I know this is not quite what you are looking for, but it provides a lot of information, and gives the names of many that Baptists would consider as part of their heritage before the Reformation.
http://www.reformedreader.org/history/cramp/toc.htm
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http://www.reformedreader.org/history/cramp/toc.htm
Dual:
In all matters of faith one must render complete obedience. Mat. 7:21. The rich ruler of Mat. 19 lacked ONE THING. Mat. 19:16-22.
This young rule was a moral man. 19-20.
He was respectful to his parents. vs.19.
He was an honest man.17.
He was respected in his community. Vs. 19.
However, there was one thing he lacked. He needed to remove the coveteousness in his heart. vs. 21. He refused to do the one thing he needed to get into the Kingdom of heaven. He went away sorrowful vs. 22.
In all matters of faith one must render complete obedience. Mat. 7:21. The rich ruler of Mat. 19 lacked ONE THING. Mat. 19:16-22.
This young rule was a moral man. 19-20.
He was respectful to his parents. vs.19.
He was an honest man.17.
He was respected in his community. Vs. 19.
However, there was one thing he lacked. He needed to remove the coveteousness in his heart. vs. 21. He refused to do the one thing he needed to get into the Kingdom of heaven. He went away sorrowful vs. 22.
Gal.3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
"In all matters of faith one must render ‘complete' obedience.
If this is true, Frank, there is no possibility of you ever entering Heaven. It is impossible to keep the law. It is impossible to completely obey the laws of Jesus 100% all the time.
Gal.3:10 teaches that if we fail to keep the law but one time in our life, we are cursed. We may, for example (if this were even possible) keep the whole law perfectly all of our lives, except just for one time when we lied. That one lie out of 80 years of perfection brings one under the curse of the law and condemns him for all eternity. "Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in book of the law to do them." But the fact is Frank, you sin every day; not just once in your lifetime-- but every day. You don't even measure up to your own standards much less the standards that Christ has set for you. Let us just two of Christ's commands:
Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."
Do you keep this command of Jesus every minute of every day? Do you really love the Lord your God with all of your heart all of the time? Is it possible for anyone to do this? If it were, we would all be sinless, wouldn't we??
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
Do you? Do you love your neighbor as yourself? Who is your neighbor? That was the question asked in Luke, and Jesus responded with the parable of the good Samaritan. All who you meet is your neighbor. All that you have a responsibility to is your neighbor. When Jesus said to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature, he in essence made the world your neighbor. Do you love those in Africa, Asia, South America, as yourself? Are you willing to go to Islamic countries like the Sudan and Pakistan to win those people to Christ? They are your neighbors too. Love your neighbors as yourself. In the light of the Great Commission, what are you doing for your neighbors? Do you really love them as yourself, or is it all just words. Here is another command to think of:
1John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
DHK
DHK:
You said,"Gal.3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
"In all matters of faith one must render ‘complete' obedience.
If this is true, Frank, there is no possibility of you ever entering Heaven. It is impossible to keep the law. It is impossible to completely obey the laws of Jesus 100% all the time.
Gal.3:10 teaches that if we fail to keep the law but one time in our life, we are cursed. We may, for example (if this were even possible) keep the whole law perfectly all of our lives, except just for one time when we lied. That one lie out of 80 years of perfection brings one under the curse of the law and condemns him for all eternity. "Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in book of the law to do them." But the fact is Frank, you sin every day; not just once in your lifetime-- but every day. You don't even measure up to your own standards much less the standards that Christ has set for you. Let us just two of Christ's commands:
Answer: My faith is in Christ, ot in the Old testament law. You continue to quote scripture that refers to the old law. The old law was abolished as a system and was superceded byth e law of faith. Gal. 3:34-29. TheBbile still requires obedinece in all matters of faith, NOT PERFECTION. I John 1:7 requires I walk in the Light ,not the darkness. If one does this , he can have faith in Christ and his blood to cleanse him as he does walk in the light.
Your statement that I sin everyday is well a foolish and unsubstantiated opinion by one who cannot rightly divide the word of truth.
