It should be common sense that if one defines baptismal regeneration as the regeneration that saves the soul, that an infant has no ability to understand the Gospel to be saved.
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Baptism - Sprinkled or Dunked?
- Thread starter rockytopva
- Start date
It should be common sense that if one defines baptismal regeneration as the regeneration that saves the soul, that an infant has no ability to understand the Gospel to be saved.
The power is not in the water, but in the shed blood of Yeshua
“ In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. “ 1 Peter 3
Baptism saves, twice Scripture tells you. Baptism is not a physical washing of dirt from the body, but the cleansing of the conscience which is of the soul before God.
This is spiritual power and cleansing happening.
“and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.” Genesis
There is a relationship between water and The Holy Spirit being demonstrated beautifully and constantly in Scripture, starting in Genesis at Creation.
And then also at Recreation.
“ Unless you are born again of Water and Spirit, you shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”
We recreated anew at Baptism, by water and Spirit.
See how beautiful Scripture is, properly understood.
It should be common sense that if one defines baptismal regeneration as the regeneration that saves the soul, that an infant has no ability to understand the Gospel to be saved.
Look at this carefully, hear it out and you will understand my point.
Who answered for the infants that were consecrated as Israelites at the Temple?
The Parents. The parents made the Covenant pledges for their children, that could not answer for themselves.
If you understand lines of Authority in scripture, the parents were not just the physical but spiritual guardians of their children who were subject to them.
Same thing in the new Covenant, the parents made the pledge of faith for the infants, because they have God given Authority, if those infants can not answer for themselves.
Later at Confirmation then the child is grown and can make a mature pledge of Faith, but the infant is not denied saving baptism.
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Look at this carefully, hear it out and you will understand my point.
Who answered for the infants that were consecrated as Israelites at the Temple?
The Parents. The parents made the Covenant pledges for their children, that could not answer for themselves.
If you understand lines of Authority in scripture, the parents were not just the physical but spiritual guardians of their children who were subject to them.
Same thing in the new Covenant, the parents made the pledge of faith for the infants, because they have God given Authority, if those infants can not answer for themselves.
Later at Confirmation then the child is grown and can make a mature pledge of Faith, but the infant is not denied saving baptism.
This goes back to the root of the problem with men creating their own doctrine.
Everything you have just explained is based on works.
The works of the parents to save them through a false, corrupt, and ungodly doctrine created by man.
This goes back to the root of the problem with men creating their own doctrine.
Everything you have just explained is based on works.
The works of the parents to save them through a false, corrupt, and ungodly doctrine created by man.
Even in Protestant and Baptist belief, making a personal profession of Faith in Christ is a “ work “.
So it seems extremely ridiculous your point here.
Even in Protestant and Baptist belief, making a personal profession of Faith in Christ is a “ work “.
So it seems extremely ridiculous your point here.
That's a false statement!
When the Gospel of Jesus Christ is heard, the faith comes from hearing, as the great Apostle said.
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"
Only the hearing of the Word of God will suffice.
Man then, on the spot, accepts or rejects that calling through the hearing of the Truth from the Holy Spirit.
Where is the work in saying yea or nay to the Spirit of God?
That's a false statement!
When the Gospel of Jesus Christ is heard, the faith comes from hearing, as the great Apostle said.
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"
Only the hearing of the Word of God will suffice.
Man then, on the spot, accepts or rejects that calling through the hearing of the Truth from the Holy Spirit.
Where is the work in saying yea or nay to the Spirit of God?
So you don’t have to read, study and meditate on the Scripture to understand it and then profess your faith in Christ as your Lord and Saviour.
So you don’t have to read, study and meditate on the Scripture to understand it and then profess your faith in Christ as your Lord and Saviour.
Of course not! That's the reality of believing. The Holy Spirit enters the property now belonging to God, through acceptance of the calling.
"I will send the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) and He will teach you all things that I haves said."
Now that Jesus Christ is in you through the Holy Spirit, the learning begins.
And what a journey it can be!
So you don’t even need to read the Gospel or know about Jesus or what he taught? Fantastic.
So Catholic infants are covered then at baptism.
You are intentionally misrepresenting me on my statements!
You're an intelligent person and you know exactly what I'm saying!
A person in a foreign land who has never clearly heard the Gospel of Christ, can be approached by anyone willing to share that Gospel, and right there on the spot the Holy Spirit convicts that person of sin, and righteousness, and of judgement.
He is faced with a decision to accept or reject that calling.
If he accepts he is gloriously saved by grace through faith in Christ, right there on the spot.
He knows nothing of the Bible, nothing of Christ, but he believes and is a born-again creation in Christ.
Now he is encouraged to associate with fellow believers, in Church or groups meeting to worship our God.
The learning process begins with the milk of the Word, but soon the believer will take hold of the meat of the Word.
You are intentionally misrepresenting me on my statements!
You're an intelligent person and you know exactly what I'm saying!
A person in a foreign land who has never clearly heard the Gospel of Christ, can be approached by anyone willing to share that Gospel, and right there on the spot the Holy Spirit convicts that person of sin, and righteousness, and of judgement.
He is faced with a decision to accept or reject that calling.
