mind, lets look at a verse by Paul that is often referred to by “Church of Christers.”

Romans 6:3-4 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

This would be like saying, “Or don’t you know that all of you who have had wedding rings placed upon your fingers have been engaged in a relationship of endless love? You were therefore joined together by these rings in the holy matrimony.” Worded this way, it makes is sound as if the rings are essential for a couple to be bound together, when in fact it is not. So even though many verses in the Bible imply that baptism (removal of dirt from the body part) is essential, it is in fact not so because Peter says that part is NOT the part that saves.

In my opinion, this is a good analogy but I believe that the dunking part of baptism is even more critical or important to becoming a Christian that the rings are to becoming married. I don’t think it is essential in the sense that it actually cleanses you of sin, only the pledge of a good conscience can do that by the resurrection of Jesus. But, just as I would not dare delay in getting a ring for my bride, even more so I would not dare delay getting baptized to become “engaged” with my Savior. What else would explain why seemingly each case in the Bible where people were baptized they did not delay?

Hope this helps,
Jarlaxle
I'm a pastor's wife and we put a great emphasis on Baptism. It makes you a memeber of that local church and shows your obediance to Christ. I really don't believe people can be rewarded with their good works to they have trusted Christ with this very important ordiance. It should be done as soon as possible.
 
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