You are not with me everyday and do not know what I thik or do each day, Why if you were, that would make you well I am not going there.
God does not require perfection but faithfulness.
You said,"Gal.3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
"In all matters of faith one must render ‘complete' obedience.
If this is true, Frank, there is no possibility of you ever entering Heaven. It is impossible to keep the law. It is impossible to completely obey the laws of Jesus 100% all the time.
Gal.3:10 teaches that if we fail to keep the law but one time in our life, we are cursed. We may, for example (if this were even possible) keep the whole law perfectly all of our lives, except just for one time when we lied. That one lie out of 80 years of perfection brings one under the curse of the law and condemns him for all eternity. "Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in book of the law to do them." But the fact is Frank, you sin every day; not just once in your lifetime-- but every day. You don't even measure up to your own standards much less the standards that Christ has set for you. Let us just two of Christ's commands:
Answer: My faith is in Christ, ot in the Old testament law. You continue to quote scripture that refers to the old law. The old law was abolished as a system and was superceded byth e law of faith. Gal. 3:34-29. TheBbile still requires obedinece in all matters of faith, NOT PERFECTION. I John 1:7 requires I walk in the Light ,not the darkness. If one does this , he can have faith in Christ and his blood to cleanse him as he does walk in the light.
Your statement that I sin everyday is well a foolish and unsubstantiated opinion by one who cannot rightly divide the word of truth.
You are not with me everyday and do not know what I thik or do each day, Why if you were, that would make you well I am not going there.
God does not require perfection but faithfulness.
Dualhunter
New Member
Your faith is not in Christ, it is in yourself.
I challenge you to reconsider your claim that the commandments which Jesus said were the most important and summery of the Law to not apply to believers in Christ.
Do you think that somebody can have faith in Christ if they hate God? Do you think somebody can be a follower of Christ if that person hates his neighbor?
"If one does this , he can have faith in Christ and his blood to cleanse him as he does walk in the light."
According to you obedience precedes faith, the Bible says otherwise for the obedience required for salvation is to trust in Christ not in one's own attempted obedience:
29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is (40) the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He (41) has sent." - John 6:29 NASB
4 Now to the one who (4) works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5 But to the one who does not work, but (5) believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, - Romans 4:4-5 NASB
If you really were obedient enough, salvation would be your due, not a gift. Your only hope is to trust in Him who justifies the ungodly (Christ came to save sinners not the righteous) and have your trust in Him credited as righteousness.
23 for all (37) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift (38) by His grace through (39) the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25 whom God displayed publicly as (40) a propitiation (41) in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the (42) forbearance of God He (43) passed over the sins previously committed;
26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where then is (44) boasting? It is excluded. By (45) what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. - Romans 3:23-27 NASB
I challenge you to reconsider your claim that the commandments which Jesus said were the most important and summery of the Law to not apply to believers in Christ.
Do you think that somebody can have faith in Christ if they hate God? Do you think somebody can be a follower of Christ if that person hates his neighbor?
"If one does this , he can have faith in Christ and his blood to cleanse him as he does walk in the light."
According to you obedience precedes faith, the Bible says otherwise for the obedience required for salvation is to trust in Christ not in one's own attempted obedience:
29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is (40) the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He (41) has sent." - John 6:29 NASB
4 Now to the one who (4) works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5 But to the one who does not work, but (5) believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, - Romans 4:4-5 NASB
If you really were obedient enough, salvation would be your due, not a gift. Your only hope is to trust in Him who justifies the ungodly (Christ came to save sinners not the righteous) and have your trust in Him credited as righteousness.
23 for all (37) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift (38) by His grace through (39) the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25 whom God displayed publicly as (40) a propitiation (41) in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the (42) forbearance of God He (43) passed over the sins previously committed;
26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where then is (44) boasting? It is excluded. By (45) what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. - Romans 3:23-27 NASB
Dual:
You said," Your faith is not in Christ, it is in yourself.
