Baptism

[MorganT]

I recently dealt with this. Since baptism is an entry rite into the local church, you would be baptizing someone you would have to immediately discipline. Better to teach them the gospel thorough and avoid the situation.

When I dealt with it, I explained to the couple what the Bible taught about the meaning of baptism as a public confession of Christ as Lord, and about the incompatibility of continuing willfully in known sin, and they immediately understood and decided to get married. It was really pretty easy when you depend on the Bible rather than man's ideas.

Could you explain your position on AN ENTRY RITE INTO THE LOCAL CHURCH please. When I was baptized I wasnt exercising some rite that I have by joining the local Country Club, I mean Church, I was being baptized into Jesus Christ Church and guess what, I figure that means every one of them. I can go walk into a Methodist Church and call a man there Brother, just like I can go into a Pentacostal Church and call a man there Brother, I can walk into a Non denominational church and call a man there Brother, just like I walk into a Bapitst Church and call you brother. Could you please show me some scripture that says that its A RITE I HAVE to join your particular Church. When they baptized in the New Teastament they were added to the CHURCH, I believe a man only needs to be baptized once in his life and its into Jesus Christ Church, not into your particular UNIT. I probably sound harsh in this but I really dont mean to sound that way, its just always bugged me for people to act like they are joining the Country Club, ive talked to people that have been baptized every time they change churchs. WHY????

 

[Tom Butler]

Pastor Larry is correct that water baptism is the gateway to membership in a local congregation. Pastor Larry may not agree with this reason, but the fact is that the local church is the only kind there is.

The only church Jesus established was an assembly of believers composed at first of the twelve disciples. At first a traveling group, it finally located at Jerusalem and grew to 120. The 3,000 saved on the Day of Pentecost were all baptized and added to that number.

The Great Commission was given to an assembly. He committed the preaching, evangelism, missions, teaching and administering the ordinances to the local church.

The congregation shall determine whom it shall baptize and receive as a member. It would be the height of inconsistency and hypocrisy to baptize one living in sin, and admit them to membership, when the same behavior would get them disfellowshipped if they were already a member.

Jesus shed his blood for my congregation, just as Paul said he did for the church at Ephesus. Paul described the church at Corinth as THE body of Christ. Believers were all water-baptized into that body (I Cor 12:13)

Each congregation should protect the integrity of the ordinances. A pastor who would baptize someone who knowingly and willfully continues in sin is abdicating his responsibility.

 

[Darron Steele]

Pastor Larry is correct that water baptism is the gateway to membership in a local congregation. ...

Maybe in Baptist congregation constitutions.

Not so in Scripture.

...
The congregation shall determine whom it shall baptize and receive as a member.

The congregation shall determine when it will do as Jesus Christ expressly told us to do at Matthew 28:19-20? I will not presume to such.

It would be the height of inconsistency and hypocrisy to baptize one living in sin, and admit them to membership,...

It is the height of inconsistency and hypocrisy to refuse to do as Jesus Christ expressly said at Matthew 28:19-20, and rebuke others for sin.

Each congregation should protect the integrity of the ordinances. A pastor who would baptize someone who knowingly and willfully continues in sin is abdicating his responsibility.

Every pastor who would refuse to do as Jesus Christ expressly said at Matthew 28:19-20 is rejecting his responsibility.

The commands of Jesus Christ to His church are not open to our `discretion.' Jesus Christ said at Matthew 28:19-20 “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations|. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach them to obey everything that I have taught you,| and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (NASB|NCV|NASB). He told us to baptize converts, and we are to do so promptly.

 

[MorganT]

Pastor Larry is correct that water baptism is the gateway to membership in a local congregation. Pastor Larry may not agree with this reason, but the fact is that the local church is the only kind there is.

The only church Jesus established was an assembly of believers composed at first of the twelve disciples. At first a traveling group, it finally located at Jerusalem and grew to 120. The 3,000 saved on the Day of Pentecost were all baptized and added to that number.

