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Baptist and Presbyterian Denominations.
- Thread starter Ben W
- Start date
One consideration for the Presbyterians is that in the States the title of the local meeting house was in the denomination's name not in the name of the local congregation. It's the same situation as American and Canadian Episcopalians are experiencing in 2004. Also, the Presby's are a confessional church. So, documents like the Westminister Confession govern their belief system. Add to that the Presby system of presbyteries, synods and general assemblies.
I think the Baptists are still ahead on that one.
U.S. Presbyterian groups include:
Presbyterian Church in the USA (2.4 million members)
Presbyterian Church in America (split from the PC-USA in 1973 and holds strictly to the Westminister Confession, about 300,000 members. It opposes ordination of women.)
Evangelical Presbyterian Church (formed by dissidents from the north and south prior to formation of the PC-USA; about 70,000 members; adheres to the Westminister Confession; ordination of women is not considered to be an area of essential doctrine.)
Orthodox Presbyterian Church (founded in 1936 by conservatives upset with doctrinal trends in the PC-USA foreign mission board; about 22,000 members; holds to the Westminster Confession as amended for American churches. It opposes ordination of women.)
Cumberland Presbyterian Church (founded as a result of the Cane Ridge revival that began the Stone-Campbell movements; about 83,000 members; rejects Westminister Confession and holds to unlimited atonement; it was among the first Presbyterian groups to ordain women.)
Bible Presbyterian Church (formed about the same time as the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, it has about 10,000 members; fundamental and anti-ecumenical, considers the PC-USA apostate; adheres to the Westminister Confession.)
Well, that's a few, at least.
U.S. Presbyterian groups include:
Presbyterian Church in the USA (2.4 million members)
Presbyterian Church in America (split from the PC-USA in 1973 and holds strictly to the Westminister Confession, about 300,000 members. It opposes ordination of women.)
Evangelical Presbyterian Church (formed by dissidents from the north and south prior to formation of the PC-USA; about 70,000 members; adheres to the Westminister Confession; ordination of women is not considered to be an area of essential doctrine.)
Orthodox Presbyterian Church (founded in 1936 by conservatives upset with doctrinal trends in the PC-USA foreign mission board; about 22,000 members; holds to the Westminster Confession as amended for American churches. It opposes ordination of women.)
Cumberland Presbyterian Church (founded as a result of the Cane Ridge revival that began the Stone-Campbell movements; about 83,000 members; rejects Westminister Confession and holds to unlimited atonement; it was among the first Presbyterian groups to ordain women.)
Bible Presbyterian Church (formed about the same time as the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, it has about 10,000 members; fundamental and anti-ecumenical, considers the PC-USA apostate; adheres to the Westminister Confession.)
Well, that's a few, at least.
I think that there are three Presbyterian Denominations in Australia, being Presbyterian, Reformed Prebyterian and one lot called the Bible Presbyterian Church.
I always thought thought that the Presbyterians were from the Reformed Movement, not neccessaraly the Protestant movement?
I always thought thought that the Presbyterians were from the Reformed Movement, not neccessaraly the Protestant movement?
DeclareHim
New Member
I'de have to agree Baptist lead the way as far as internal splits go. I've nevery heard of an Assembly of God church have a split; in my town anyway.
Pastor KevinR
New Member
The Oneness heresey split from them many years ago. Modern Showman T. D Jakes "Shakes" is one of 'em.
AVL1984
<img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>
I know here in our area, the PCA-USA is the dominant force having many churches. Cumberland Presby's are second, and then PCA's are last having only one church in our immediate area. My wife and I considered joining them, as I had attended a Presby church in Peoria Illinois under Dr. Bruce Dunn (Bapist Educated and an excellent pastor until the Lord called him home). I think though that Baptist have far more "sects" in them than the Presby's!
AVL1984
AVL1984
SaggyWoman
Active Member
Evangelical Presby's are alot like Baptists.
Debby in Philly
Active Member
That's true. Westminster Seminary is a big deal around here. But the Presbyterians still insist on sprinklin' babies, though.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
That's right. Kind of goes against being evangelical.
Daniel Dunivan
New Member
Sprinkling or immersion has absolutely no bearing on the label "evangelical." This simply means they aren't baptist.
Interestingly enough, General Baptists (General Association of General Baptists) have the Cumberland Presbyterians to thank for a completed move to Arminian theology.
Grace and Peace, Danny
Interestingly enough, General Baptists (General Association of General Baptists) have the Cumberland Presbyterians to thank for a completed move to Arminian theology.
Grace and Peace, Danny
Few can beat Dutch hypercalvinism when it comes to churchsplits.
The following is a reasonably complete list from 1961.
Remember that Calvinism in my country started out as the state church and that all denoms listed are the products of infighting. Also remember that my country has a tiny population compared to the USA.
