Baptist Called Calvinist?

[AAA]

Free willer aguements agian?

And you are a Christian because of what you believe, and not because of Christ who bought you and redeemed you ?

If you believe that you can earn your salvation by believing, by getting baptized, or any other good work then how can you be a born again saved by the blood of the lamb christian? Note: I said " If you believe........", not that you do believe you can earn it.

God saves people and that is how a person becomes a christian...Please read: Eph. 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, the whole books of GAL. and Romans.

What I do not understand about free willers is how they can try to mix grace along with thier good works and believe that GOD needs thier help in saving them. God is a soverighn GOD and HE will save anyone HE choses to by GRACE without any of thier good works being added to the shed blood of JESUS CHRIST.

If you would like to debate on this subject that will be fine. I am not a free willer as you seem to be.

My position...
Salvation is by GRACE.

Your position will be...
Salvation is not by GRACE and can be earned...

Do you accept?

May GOD bless you.

 

[pinoybaptist]

If you believe that you can earn your salvation by believing, by getting baptized, or any other good work then how can you be a born again saved by the blood of the lamb christian? Note: I said " If you believe........", not that you do believe you can earn it.

God saves pelople and that is how a person becomes a christian...Please read: Eph. 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, the whole books of GAL. and Romans.

What I do not understand about free willers is how they can try to mix grace along with thier good works and believe that GOD needs thier help in saving them. God is a soverighn GOD and HE will save anyone HE choses to by GRACE without any of thier good works being added to the shed blood of JESUS CHRIST.

If you would like to debate on this subject that will be fine. I am not a free willer as you seem to be.

My position...
Salvation is by GRACE.

Your position will be...
Salvation is not by GRACE and can be earned...

Do you accept?

May GOD bless you.

I don't understand where you're coming from.

First you attack the Calvinists, who are firm believers in the Sovereign grace of God, by saying "The calvinist camp divided.
If it is true that Calvin believed in baptism regeneration then calvinist has to admit that he was not a christian, because the bible clearly states that salvation is by GRACE and not through works (good works, the law, BAPTISM, belief and etc.)."

I ask you: are you a Christian because of what you believe ? Or because Christ redeemed you.

I don't care if all the angels in heaven testify that you believe salvation is by grace thru faith, the fact remains that your believeing so does not save you, and your not believing it is so, does not put you in the unsaved camp.

You are saved because God in heaven chose to be merciful to you, and His Son Jesus Christ chose to be your Savior, and go up that cross in your place, while you were yet a sinner and while you remain a sinner in your body of flesh and your carnal mind.

And in the same manner, I don't care if all the devil in hell stands up and accuses John Calvin of believing in baptismal regeneration, the fact remains that if he is a child of God by virtue of God's eternal mercies on him, and by virtue of the blood of the Lamb on the cross, then he is a child of God and none of his crooked beliefs can undo that fact for him, and none of your malice towards an already dead man and those who happen to think like him can undo the fact that no one is saved because of what he believes, but the one who is saved is saved because he had a Savior who saved him despite what he believes.

And, oh, by the way, I am not a free willer.

I am a firm adherent to the Doctrine of Grace.

 

[Sober_Baptist]

I don't know any so-called Calvinists who are John Calvinists.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Whatever happened to providing sources and therefore establishing credibility?

 

[AAA]

I don't understand where you're coming from.

From the biblical point of veiw of GRACE and that man can not earn his salvation.

First you attack the Calvinists, who are firm believers in the Sovereign grace of God, by saying "The calvinist camp divided".

I did not attack any calvinists and not all so-called calvinist affirm the doctrine of GRACE and we can't speek for all of them; and I do not believe all that calvinist teach , because people will tend to controdict people and calvinist are no different within thier own camp.

I said: "The calvinist camp divided", becuase I believe that the OP was geared to try to divid that camp. I was pointed out what I thought he was trying to do and yet you say that because I did this that I was "attacking' calvinist?

If it is true that Calvin believed in baptism regeneration then calvinist has to admit that he was not a christian, because the bible clearly states that salvation is by GRACE and not through works (good works, the law, BAPTISM, belief and etc.).