The Great Commission was given to an assembly. He committed the preaching, evangelism, missions, teaching and administering the ordinances to the local church.

The congregation shall determine whom it shall baptize and receive as a member. It would be the height of inconsistency and hypocrisy to baptize one living in sin, and admit them to membership, when the same behavior would get them disfellowshipped if they were already a member.

Jesus shed his blood for my congregation, just as Paul said he did for the church at Ephesus. Paul described the church at Corinth as THE body of Christ. Believers were all water-baptized into that body (I Cor 12:13)

Each congregation should protect the integrity of the ordinances. A pastor who would baptize someone who knowingly and willfully continues in sin is abdicating his responsibility.

Well brother while you are casting those stones at those people for living in sin unmarried, why not cast a few at all the divorced and remarried people sitting there also. OH wait you just lost half the congregation but you keep throughing those stones and adhering to your views, Ill stick with what the word says and not some lose interpretation of a view. I cant understand how all those divorced and remarried people who by the way are commiting adultry can be married by Pastors but it might have something to do with those green backs that have a 100 on them, those unmarried people dont give those 100 out though so I guess they are special and have extra stones cast at them.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Many baptist churches' method for an individual to become membership, by follow immediatley after baptized at the same time, person is automatically become membership by join a local baptist church same time. It is unbiblical.

"added unto the Lord" of Acts 2, does not mean that a person immediately become "membershiP' follow immediately after baptized. Rather, this psssage is speaking of when after people baptized, they were added into God's FAMILY as more children. Understand clear? Also, Acts chapter 2 say nothing of "local church". This chapter 2 speaks of Jews were added upon the tree(Romans 11) join with Christ as commonwealth means, people are belong to Christ's as family.

That why, Baptist churches' philosophy of become membership by follow after baptized is obivously unbiblcal!

In my opinion toward baptist churches' philosophy on added members, in their purpose is, to make more business by make more money from the members by giving 'tithes', the very exactly or specifically 10% come from their gross income taxes. That why there are so many baptist churches are bigger and become "super mega church" in America. Sad. Many churches are focus on money as wealthy and fame rather than focus on lost souls. These are facts of present time. Sorry to saying it.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Tom Butler]

Well brother while you are casting those stones at those people for living in sin unmarried, why not cast a few at all the divorced and remarried people sitting there also. OH wait you just lost half the congregation but you keep throughing those stones and adhering to your views, Ill stick with what the word says and not some lose interpretation of a view. I cant understand how all those divorced and remarried people who by the way are commiting adultry can be married by Pastors but it might have something to do with those green backs that have a 100 on them, those unmarried people dont give those 100 out though so I guess they are special and have extra stones cast at them.

When Paul wrote to the church at Corinth, he blistered the congregation for failure to deal with a member who was involved in an illicit relationship with his father's wife. In I Cor 5, he told them to kick this man out of the congregation. He, Paul, said he'd already passed judgment on the situation, even though he wasn't there. Part of Paul's tirade was that the congregation was not upset about it, and in fact seem to be "glorying" in it. Paul was not only casting stones, he was hurling boulders at the Corinthian congregation. He told the members, "don't even eat with this guy."

I'm also reminded that when some Pharisees and Sadducees came to John the Baptist, asking for baptism, he didn't mince words. He called them a "generation of vipers," and demanded that they first show evidence of repentance. (Matt 3: 7-8).

The situation described in the OP is a no-brainer.

 

[Tom Butler]

He told us to baptize converts, and we are to do so promptly.

Although the scripture you cite does not mention prompt baptism of converts, as a general rule, that is exactly what happens in the typical Baptist church. It happened on the day of Pentecost when 3,000 were baptized and added to the church.

But in this thread we are dealing with a specific situation, outlined in the OP by Friend of Spurgeon:

Susan attends a Baptist church. Susan's close friend (Julie) and Julie's boyfriend (Tom) have been visiting her church quite regularly. Recently Julie went forward during an invitation for a profession of faith. She also wanted to be baptized. The pastor has refused to baptize her since she and Tom are living together.

