Baptism

Istherenotacause thank you for your kind reply. I guess what I am trying to do is see the scriptual reasons because anything we uphold as truth I believe we must be able to prove it from scripture. I have not yet see enough scriptual proof that that there is this invisable baptism by the Holy Spirit. That is why I am asking for Scripture.

Richard

 

The "invisible baptism" of the Spirit seems clear enough. We can't see the Spirit. We are taught explicitly that there is Spirit baptism. Christ and Paul both taught it. Any baptism by an invisible Spirit must of necessity be invisible. Furthermore, it is not experiential but forensic. When Paul says that we were all baptized into one body, that tells us that Spirit baptism is the forming "agent" of the body of Christ, of which there is only one.

 

Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

These verses show you that John baptized with water. They were overwhelmed with, immersed with, covered over with, surrounded with water. Peter tells them that Jesus Christ himself said that they would be baptized with the Holy Ghost. They will be overwhelmed with, immersed with, covered over with, surrounded with the Holy Ghost.

Spiritual baptism

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Universal - All Christians have the Spirit.

I Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,

One body (not many little local bodies)

17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen

Invisible

 

How is 'in' more Biblical than "by" if en means both? Could it be brethren that we are baptized into the body which is the family of God, by one Spirit. Can we say that all are truly a part of the church regardless of the doctrine that is taught?


Bro. Dallas

[ May 28, 2003, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Frogman ]

 

Then how do we follow the teaching of Christ concerning offences? We are to tell the person, then if needed take witness and then tell it to the church. Where is this invisible church that I must take it to?

Richard

 

As far as I am concerned this shows what the Holy Ghost baptism is all about.

Not orginal with me but what I believe.

Richard

 

It wasn't a one time event. Peter referred to it again in Acts 11. Paul refers to it in three of his epistles (Romans, Ephesians, and Galatians - each reference directly tied to being one with Christ of which water baptism is powerless to do).

 

It does not mean both in teh same context unless there are used as synonyms. A word only has one meaning in context. The issue is more instrumental vs. locative. The answer is probably instrumental (by) rather than locative (into), though either way, it is still a baptism that brings one into the body.

On this issue, yes. However, that does not mean we can be loose or sloppy with doctrine simply because it does not affect our salvation. It is still necessary to hold right doctrine.

 

The existence of the invisible church does not preclude the existence of teh visible church. To set these two at odds is not justified. The invisible church is all believers of this age regardless of their location. The visible church is the local body of believers that assemble together. You do not take matters of church discipline to the invisible church for obvious reasons. However, that does not mean that the invisible church does not exist.

 

Try looking very discreetly at Romans 6,7,&8 concerning the believer's position in Christ, also distinguish between literal "body" and the Spiritual "Body" of Christ, that'll help. It's all there, in your King James Bible!

In His Holy Service,

Brother Ricky

 

I dunno.. this seems like a subtle way to continue to slip charisma into the Baptist church..

 

I was not suggesting we be sloppy with doctrine. I believe the teaching of a universal church that all are baptized into by the Spirit is pretty sloppy.

I accept the thought that the Spirit Baptizes believers into the Family of God, but not into the church. I believe I can be saved and never receive water baptism yet still I will be in the Family of God, but never a part of the church. The church is said to be the body of Christ. It is likened to the institution of marriage, (the twain shall become one flesh), this is by believer's baptism which identifies the believer with the church. Spiritual baptism is an indwelling that must occur prior to immersion.

I did not suggest anywhere that we be loose or sloppy with our doctrine, I was saying that to concede that all are part of the church and thus the bride is what is being loose or sloppy.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

How so??? There is charisma in the NT (Baptist) Church. There are not sign gifts, but baptism of the Spirit is not synonymous with that. You seem like you are defining "Baptism" by what the charismatics say rather than by what Scripture says. Don't let their bad teaching affect our doctrine. Let's correct them.

 

I did not mean to sound personal about that. Please forgive me. My point was that just because something does not affect our eternal salvation does not mean it is a peripheral issue.

Then you must answer the text of Scripture which teaches there is only one body of Christ (not many little local bodies as someone said), and you must deal with the fact taht "we all" were baptized into that "one body" by "one Spirit." The burden of proof is on those who disagree with what seems very clearly to be an explicit text. I don't know how you get around this one.

But the text says that he baptizes us into "one body" which he defines Scripturally as "the church" (Col 1; Eph 3). The family of God in the NT is his body which is the church.

So you believe that there are two groups of believers in this age??? The "bride" and the "unbaptized saved"??? That doesn't make much sense to me. I think you have to overcome an awful lot of Scripture to make that dog walk.

 

It's "hunt", Pastor Larry, "...to make that dog HUNT." You ain't from around here, are ya? (just teasing)

Frogman, what local church would the Ethiopian Eunuch have been baptized into? Are you saying that when a person is baptized that they are automatically a member of whatever local church the baptizer is a member of?

 

Question: Can just anyone baptise or was the commission given to the church?

Richard

 

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Who was Jesus talking to? The church, no, it didn't exist yet. His disciples, His followers, Christians, Believers. The commission was committed to the committed.

 

You are right. I was mixing my metaphors. I had a professor who used to talk of making verses "walk on all fours" to get a particular doctrine out of them. The dog hunt was what I meant; the "walk on all fours" was being conflated.

As for the commission, it was given to the apostles in their role as founders of the church. The great commission was a commission to plant church with properly baptized disciples. "Disciple, baptize, teach" are all functions of the local church. The theology of baptism is that water baptism brings one into the membership of the local church. The only possible problem text is Acts 8 with the Eunuch, which is an exception, not the rule.

 

How so??? There is charisma in the NT (Baptist) Church. There are not sign gifts, but baptism of the Spirit is not synonymous with that. You seem like you are defining "Baptism" by what the charismatics say rather than by what Scripture says. Don't let their bad teaching affect our doctrine. Let's correct them. </font>[/QUOTE]Pastor,
Ok, I think I follow you now. I had to read that a couple of times.
Question though: If you had to make really strong case for what someone on here termed "invisible" HS baptism by scripture , what would you say?

 

I've seen some dogs that hunted good, but were gun shy as well. Bought one once and was told by the seller he easily supply the limit of rabbits (it was a beagle hound), the problem was that he (the dog) thought one was the limit, we shot the first rabbit and lost the dog...found him loaded on the truck.


Bro. Dallas Eaton