I challenge you to reconsider your claim that the commandments which Jesus said were the most important and summery of the Law to not apply to believers in Christ.
Do you think that somebody can have faith in Christ if they hate God? Do you think somebody can be a follower of Christ if that person hates his neighbor?
"If one does this , he can have faith in Christ and his blood to cleanse him as he does walk in the light."
According to you obedience precedes faith, the Bible says otherwise for the obedience required for salvation is to trust in Christ not in one's own attempted obedience:
29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is (40) the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He (41) has sent." - John 6:29 NASB
4 Now to the one who (4) works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5 But to the one who does not work, but (5) believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, - Romans 4:4-5 NASB
If you really were obedient enough, salvation would be your due, not a gift. Your only hope is to trust in Him who justifies the ungodly (Christ came to save sinners not the righteous) and have your trust in Him credited as righteousness.
23 for all (37) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift (38) by His grace through (39) the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25 whom God displayed publicly as (40) a propitiation (41) in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the (42) forbearance of God He (43) passed over the sins previously committed;
26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where then is (44) boasting? It is excluded. By (45) what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. - Romans 3:23-27 NASB
Answer:
My faith is In Christ. Eph.3:12. Your claim to the contrary is unsubstantiated opinion. My confidence and boldness is in him.
Answer: I believe the New Testament. Jesus commands one to love his neighbor and brother. However, it is a system of faith not law keeping as per the Old Testament. You prove this point in your own post. See Romans 3:27. The Old Law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith, but when that faith is come we are no longer under a school master. Gal. 3:24-29. It is an obedient active faith that justifies, not works of merit. James 2:21-26, Gen. 22:1-17. Hebrews 11. This is the case with faith in ALL EXAMPLES OF JUSTIFICATION!. NO EXCEPTIONS! In each and every case, those justifiied trusted God for their justification by placing their faith in his word as he directed them.
You are like many calvinists. You know only one kind of works. Those works are always meritorious in your eyes. However, the Bible teaches there are other types of work.
1.Gal. 3: 11. Works of the Law.
2.Titus 3:5 Works of Righteousness.
3.John 6: 28,29. Works of God.
4.Gal. 5:19-21. Works of the flesh.
5.Romans 16:26, Hebrews 11:6. Works of an obedient active faith. James 2:21-24.
Finally, I never said or implied obedience comes before faith. God connects Biblical faith with obedience. Mk. 16:16, John 6: 28,29, John 3:36, Mat. 7:21-24. Faith is based upon evidence. John 20:30,31, Hebrews 11:1 and always acts based upon evidence. Hebs. 11:6. You advocate a dead faith. James 2:17-19.
Yes, Christ is man's only hope, not calvin. Christ's way is the narrow way of an obedient active faith. Mat. 25: 22-26. Hebrews 5:8,9.
Yes, man is justified by the blood of Christ. Romans 5: 8-10. Yes, we are made righteous by his blood. That is not the question! The Question is W-H-E-N? I believe my post answers this question. See Gal. 3:26-29.
Of course, your system want let you have the narrow way. And, you had rather have your false doctrine than the simplicty in Christ.
You said," Your faith is not in Christ, it is in yourself.
I challenge you to reconsider your claim that the commandments which Jesus said were the most important and summery of the Law to not apply to believers in Christ.
Do you think that somebody can have faith in Christ if they hate God? Do you think somebody can be a follower of Christ if that person hates his neighbor?
"If one does this , he can have faith in Christ and his blood to cleanse him as he does walk in the light."
According to you obedience precedes faith, the Bible says otherwise for the obedience required for salvation is to trust in Christ not in one's own attempted obedience:
29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is (40) the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He (41) has sent." - John 6:29 NASB
4 Now to the one who (4) works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5 But to the one who does not work, but (5) believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, - Romans 4:4-5 NASB
If you really were obedient enough, salvation would be your due, not a gift. Your only hope is to trust in Him who justifies the ungodly (Christ came to save sinners not the righteous) and have your trust in Him credited as righteousness.
