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Baptism?
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
One baptism. There is a twofold sense in which this is true. First, there is one baptism by the Spirit, by which those who trust Christ are placed in the body (1Co_12:13). Then there is one baptism by which converts confess their identification with Christ in death, burial, and resurrection. Though there are different modes of baptism today, the NT recognizes one believers' baptism, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. By being baptized, disciples express allegiance to Christ, the burial of their old self, and a determination to walk in newness of life. BBC
There is only one mode possible Scripturally, and that is immersion. That is the only meaning of the Greek noun baptesma (βαπτεσμα) and verb baptizo (βαπτιζω). No other mode was used for the first several centuries of church history. Along in the 3rd century, pouring began to be used for sick people at home, but even then immersion was the norm. Sprinkling and pouring both lose the meaning of the Greek word and the significance of the ordinance as representing the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
Many years ago the first foreign missionary from America, Adoniram Judson, left for the field. Sent by the Congregationalists and believing in sprinkling, he boarded a ship with his wife. On the ship he began to study the issue so that when he reached the mission field and partnered with William Carey, the "father of modern missions, he could hold his own. However, on the ship he learned he had to change his position to immersion because the evidence for it was overwhelming. He wrote his mission board and reported his change, then changed his sending agency to the Baptist board.
Many years ago the first foreign missionary from America, Adoniram Judson, left for the field. Sent by the Congregationalists and believing in sprinkling, he boarded a ship with his wife. On the ship he began to study the issue so that when he reached the mission field and partnered with William Carey, the "father of modern missions, he could hold his own. However, on the ship he learned he had to change his position to immersion because the evidence for it was overwhelming. He wrote his mission board and reported his change, then changed his sending agency to the Baptist board.
When I was a Driving instructor- I had a student who was Greek. On day, his mom rode in the back seat during the lesson.
I "just happened" to go by a Greek church. So I asked mom what it said it the cornerstone, and she told me. I then asked and she confirmed she was Greek Orthodox. I then asked why the Greeks immerse their babies. She told me that what the word means - (as opposed to sprinkling) Well, since she is Greek - I assume she is familliar with the Greek Language!
I "just happened" to go by a Greek church. So I asked mom what it said it the cornerstone, and she told me. I then asked and she confirmed she was Greek Orthodox. I then asked why the Greeks immerse their babies. She told me that what the word means - (as opposed to sprinkling) Well, since she is Greek - I assume she is familliar with the Greek Language!
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I should have added that there is only one biblical means of baptism for believers that being immersion, my error. I did not want to change the quote from BBC.
What BBC shows is that there are varied positions on baptism.
Thank you for correcting my oversight.
My thoughts: Nowhere in the Bible is an infant baptized. Baptism comes after salvation, not before. If someone says that they are not baptizing a baby for salvation, but for dedication, then fine, but in that child's future, he/she should not assume they are saved because they were baptized as a baby.
Nowhere in the Bible was anyone baptized by pouring or sprinkling. They were baptized there because there was much water there, John 3:23. If pouring or sprinkling was a correct form of baptizing, then why would it be necessary to have "much water?" If we look at the grammatical context of "...John baptized him," that would mean that John took that person and immersed him in water. If the phrase said, "John sprinkled him," that would mean that John took that person and sprinkled that person all around and did not sprinkle water "on" him.
Baptism itself does not save anyone. Baptism is a sign that one has been saved before he/she was baptized. As kyredneck said, baptism is "An act of profession."
Joe
Nowhere in the Bible was anyone baptized by pouring or sprinkling. They were baptized there because there was much water there, John 3:23. If pouring or sprinkling was a correct form of baptizing, then why would it be necessary to have "much water?" If we look at the grammatical context of "...John baptized him," that would mean that John took that person and immersed him in water. If the phrase said, "John sprinkled him," that would mean that John took that person and sprinkled that person all around and did not sprinkle water "on" him.
Baptism itself does not save anyone. Baptism is a sign that one has been saved before he/she was baptized. As kyredneck said, baptism is "An act of profession."
Joe
Possibly here:
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple of the city of Thyatira, one that worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened to give heed unto the things which were spoken by Paul.
15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us. Acts 16
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, immediately.
34 And he brought them up into his house, and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, with all his house, having believed in God. Acts 16
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 1 Cor 1
???
6 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
The relevance of Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21 to salvation is so very clear that for the first 1,500 years of the church there was no dispute as to their proper interpretation. For the very large majority of Christian denominations that relevance is still very clear. By comparison, the mode of baptism and the meaning of the Greek word βαπτίζω are insignificant.
"believeth" is the key word here. Baptism alone is not enough. One must believe first.
Possibly here? I think not. Do any of these passages mention a baby or an infant? The age of any of the household is not mentioned. One cannot say that babies were included, and I don't believe any were.
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The mode of baptism is very significant. If pouring or sprinkling was not done in the Bible then to add the practice of pouring or sprinkling later is just wrong.
Wrong. 'Saved' is the key word here. The questions to evangelicals are, saved/delivered/rescued from what? Who is the audience?
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The Bible verse even you quoted says "Believeth." So I will go with that.
Joe
It also says "Baptized".
'Saved', from what? Too hard of a question?
Who is the audience? Too hard of a question?
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So, you have nothing better to do on a Sunday evening than to try to goad a fellow Christian into some kind of an argument (or whatever you are trying to do) and make him look bad on a public forum by asking a question that you already know the answer to. Please, kindly refrain from ever replying to one of my posts again and I will not reply to any of yours.
Best,
Joe
Best,
Joe
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Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
I wrote,
“By comparison, the mode of baptism and the meaning of the Greek word βαπτίζω are insignificant.”
Where in the Bible do you find anyone being submerged in a baptismal tank or in any other body of standing water? The practice of pouring or sprinkling has saved millions of lives—especially in places where standing water is very likely to be to be hygienically dangerous and in cold climates.
Where? Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:9-10, Acts 8:36-39, John 3:23, Romans 6: 3-4
I've never heard of anyone who died from getting baptized by full emersion, nor have I ever heard of anyone getting sick from being baptized by full emersion.