De Nederlands Hervormde Kerk
De Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland
De Christelijk Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland
De Christelijke Gereformeerde Gemeenten
De Kruisgemeenten
De Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland en Noord-Amerika
De Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland
Oud-Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland
Oud-Gereformeerde Gemeenten
De Remonstrantse Broederschap
De Gereformeerd Vrijgemaakte Kerk
De Nederlandse Hervormde Zendingsgemeente te Doetinchem
De Nederduits Hervormde Beweging de Biltsche Kapel
De Vrije Hervormde Gemeente te Brummen
De Vrije Hervormde Gemeente te Kampen
De Vrije Evangelische Gereformeerde Gemeente tot verbreiding der Waarheide te Alkmaar
De Vrije Gerformeerde Kerk van Wolvega
De Nederduits Gereformeerde Gemeente te Oosterland
De Vrije Oud-Gereformeerde Gemeente te Oldebroek
De Vrije Oud-Gereformeerde Gemeente te Kampen
20 different denominations.
The following is a reasonably complete list from 1961.
Remember that Calvinism in my country started out as the state church and that all denoms listed are the products of infighting. Also remember that my country has a tiny population compared to the USA.
De Nederlands Hervormde Kerk
De Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland
De Christelijk Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland
De Christelijke Gereformeerde Gemeenten
De Kruisgemeenten
De Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland en Noord-Amerika
De Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland
Oud-Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland
Oud-Gereformeerde Gemeenten
De Remonstrantse Broederschap
De Gereformeerd Vrijgemaakte Kerk
De Nederlandse Hervormde Zendingsgemeente te Doetinchem
De Nederduits Hervormde Beweging de Biltsche Kapel
De Vrije Hervormde Gemeente te Brummen
De Vrije Hervormde Gemeente te Kampen
De Vrije Evangelische Gereformeerde Gemeente tot verbreiding der Waarheide te Alkmaar
De Vrije Gerformeerde Kerk van Wolvega
De Nederduits Gereformeerde Gemeente te Oosterland
De Vrije Oud-Gereformeerde Gemeente te Oldebroek
De Vrije Oud-Gereformeerde Gemeente te Kampen
20 different denominations.
Daniel Dunivan
New Member
mioque,
"Hervormde" translates as "reformed" (right?)?
What about "Gereformeerde"?
Grace and Peace, Danny
"Hervormde" translates as "reformed" (right?)?
What about "Gereformeerde"?
Grace and Peace, Danny
What are the differences then in the usages? I know in same situation in English useing two different words would be the result of different shades meaning.
Last spring, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in the Kingdom of the Netherlands, the Netherlands Reformed Church and Reformed Churches in the Netherlands merged into the Protestant Church in the Netherlands.
Faced with the merger, some Netherlands Reformed Church congregations formed the Restored Netherlands Reformed Church, while some former Reformed Churches in the Netherlands congregations have formed the Prolonged Reformed Churches in the Netherlands. (Great name, huh?)
Faced with the merger, some Netherlands Reformed Church congregations formed the Restored Netherlands Reformed Church, while some former Reformed Churches in the Netherlands congregations have formed the Prolonged Reformed Churches in the Netherlands. (Great name, huh?)
RSR, interestingly, the oldest protestant denomination in the US in continuous existence is the Reformed Church in America, which was originally founded as the Dutch Reformed Church (Founded in New Amsterdam in 1628). It was a branch of the Nederlands Hervormde Kerk (Reformed Church of the Netherlands). The first church, Marble Collegiate Church of 1628, is still in existence with an active congregation in downtown New York City.
The RCA has us Baptists beat in the US by several years.
The RCA has us Baptists beat in the US by several years.
Squire Robertsson
"What are the differences then in the usages?"
"
Gereformeerd has a more conservative sound than Hervormd.
In practice however the Hervormde Kerk was in recent years more conservative than the Gereformeerde Kerk.
Both of them were (with the exception of one branch of the Hervormde kerk) decidedly more liberal than the SBC.
On the other hand the most conservative Calvinist churches in my country make some of the most hardline IFB churches in the US look like lukewarm liberals.
"What are the differences then in the usages?"
"
Gereformeerd has a more conservative sound than Hervormd.
In practice however the Hervormde Kerk was in recent years more conservative than the Gereformeerde Kerk.
Both of them were (with the exception of one branch of the Hervormde kerk) decidedly more liberal than the SBC.
On the other hand the most conservative Calvinist churches in my country make some of the most hardline IFB churches in the US look like lukewarm liberals.
Interesting detail on the formation of the Protestant Church in the Netherlands. If the local churches involved in the merger had financial troubles, coming together turned out to be a piece of cake, even if the doctrinal situation looked ugly on paper. If not, great difficulty all around, even if the churches involved were doctrinally extremely close.