This is once agian where the OP was leading in it's logic....Read my reply from above this one.....I was NOT attacking calvinist by pointing out my opinion of the OP LOGIC and where it was leading to....

I ask you: are you a Christian because of what you believe ? Or because Christ redeemed you?

Salvation by GRACE is what HE did and NOT what I did, because I CAN'T earn my salvation in any way shape or form....Eph. 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, and the whole book of GAL. and Roman, and ETC.

I don't care if all the angels in heaven testify that you believe salvation is by grace thru faith, the fact remains that your believeing so does not save you, and your not believing it is so, does not put you in the unsaved camp.

Believing saves a person? If belief is the saviour then so my belief's blood that it shed for me....The saviour is NOT belief, it is GOD that saved by GRACE through Jesus and His shed blood by the Power of the Holy Spirit by which we are sealed until the day of redeemtion....GOD is our saviour....

Do you know what or WHO put a person in the saved camp? GOD by His GRACE through the shed blood of the LAMB...And those that are un-saved will be that because GOD has not saved them yet, or will not save them..... Salvaion is HIS doing NOT yours....Rom. 9:10-24...The doctrine of GRACE is very hard for people to understand, because they do not what to believe that GOD is a soverign GOD and they would like to believe that they are the god of thier lives, but the bible says there is ONLY ONE GOD and it is Him alone that is all-powerful..AMEN!

You are saved because God in heaven chose to be merciful to you, and His Son Jesus Christ chose to be your Savior, and go up that cross in your place, while you were yet a sinner and while you remain a sinner in your body of flesh and your carnal mind.

Now, great I believe that you are now seeing our (christains believing saved by GRACE and NOT by our works) point in GOD saves by GRACE and not our works...ROM 9:10-24...And we as christians has past from death unto life....BY the GRACE of GOD that was bought by the BLOOD of CHRIST!

And in the same manner, I don't care if all the devil in hell stands up and accuses John Calvin of believing in baptismal regeneration, the fact remains that if he is a child of God by virtue of God's eternal mercies on him, and by virtue of the blood of the Lamb on the cross, then he is a child of God and none of his crooked beliefs can undo that fact for him, and none of your malice towards an already dead man and those who happen to think like him can undo the fact that no one is saved because of what he believes, but the one who is saved is saved because he had a Savior who saved him despite what he believes.

"YOUR MALICE"....
What malice? I don't have any malice toward him, but I do not believe that all what he believe was the truth, because if he had all the truth then he would be GOD, and he is NOT God, neither are you or me... GOD has all the truth and we see as through a glass dimly.....

And, oh, by the way, I am not a free willer.

I am a firm adherent to the Doctrine of Grace.

Good, I am NOT a free willer either, and I always glad to see other people that believe in Salvation by GRACE of GOD, instead of thier own works in trying to earn thier salvation....

 

[Pastor Larry]

Baptists are sometimes called Calvinists becuase of their views on soteriology. They are also sometimes called Particular Baptists or Reformed Baptists. It has nothing to do with infant baptism.

 

[Xenos]

London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689

To which set of Baptist doctrines are you referring? The ones reflected in the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith? Or one of the more contemporary sets of doctrines that contradict the 1689 confession on some points (and therefore one or more must contradict the Bible)?

Do you see what I'm getting at?

By the way, the 1689 confession embraces Calvinist soteriology, although the name Calvin never appears in it.

London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 and you are right, it does not mention Calvin's name. That is the point that I am trying to get people to see. We do not have to use Calvin's name to establish what we believe because our doctrine is Bible doctrine.

 

[reformedbeliever]

London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 and you are right, it does not mention Calvin's name. That is the point that I am trying to get people to see. We do not have to use Calvin's name to establish what we believe because our doctrine is Bible doctrine.

Do you believe a man has to believe before he can be born again?

 

[webdog]

I don't know any so-called Calvinists who are John Calvinists.

Johnp's a calvinist, wouldn't that make him a "John calvinist"

 

[johnp.]