This is a true story, though names have been changed. So what say you? What is the correct Scriptural stance on this?

Here we have a known situation. And we have the story of John the Baptist I cited in an earlier post, where he refused to baptize some Pharisees and Sadducees until they showed evidence of repentance. I am truly amazed that there is any debate whatsoever about this scenario.

But, I suppose when one erroneously separates baptism from church membership, this is what you get.

 

[Tom Butler]

Many baptist churches' method for an individual to become membership, by follow immediatley after baptized at the same time, person is automatically become membership by join a local baptist church same time. It is unbiblical.

"added unto the Lord" of Acts 2, does not mean that a person immediately become "membershiP' follow immediately after baptized. Rather, this psssage is speaking of when after people baptized, they were added into God's FAMILY as more children. Understand clear? Also, Acts chapter 2 say nothing of "local church". This chapter 2 speaks of Jews were added upon the tree(Romans 11) join with Christ as commonwealth means, people are belong to Christ's as family.

That why, Baptist churches' philosophy of become membership by follow after baptized is obivously unbiblcal!

It would be helpful to the discussion if you would not mis-quote the scriptures you use to support your position. Acts 2 specifically says those who were baptized were added to the church, It does not say they were "added to the Lord."

When Acts 2 speaks of the church, it is speaking of the local church, because that's the only one which existed at the time. It was a congregation, an assembly. It was not a tree.

We can have a good discussion whether "family of God" is the same as a local church, or the kingdom composed of all believers. I'll take either side and give you a good argument. But Acts 2 says the new believers were added to the church.

In my opinion toward baptist churches' philosophy on added members, in their purpose is, to make more business by make more money from the members by giving 'tithes', the very exactly or specifically 10% come from their gross income taxes. That why there are so many baptist churches are bigger and become "super mega church" in America. Sad. Many churches are focus on money as wealthy and fame rather than focus on lost souls. These are facts of present time. Sorry to saying it.

I'm sure there are churches like the ones you described, but it's not fair to paint all of them with the same brush.

 

[MorganT]

When Paul wrote to the church at Corinth, he blistered the congregation for failure to deal with a member who was involved in an illicit relationship with his father's wife. In I Cor 5, he told them to kick this man out of the congregation. He, Paul, said he'd already passed judgment on the situation, even though he wasn't there. Part of Paul's tirade was that the congregation was not upset about it, and in fact seem to be "glorying" in it. Paul was not only casting stones, he was hurling boulders at the Corinthian congregation. He told the members, "don't even eat with this guy."

I'm also reminded that when some Pharisees and Sadducees came to John the Baptist, asking for baptism, he didn't mince words. He called them a "generation of vipers," and demanded that they first show evidence of repentance. (Matt 3: 7-8).

The situation described in the OP is a no-brainer.

So when people go down to ask to become members of the church does the Pastor ask them is this your first and only marriage. What Im saying is that I dont see the difference in either case however since they are MARRIED we just tend to overlook the sin of adultry. Yes I know not every case of being remarried is a sin but Im talking about the one that is. Why is it OK for the Married couple living in sin better than a non married couple just living together. ITS THE SAME DIFFERENCE.

 

[Tom Butler]

So when people go down to ask to become members of the church does the Pastor ask them is this your first and only marriage. What Im saying is that I dont see the difference in either case however since they are MARRIED we just tend to overlook the sin of adultry. Yes I know not every case of being remarried is a sin but Im talking about the one that is. Why is it OK for the Married couple living in sin better than a non married couple just living together. ITS THE SAME DIFFERENCE.

I'm dealing in this discussion with the known facts of the OP. The question of divorce and remarriage is for another thread. Sorry, I'm not biting.

I will, however, quote my former boss, who owned the TV station I worked for. He cancelled an NBC program he found offensive. When questioned why he permitted other programs to air that might be offensive to some, his reply was, "I don't know what to do about them. But I do know what to do about this one, and it's gone."