23 for all (37) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift (38) by His grace through (39) the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25 whom God displayed publicly as (40) a propitiation (41) in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the (42) forbearance of God He (43) passed over the sins previously committed;
26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where then is (44) boasting? It is excluded. By (45) what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. - Romans 3:23-27 NASB
Answer:
My faith is In Christ. Eph.3:12. Your claim to the contrary is unsubstantiated opinion. My confidence and boldness is in him.
Answer: I believe the New Testament. Jesus commands one to love his neighbor and brother. However, it is a system of faith not law keeping as per the Old Testament. You prove this point in your own post. See Romans 3:27. The Old Law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith, but when that faith is come we are no longer under a school master. Gal. 3:24-29. It is an obedient active faith that justifies, not works of merit. James 2:21-26, Gen. 22:1-17. Hebrews 11. This is the case with faith in ALL EXAMPLES OF JUSTIFICATION!. NO EXCEPTIONS! In each and every case, those justifiied trusted God for their justification by placing their faith in his word as he directed them.
You are like many calvinists. You know only one kind of works. Those works are always meritorious in your eyes. However, the Bible teaches there are other types of work.
1.Gal. 3: 11. Works of the Law.
2.Titus 3:5 Works of Righteousness.
3.John 6: 28,29. Works of God.
4.Gal. 5:19-21. Works of the flesh.
5.Romans 16:26, Hebrews 11:6. Works of an obedient active faith. James 2:21-24.
Finally, I never said or implied obedience comes before faith. God connects Biblical faith with obedience. Mk. 16:16, John 6: 28,29, John 3:36, Mat. 7:21-24. Faith is based upon evidence. John 20:30,31, Hebrews 11:1 and always acts based upon evidence. Hebs. 11:6. You advocate a dead faith. James 2:17-19.
Yes, Christ is man's only hope, not calvin. Christ's way is the narrow way of an obedient active faith. Mat. 25: 22-26. Hebrews 5:8,9.
Yes, man is justified by the blood of Christ. Romans 5: 8-10. Yes, we are made righteous by his blood. That is not the question! The Question is W-H-E-N? I believe my post answers this question. See Gal. 3:26-29.
Of course, your system want let you have the narrow way. And, you had rather have your false doctrine than the simplicty in Christ.
Dualhunter
New Member
How to quote:
Method #1: go to the post you want to quote and press the reply with quote button (icon that has a dialog bubble overlapping a page with text and the word quote beside it.
Method #2: Surround the text you wish to quote with [QUOTE!]orignally posted by whoever goes here:[QB!]text goes here and the tags don't have a !, just using ! so that you can see the tags [/QB!][/QUOTE!]
You don't seem to understand what merit is. If the reward is conditioned on what a person does, the reward is merited on what a person does. If salvation is conditioned on the works of a person, for the sake of argument lets consider only works of an obedient active faith, then salvation is merited on the works of an obedient active faith of the person that does them. Your view of salvation is purely merit based and not grace based.
You are the one advocating a dead faith because the faith you advocate never produces life. Instead you agree with a list of statements claiming that doing so is faith, when such action is doing only with the mind and not with the heart. You then seek to add works to it so that you can justify to yourself your dead faith claiming that your effort makes your faith alive. You constantly have to maintain your works so that you can convince yourself that your claimed faith is alive. You speak of evidence yet you have never told us the evidence that your faith is alive.
17 Therefore if anyone is (25) in Christ, he is (26) a new creature; (27) the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. - 2 Corinthians 5:17
You say that when you came out of the water, you were a new creature and yet you have no evidence of being a new creature. You continue to depend on your attempts at obedience instead of depending wholely on the mercy and grace of God. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit fundamentally changes a persons life. Believers obey Christ because they trust in Him who alone is Savior and have received the gift of the Holy Spirit who regenerates the believer giving life that shows.
38 "He who believes in Me, (56) as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of (57) living water.'"