Hello Xenos.

Could you explain what your name means please and what you think of the doctrines of grace?

We do not have to use Calvin's name to establish what we believe because our doctrine is Bible doctrine.

We use scripture to establish our faith.


john a Calvinist.

 

[npetreley]

London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 and you are right, it does not mention Calvin's name. That is the point that I am trying to get people to see. We do not have to use Calvin's name to establish what we believe because our doctrine is Bible doctrine.

I see your point, but I think you missed mine. I happen to think that the London Baptist Confession of 1689 is an accurate representation of what the Bible says. I happen to believe that what people call Calvinism, as it is understood today, is also an accurate reflection of what the Bible says. "Calvinism" doesn't include anything about infant baptism. In fact, I'll bet if you did a poll, most people who have any idea at all what "Calvinism" is would probably be totally ignorant of what Calvin thought of infant baptism.

By the way, going only by personal experience, I don't think what most Baptist churches today teach is an accurate reflection of the 1689 confession or what the Bible says. If I thought "Baptist" had to mean what most Baptist churches teach today, I would continue to call myself a Calvinist but leave the Baptist church. Kind of ironic, isn't it? Again, when I say "most" I mean most of those I've visited. That's just one data point, so I don't know if it's really true of most Baptist chuches.

 

[johnp.]

Why is it ok to call onself a Baptist but not a Calvinist? If Calvin believed in baptismal regeneration he would have become Pope. Since he didn't he didn't and since he didn't he isn't.

john.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

We do not have to use Calvin's name to establish what we believe because our doctrine is Bible doctrine.

Don't people on all sides of the issues claim their doctrine as "Bible doctrine"?
I don't see how that helps people identify what they believe without point-by-point going through the issues every time.

 

[skypair]

Let me...

...propose a solution to the 5 pointers regarding the 3 and 4 and the "sometimes" Calvinists. Do what the Mormons do --- call the "Jack Calvinists!!" :laugh:

Mormons who don't strictly adhere to Mormonism are called "Jack Mormons" (don't ask me why -- I don't know).

skypair

 

[Xenos]

Believe to be born again!

Do you believe a man has to believe before he can be born again?

Romans 3:20-26 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: (23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

The sinner is quickened to believe in Jesus. This faith to believe is a gift of God.

 

[Xenos]

Hello Xenos.

Could you explain what your name means please and what you think of the doctrines of grace?

Xenos means one that is a host of strangers or guest.

 

[Xenos]

Why is it ok to call onself a Baptist but not a Calvinist? If Calvin believed in baptismal regeneration he would have become Pope. Since he didn't he didn't and since he didn't he isn't.

john.

Calvin a POPE?????????? I am not sure your statement bears any truth. How can you say "he would have become Pope?" This does NOT make any sense to me.

Are you trying to say he did NOT believe in regerational baptism? If you are, then you are wrong.

 

[johnp.]

Are you trying to say he did NOT believe in regerational baptism? If you are, then you are wrong.

He was bright enough to rise to the top of any organisation was he not?
He believed that the children of the children of God are saved from the womb and should receive baptism as an inclusion into the family of God as baptism replace circumcision. Regeneration precedes baptism and regeneration is automatic from the womb. That's what I know about him.

Xenos means one that is a host of strangers or guest.

Is it Greek?

john.

 

[skypair]

One thing...

...I can say for johnp -- he's no "Jack Calvinist!" :laugh:

skypair

 

[Xenos]

He was bright enough to rise to the top of any organisation was he not?
He believed that the children of the children of God are saved from the womb and should receive baptism as an inclusion into the family of God as baptism replace circumcision. Regeneration precedes baptism and regeneration is automatic from the womb. That's what I know about him.

I gather from your comments that Faith and Repentance need not to be taught. The teaching that baptism replaces circumcision is not Scriptural. Being a founder of a large organization does not make one right.

Why not just stay in the Catholic church if you are going to teach their doctrine? John Calvin should have stayed with the Catholics with his teachings.

Don't mess up the Baptist churches with such false teaching.

Xenos is Greek.