 

[Pastor Larry]

Where does the Bible teach any of this?

All over. Read Acts 2: received the word, were baptized, and added to the church. Baptism is the public confession of Christ as Lord, which is what brings one into the church.

If so, then the pastor should baptize the converts promptly, rather than disobey Matthew 28:19-20.

Not sure what version you are reading, but I have seen no version that specifies "promptly" as the timing for baptism. Can you show me that in your Bible? You and I both know you can't.

Baptism is the public profession of Christ as Lord. If a person is living in open sin, then they are not following Christ as Lord. Why baptize someone as a lie?

Anytime the Bible tells us to do something, and we do not do it, we sin. Anytime we refuse to do what the Bible says based upon ideas which Scripture does not teach, we follow "man's ideas" above the Bible -- and continue willfully in sin.

I absolutely agree, which is why I said what I said. When a couple is living together, they are are sinning. They are candidates for church discipline.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Could you explain your position on AN ENTRY RITE INTO THE LOCAL CHURCH please.

Not satisfactorily is you think the church is a country club. But when you read the Bible, they received the word, were baptized, and added to the church. Not sure how that is confusing. Perhaps if you ask a more clear question, I can give it a more clear answer.

When I was baptized I wasnt exercising some rite that I have by joining the local Country Club, I mean Church, I was being baptized into Jesus Christ Church and guess what, I figure that means every one of them.

You figured wrong.

I believe a man only needs to be baptized once in his life and its into Jesus Christ Church, not into your particular UNIT.

As do I.

I probably sound harsh in this but I really dont mean to sound that way,

You do sound harsh, and you sound like you haven't really given it much thought. I am a member of a country club and it is nothing like being a member of a church. Perhaps that is the root of your confusion. You don't know what the church is.

ive talked to people that have been baptized every time they change churchs. WHY????

I don't know. Ask them or the church they joined. Baptists typically recognize the baptism of other baptist or baptistic churches.

 

[Pastor Larry]

The congregation shall determine when it will do as Jesus Christ expressly told us to do at Matthew 28:19-20? I will not presume to such.

Who else would determine it? You are determining it and trying to do so for everyone else by saying it must be done immediately.

First, you have no right to tell another church how to operate. If a church refuses to baptize, they are disobeying Christ. If they refuse to baptize according to your schedule, they are disobeying you. The first is serious. The second is irrelevant.

Second, what is prompt? Is that within the hour? The week? Or is it within seconds? Who gets to define promptly?

Third, why would you baptize someone that you would have to immediately discipline? Why would you allow someone to make a false statement in front of the church? I don't get that. I want to prevent lying in the church, not promote it.

It is the height of inconsistency and hypocrisy to refuse to do as Jesus Christ expressly said at Matthew 28:19-20, and rebuke others for sin.

I don't know of any Baptist churches who refuse to baptize. Do you?

Every pastor who would refuse to do as Jesus Christ expressly said at Matthew 28:19-20 is rejecting his responsibility.

I agree.

The commands of Jesus Christ to His church are not open to our `discretion.' Jesus Christ said at Matthew 28:19-20 “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations|. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach them to obey everything that I have taught you,| and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (NASB|NCV|NASB). He told us to baptize converts, and we are to do so promptly.

Notice how you added something. Jesus did not say to do so promptly, at least in any version I know of.

Your willingness to play fast and loose with the Scriptures is unacceptable for a believer. You don't get to add to it, or take away from it.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Well brother while you are casting those stones at those people for living in sin unmarried, why not cast a few at all the divorced and remarried people sitting there also.

If there are any divorced and remarried people living in sin, they should be addressed.

I cant understand how all those divorced and remarried people who by the way are commiting adultry

If they are married, they are not committing adultery, though they may have done so in the past.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Many baptist churches' method for an individual to become membership, by follow immediatley after baptized at the same time, person is automatically become membership by join a local baptist church same time. It is unbiblical.