39 But this He spoke (58) of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for (59) the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet (60) glorified. - John 7:38-39 NASB
26 "Moreover, I will give you a (39) new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the (40) heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 "I will (41) put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. - Ezekiel 36:26-27 NASB
Call out to God with all your heart and trust in Him alone, not in your attempted obedience.
9 that (12) if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and (13) believe in your heart that (14) God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. - Romans 10:9-10 NASB
Salvation is not conditioned on works for good works follow salvation and so something which results from salvation cannot be a condition for it, otherwise not one person who be saved for we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, we require salvation before we become able to obey (Ezekiel 36:37; Ephesians 2:10). Stop putting the cart before the horse and trust in Christ alone, not "Christ plus your own effort" which is a denial that God alone is Savior.
8 For (1) by grace you have been saved (2) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (3) the gift of God;
9 (4) not as a result of works, so that (5) no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, (6) created in (7) Christ Jesus for (8) good works, which God (9) prepared beforehand so that we would (10) walk in them.
Method #1: go to the post you want to quote and press the reply with quote button (icon that has a dialog bubble overlapping a page with text and the word quote beside it.
Method #2: Surround the text you wish to quote with [QUOTE!]orignally posted by whoever goes here:[QB!]text goes here and the tags don't have a !, just using ! so that you can see the tags [/QB!][/QUOTE!]
You don't seem to understand what merit is. If the reward is conditioned on what a person does, the reward is merited on what a person does. If salvation is conditioned on the works of a person, for the sake of argument lets consider only works of an obedient active faith, then salvation is merited on the works of an obedient active faith of the person that does them. Your view of salvation is purely merit based and not grace based.
You are the one advocating a dead faith because the faith you advocate never produces life. Instead you agree with a list of statements claiming that doing so is faith, when such action is doing only with the mind and not with the heart. You then seek to add works to it so that you can justify to yourself your dead faith claiming that your effort makes your faith alive. You constantly have to maintain your works so that you can convince yourself that your claimed faith is alive. You speak of evidence yet you have never told us the evidence that your faith is alive.
17 Therefore if anyone is (25) in Christ, he is (26) a new creature; (27) the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. - 2 Corinthians 5:17
You say that when you came out of the water, you were a new creature and yet you have no evidence of being a new creature. You continue to depend on your attempts at obedience instead of depending wholely on the mercy and grace of God. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit fundamentally changes a persons life. Believers obey Christ because they trust in Him who alone is Savior and have received the gift of the Holy Spirit who regenerates the believer giving life that shows.
38 "He who believes in Me, (56) as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of (57) living water.'"
39 But this He spoke (58) of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for (59) the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet (60) glorified. - John 7:38-39 NASB
26 "Moreover, I will give you a (39) new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the (40) heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 "I will (41) put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. - Ezekiel 36:26-27 NASB
Call out to God with all your heart and trust in Him alone, not in your attempted obedience.
9 that (12) if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and (13) believe in your heart that (14) God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. - Romans 10:9-10 NASB
Salvation is not conditioned on works for good works follow salvation and so something which results from salvation cannot be a condition for it, otherwise not one person who be saved for we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, we require salvation before we become able to obey (Ezekiel 36:37; Ephesians 2:10). Stop putting the cart before the horse and trust in Christ alone, not "Christ plus your own effort" which is a denial that God alone is Savior.
8 For (1) by grace you have been saved (2) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (3) the gift of God;
9 (4) not as a result of works, so that (5) no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, (6) created in (7) Christ Jesus for (8) good works, which God (9) prepared beforehand so that we would (10) walk in them.
Dual:
You said, "You don't seem to understand what merit is. If the reward is conditioned on what a person does, the reward is merited on what a person does. If salvation is conditioned on the works of a person, for the sake of argument lets consider only works of an obedient active faith, then salvation is merited on the works of an obedient active faith of the person that does them. Your view of salvation is purely merit based and not grace based."
Answer: Your statement is unsubstantiated and unsupported by the divine evidence previously posted. As I said, You only know one kind of works and those are works of merit. The Bible teaches there are other types. See previous post!