If he accepts he is gloriously saved by grace through faith in Christ, right there on the spot.
He knows nothing of the Bible, nothing of Christ, but he believes and is a born-again creation in Christ.
Now he is encouraged to associate with fellow believers, in Church or groups meeting to worship our God.
The learning process begins with the milk of the Word, but soon the believer will take hold of the meat of the Word.
So a guy who actually works by reading, studying and meditating on the gospel then believing isn’t saved, because he arrived there by works not Grace alone. I think I get ya.
So a guy who actually works by reading, studying and meditating on the gospel then believing isn’t saved, because he arrived there by works not Grace alone. I think I get ya.
LOL, no, you haven't got it!
The works come after the fact of salvation. We work because we are saved not to get saved.
I know you're thinking of James. "do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?"
But Paul says, "for by grace through faith we are justified, not by works."
They are not disagreeing!
Paul is referring to the unsaved man who adds works to faith for salvation, it can't be done.
James is referring to the man already saved, with his works proving his salvation.
The Catholics don't understand this, or should I say they don't want to understand this.
Catholicism is thrown into the dumpster if this is accepted!
To Catholics, the true salvation resides in Mother Church, as they see Rome as dispensing the means of sacramental grace in order to allow one to hopefully be able to cooperate and merit salvation in the endLOL, no, you haven't got it!
The works come after the fact of salvation. We work because we are saved not to get saved.
I know you're thinking of James. "do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?"
But Paul says, "for by grace through faith we are justified, not by works."
They are not disagreeing!
Paul is referring to the unsaved man who adds works to faith for salvation, it can't be done.
James is referring to the man already saved, with his works proving his salvation.
The Catholics don't understand this, or should I say they don't want to understand this.
Catholicism is thrown into the dumpster if this is accepted!
To Catholics, the true salvation resides in Mother Church, as they see Rome as dispensing the means of sacramental grace in order to allow one to hopefully be able to cooperate and merit salvation in the end
That's exactly right! and if they don't see the light it's not going to be a pleasant experience when they meet their Maker.
LOL, no, you haven't got it!
The works come after the fact of salvation. We work because we are saved not to get saved.
I know you're thinking of James. "do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?"
But Paul says, "for by grace through faith we are justified, not by works."
They are not disagreeing!
Paul is referring to the unsaved man who adds works to faith for salvation, it can't be done.
James is referring to the man already saved, with his works proving his salvation.
The Catholics don't understand this, or should I say they don't want to understand this.
Catholicism is thrown into the dumpster if this is accepted!
No, if you arrived at belief by reading, study and meditation, then believing, that’s then works based and invalid. Red card, off the field mate. Go on.
That's exactly right! and if they don't see the light it's not going to be a pleasant experience when they meet their Maker.
The problem is, you don’t understand about salvation. It’s not a one off event. It’s a process of becoming like Christ and remaining faithful until death.
Faith is faithfulness, not just intellectual assent, which is truly deadly.
No, if you arrived at belief by reading, study and meditation, then believing, that’s then works based and invalid. Red card, off the field mate. Go on.
I'm sorry, Cathode, you're a very nice person, and I don't want to come across as overbearing and rude.
But I have no choice in the matter. I answer to the Almighty God in what I say and do. I am responsible for my words, and even when my words are absent. I'm responsible for what I should have said!
There is only one way for the fallen depraved man to come to Christ. It's the Hearing, by any means, as I said in another thread, a person can pick up a piece of paper blowing in the wind, and it says something along the of, "Christ died for your sins," or "God so loved the world that He gave..." the Holy Spirit can use that Word of God to penetrate man's depravity and convict him in the Truth.
I'm sorry, Cathode, you're a very nice person, and I don't want to come across as overbearing and rude.
But I have no choice in the matter. I answer to the Almighty God in what I say and do. I am responsible for my words, and even when my words are absent. I'm responsible for what I should have said!
There is only one way for the fallen depraved man to come to Christ. It's the Hearing, by any means, as I said in another thread, a person can pick up a piece of paper blowing in the wind, and it says something along the of, "Christ died for your sins," or "God so loved the world that He gave..." the Holy Spirit can use that Word of God to penetrate man's depravity and convict him in the Truth.
Let’s try simplify this.
Do you believe baptism saves, or is it merely symbolic to you?
The problem is, you don’t understand about salvation. It’s not a one off event. It’s a process of becoming like Christ and remaining faithful until death.
Faith is faithfulness, not just intellectual assent, which is truly deadly.
There lies the deep-imbedded lie of Catholicism. Contrary, Salvation is not a process.
This process the Catholics hold is the way of works to salvation, wherewith man will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Let’s try simplify this.
Do you believe baptism saves, or is it merely symbolic to you?
You don't understand Colossians 2, where Paul shows us that Baptism is a spiritual baptism.
Remember Paul said "One Baptism?"
That One Baptism is a spiritual baptism, where the water baptism is a visible proof of the spiritual baptism that took place at the very moment of believing in Christ.
It's called the Circumcision Made Without Hands. It's the spiritual operation of God being spiritually baptized into Christ.
Col. 2:11-14
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
If you like I can go through the Scripture and give you a better undertaking of this. If you are willing to go there with me!