Yes, I agree. No one is automatically joined to the church. They are received by the congregation.

"added unto the Lord" of Acts 2

I must have a defective translation because I don't see "added unto the Lord" in Acts 2. I see the Lord adding to the church, or their number.

Rather, this psssage is speaking of when after people baptized, they were added into God's FAMILY as more children.

Yes exactly. And God's family is the local church,.

Also, Acts chapter 2 say nothing of "local church".

It is the church at Jerusalem. That, by definition, is local.

That why, Baptist churches' philosophy of become membership by follow after baptized is obivously unbiblcal!

Obviously? Then why have centuries of people who love God and his word disagreed with you?

In my opinion

You have certainly offered a lot of this. It would be better to talk about Scripture.

 

[Darron Steele]

The commands of Jesus Christ to His church are not open to our `discretion.' Jesus Christ said at Matthew 28:19-20 “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations|. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach them to obey everything that I have taught you,| and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (NASB|NCV|NASB). He told us to baptize converts, and we are to do so promptly.

Who else would determine it? You are determining it and trying to do so for everyone else by saying it must be done immediately.

First, you have no right to tell another church how to operate. If a church refuses to baptize, they are disobeying Christ. If they refuse to baptize according to your schedule, they are disobeying you. The first is serious. The second is irrelevant.

It is not my schedule. It is the Lord's schedule.

When you refuse to baptize a convert, you are acting on your timetable.

When a Christian simply does what the passage says, and baptizes a new Christian, s/he follows the Lord's timetable.

You are right it is not my place to tell another congregation what to do. It is, however, the Lord's place to give instructions to the church.

It is not the place of congregation authorities to refuse to do what Jesus Christ told His church to do.

Second, what is prompt? Is that within the hour? The week? Or is it within seconds? Who gets to define promptly?

As quickly as feasible.

Third, why would you baptize someone that you would have to immediately discipline? Why would you allow someone to make a false statement in front of the church? I don't get that. I want to prevent lying in the church, not promote it.

What false statement? I have not a clue what you are talking about.

If a convert asks for baptism, you baptize the convert -- as Jesus Christ told you to. If you are convinced a person is not a convert, you do not baptize the person.

I don't know of any Baptist churches who refuse to baptize. Do you?

Yeah, I do. Anytime a new convert asks for baptism, and congregation authorities refuse, they refuse to baptize.

Notice how you added something. Jesus did not say to do so promptly, at least in any version I know of.

Your willingness to play fast and loose with the Scriptures is unacceptable for a believer. You don't get to add to it, or take away from it.

How else is a REASONABLE understanding of Jesus Christ's placing the command to baptize between making and teaching new Christians?

To me, it is a no-brainer: we do not delay instruction of new Christians. We do not say `not yet' to teaching new Christians. We do not withhold instruction from new Christians. We dare not do the same with baptism -- at least, I do not.

As for your specious and false accusation that I "play fast and loose with the Scriptures," I guess you can get away with that as a moderator. I am just advocating that we do exactly as Scripture says; you are someone advocating doing otherwise in some cases. Just remember when you make false accusations: the Lord Jesus Christ is above both of us, and with Him there is no partiality. Be careful how you handle authority, as both you and I have an Authority above us.

If that is the sort of thing I can expect from you, it is not worth it to me. So, I guess you `win' by forfeit.

 

[Pastor Larry]

It is not my schedule. It is the Lord's schedule.

Where did the Lord say “promptly”? And where did he define as you have (“as quickly as feasible” which I don’t see in Scripture either)? These are simple questions. Please answer them.

When you refuse to baptize a convert, you are acting on your timetable.

The discussion here is not about refusing to baptize a convert. Please do not get distracted.

When a Christian simply does what the passage says, and baptizes a new Christian, s/he follows the Lord's timetable.

Where did the Lord give this timetable?

You are right it is not my place to tell another congregation what to do.