I believe in Biblical faith, Hebrews 11:6, James 2:21-26.
Your statement about what works of merit are and are not is simply your opinion. You can search the scriptures today, tomorrow and for a thousand years and you will not find your definition in the scriptures.
You seem to follow the same pattern of apologetics. One,ignore the totality of the harmonious evidence. Two, array scripture against scripture.
Finally, in order to know the truth use the following:
1. Search the totaltity of the harmonious evidence.
2. Make only those conclusions as are warranted by the evidence.
This may be done by accepting declarative statements from the scriptures, accepting approved examples, or making implications based on all the scriptures.
This is the only way language works.
You said, "You don't seem to understand what merit is. If the reward is conditioned on what a person does, the reward is merited on what a person does. If salvation is conditioned on the works of a person, for the sake of argument lets consider only works of an obedient active faith, then salvation is merited on the works of an obedient active faith of the person that does them. Your view of salvation is purely merit based and not grace based."
Answer: Your statement is unsubstantiated and unsupported by the divine evidence previously posted. As I said, You only know one kind of works and those are works of merit. The Bible teaches there are other types. See previous post!
I believe in Biblical faith, Hebrews 11:6, James 2:21-26.
Your statement about what works of merit are and are not is simply your opinion. You can search the scriptures today, tomorrow and for a thousand years and you will not find your definition in the scriptures.
You seem to follow the same pattern of apologetics. One,ignore the totality of the harmonious evidence. Two, array scripture against scripture.
Finally, in order to know the truth use the following:
1. Search the totaltity of the harmonious evidence.
2. Make only those conclusions as are warranted by the evidence.
This may be done by accepting declarative statements from the scriptures, accepting approved examples, or making implications based on all the scriptures.
This is the only way language works.
Dualhunter
New Member
4 Now to the one who (4) works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5 But to the one who does not work, but (5) believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, - Romans 4:4-5 NASB
This is not my definition of merit, it is the Bible's. Verse 4 defines merit in contrast to grace. Your attempts to add to Scripture are unsubstaniated. It says "to the one who works, his wage is not credited as favor, but as what is due", it does not say "to the one who [insert type of works here], his wage is not credited as favor, but as what is due". The verse clearly shows that if a person were saved because of what they did, they would be saved by merit not by grace. You are not harmonizing Scripture but simple ignoring it in favor of reading your corrupt theology into it.
Salvation is not conditioned on works for good works follow salvation and so something which results from salvation cannot be a condition for it, otherwise not one person who be saved for we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, we require salvation before we become able to obey (Ezekiel 36:37; Ephesians 2:10). Stop putting the cart before the horse and trust in Christ alone, not "Christ plus your own effort" which is a denial that God alone is Savior.
8 For (1) by grace you have been saved (2) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (3) the gift of God;
9 (4) not as a result of works, so that (5) no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, (6) created in (7) Christ Jesus for (8) good works, which God (9) prepared beforehand so that we would (10) walk in them.
5 But to the one who does not work, but (5) believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, - Romans 4:4-5 NASB
This is not my definition of merit, it is the Bible's. Verse 4 defines merit in contrast to grace. Your attempts to add to Scripture are unsubstaniated. It says "to the one who works, his wage is not credited as favor, but as what is due", it does not say "to the one who [insert type of works here], his wage is not credited as favor, but as what is due". The verse clearly shows that if a person were saved because of what they did, they would be saved by merit not by grace. You are not harmonizing Scripture but simple ignoring it in favor of reading your corrupt theology into it.
Salvation is not conditioned on works for good works follow salvation and so something which results from salvation cannot be a condition for it, otherwise not one person who be saved for we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, we require salvation before we become able to obey (Ezekiel 36:37; Ephesians 2:10). Stop putting the cart before the horse and trust in Christ alone, not "Christ plus your own effort" which is a denial that God alone is Savior.