Then stop.

It is, however, the Lord's place to give instructions to the church.

It is not the place of congregation authorities to refuse to do what Jesus Christ told His church to do.

Corret.

As quickly as feasible.

And what does that mean?

What false statement? I have not a clue what you are talking about.

When someone gets baptized, they are making a public confession of Jesus as Lord. When they are living in sin, they are making a public statement that Jesus is not Lord. By baptizing them, you are allowing them to make a false statement.

If a convert asks for baptism, you baptize the convert -- as Jesus Christ told you to. If you are convinced a person is not a convert, you do not baptize the person.

Of course. But how do you determine if someone is a convert?

Yeah, I do. Anytime a new convert asks for baptism, and congregation authorities refuse, they refuse to baptize.

Okay. I have never heard of that. The congregation and the pastor should not refuse baptism to a convert. This discussion, as I understand it, is about the timing involved.

How else is a REASONABLE understanding of Jesus Christ's placing the command to baptize between making and teaching new Christians?

Teaching is an ongoing process. There is obviously teaching that needs to be done before baptism, such as the facts of the gospel and the nature of baptism.

As for your specious and false accusation that I "play fast and loose with the Scriptures," I guess you can get away with that as a moderator.

No, it’s based on the Scripture. You added to it by saying “promptly.” As you can tell by reading the Scripture, Scripture does not say that. In fact, Scripture gives no teaching on the time frame between conversion and baptism. In Acts 19, you have what appears to be a considerable time in between. In Acts 2 and 16, you have a very narrow time frame.

I am just advocating that we do exactly as Scripture says

So where does Scripture say this? It doesn’t, and you know it, or you would have quoted it by now.

Just remember when you make false accusations: the Lord Jesus Christ is above both of us, and with Him there is no partiality. Be careful how you handle authority, as both you and I have an Authority above us.

First, I have no authority in this forum. Second, I haven’t made a false accusation. I stated a fact and demonstrated the truth of it. Your own words condemn you in this matter.

So, I guess you `win' by forfeit.

I think I win by the text … since the text doesn’t say what you claim it says. That is a pretty major issue don’t you think?

 

[MorganT]

Not satisfactorily is you think the church is a country club. But when you read the Bible, they received the word, were baptized, and added to the church. Not sure how that is confusing. Perhaps if you ask a more clear question, I can give it a more clear answer.

You figured wrong.

As do I.

You do sound harsh, and you sound like you haven't really given it much thought. I am a member of a country club and it is nothing like being a member of a church. Perhaps that is the root of your confusion. You don't know what the church is.

I don't know. Ask them or the church they joined. Baptists typically recognize the baptism of other baptist or baptistic churches.

You and I both know and I dont think that we have to pretend about this, that alot of people today go to church for a social event, its evident. When I call it a country club, Im referring to those that attend worship service on Sunday Morning, preaching only and have a great social event for about 30 minutes after the service and not seen again or heard from until the next Sunday morning. You can look around on a Sunday night or a Wednesday night and tell who the CORE church is, so why sugar coat it. Why do you think that on Sunday morning your attendace doubles or triples. How many times have you seen people leave the church over a disagreement, I mean come on, if there only there to worship GOD then none of that would come into play. Im sorry you feel that I dont know what CHURCH is but Im not going to pretend or sugar coat anything just so you feel better. I go to church for one thing and one thing only and thats to WORSHIP GOD with other believers as laid out in the Bible, not only that I worhip him on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesay, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Worship is your state of mind before God, not showing up for church for an hour. Oh and another thing I dont think being Baptist is going to get anyone into heaven, so you can jump off that ship pretty quick. Jesus Christ gets you into heaven and the reason I am Baptist is because I think they are the closest to being right with doctrine, you will notice though I didnt say they were the only ones that were right. By the way I think you are wrong when you say they were baptized into a local church and not into Jesus Christ, because Jesus is the head of the CHURCH, it his bride

So with that being said, please explain to me if they were all baptized into the local church in Acts 2 how you can conclude that since Act 2:5 And dwelling at Jerusalem there were Jews, devout men out of every nation under heaven.
these people that were there for Pentacost were from every nation under heaven and were in Jerusalem for Pentacost, your conclusion doesnt make since to me since these people would be returning to there homes from all over the place. I conclude that conclusion because of the next verse Act 2:6 But this sound occurring, the multitude came together and were confounded, because they each heard them speaking in his own dialect. This plainly tells me that they were from all over the world because they spoke diffent languages. So maybe you need to reconclude what you think the bible is saying for what it really is saying. These people were added into Jesus Christ Church and not the local church as you think.

 

[Darron Steele]

Just to clarify any misunderstanding:

I am just advocating that we do exactly as Scripture says

So where does Scripture say this? It doesn’t, and you know it, or you would have quoted it by now.

I have, sir:

Jesus Christ said at Matthew 28:19-20 “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations|. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach them to obey everything that I have taught you,| and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (NASB|NCV|NASB).

Your position is that we not baptize converts if they have an unresolved public sin, if I understand it right.

My position is that we just do as the text says: when converts are made, baptize them. I have quoted Scripture, sir. It is unfortunate that you would deny that I did so.

This is your second wrongful accusation of me. Again, as moderator, please be careful how you handle authority. We all have a common Authority above us, and with Him, there is no partiality.

 

[Pastor Larry]

You and I both know and I dont think that we have to pretend about this, that alot of people today go to church for a social event, its evident. When I call it a country club, Im referring to those that attend worship service on Sunday Morning, preaching only and have a great social event for about 30 minutes after the service and not seen again or heard from until the next Sunday morning.

Perhaps they don't understand what the church is either.

You can look around on a Sunday night or a Wednesday night and tell who the CORE church is, so why sugar coat it.

What about churches who don't have Sunday nights or Wednesday nights?

Why do you think that on Sunday morning your attendace doubles or triples.

Could be a lot of reasons.

How many times have you seen people leave the church over a disagreement, I mean come on, if there only there to worship GOD then none of that would come into play.

That's not true. Some stuff matters becuase you are there to worship God.

Im sorry you feel that I dont know what CHURCH is but Im not going to pretend or sugar coat anything just so you feel better.

I am just going off of what you say here. I don't feel bad and I couldnt' feel any better about it. The Bible defines church, and it doesn't define it as a country club, or as a place where you go only to worship God.

I go to church for one thing and one thing only and thats to WORSHIP GOD with other believers as laid out in the Bible

That's unfortunate. You should also go to church to learn, to exhort fellow believers, to be exhorted, to serve one another, to pray together, to share your lives together. This again seems to indicate that you don't know what church is about.

Oh and another thing I dont think being Baptist is going to get anyone into heaven, so you can jump off that ship pretty quick.

Never was on that ship.

By the way I think you are wrong when you say they were baptized into a local church and not into Jesus Christ, because Jesus is the head of the CHURCH, it his bride

You can think I am wrong. But again, look at the NT.

So with that being said, please explain to me if they were all baptized into the local church in Acts 2 how you can conclude that since Act 2:5 And dwelling at Jerusalem there were Jews, devout men out of every nation under heaven.

They were living in Jerusalem as v. 5 says.. What church do you think they were baptized into?

these people would be returning to there homes from all over the place.

Um, the text says they were living there. Will it be okay if I believe that instead of what you believe?

I conclude that conclusion because of the next verse Act 2:6 But this sound occurring, the multitude came together and were confounded, because they each heard them speaking in his own dialect. This plainly tells me that they were from all over the world because they spoke diffent languages.

But the text says they were living in Jerusalem. When people move to a new place to live, they don't forget their own language.

So maybe you need to reconclude what you think the bible is saying for what it really is saying. These people were added into Jesus Christ Church and not the local church as you think.

Or perhaps you should read what the Bible is actually saying.