8 For (1) by grace you have been saved (2) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (3) the gift of God;
9 (4) not as a result of works, so that (5) no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, (6) created in (7) Christ Jesus for (8) good works, which God (9) prepared beforehand so that we would (10) walk in them.
Dual:
Romans 4:1,2.1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God." The discussion is obviously about meritorious works. How many times do I have to list the different types of works that are NOT WORKS OF MERIT OF WHICH IS FAITH. Paul did not teach this any more than James did. Abraham was justified not by merit but by an active faith. James 2:21-24. Paul wrote Gal 3: 24-29. The Bible says in that book,24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Paul wrote Romans 5: 1,2, which says,"1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 4:3.3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." How did ABraham believe. In Gen. 12: 1-4. He obeyed and left his home land. The writer of Hebrews concludes in Hebrews 11:8,9, " 8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise. Again, he did what God told him whenGod told him and GOD Made him righteous.
Romans 4:4,5.4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Man is lost and cannot merit salvation. Eph. 2:8,9. If so,he could boast and instead of grace it would be a payment as a debt of works. Abraham did not earn or merit salvation. He was granted it be grace thorugh and active faith when he did what GOD told him to do,WHEN GOD told him to do it, And HOW God told him to do it. Gen. 22:1-17, Hebrews 11:18,19." 17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure." Again,salvation is by grace through faith. Eph 2:8,9. But, salvation is not by faith only! James 2:24.
Romans 4: 4,5 does not define grace as you do. Romasn 4: 4,5 excludes one meriting salvation by God paying a debt incurred by man's work. You exclude a working active faith. Paul does not! See Romans 5:1,2.
Read ALL the passages about Abraham. Every one of them teaches God bestowed his grace upon Abraham as he received by an active working faith. The Bible teaches this in Gen. 22:1-17;12:1-4,Hebs. 11:6-9,17-19.
You and a million like you can proclaim grace only and faith only today, tomorrow and a thousand years and the bible will still read Abraham was justiifed by his active faith in God when he did what God said, when he said to do it, and how he said to do it.
Tomorrow, when you read James 2:21 -24, it will still read Abraham was justified by a working active faith, not a meritorious work.
Grace does not eliminate conditions! Eph. 2:8,9.
Grace does not preclude reception of the gift. John 1:12,13
Grace does not prevent one from accepting it through and active faith which God requires as a CONDITION for receiving his grace of salvation. Romans 5:1,2, Hebrews 11:6.
ALL men in the Bible were justiifed by God's grace and the conditions he set forth for reception of the gift.
Rahab tied a scarlet thread on the outside of her window. Joshua 2:18. She was saved by grace through faith.
The children of Israel were spared by placing blood on the lintel of the door. Exodus 12:7- 13.They were saved by grace through faith.
The children of Israel were saved when God told Moses to place a brazen serpent on a pole, and for those who looked upon it, he would save them. Numbers 20:8-10. They were saved in the wilderness by grace through faith.
In each account, God offered his grace that saved. In each account, the reception of the grace was by an active working faith, not a meritorious work.
These examples are multiplied over and over in both the Old Testament and the New.
And, they will read that way on the day of judgement!
Romans 4:1,2.1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God." The discussion is obviously about meritorious works. How many times do I have to list the different types of works that are NOT WORKS OF MERIT OF WHICH IS FAITH. Paul did not teach this any more than James did. Abraham was justified not by merit but by an active faith. James 2:21-24. Paul wrote Gal 3: 24-29. The Bible says in that book,24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Paul wrote Romans 5: 1,2, which says,"1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 4:3.3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." How did ABraham believe. In Gen. 12: 1-4. He obeyed and left his home land. The writer of Hebrews concludes in Hebrews 11:8,9, " 8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise. Again, he did what God told him whenGod told him and GOD Made him righteous.
Romans 4:4,5.4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Man is lost and cannot merit salvation. Eph. 2:8,9. If so,he could boast and instead of grace it would be a payment as a debt of works. Abraham did not earn or merit salvation. He was granted it be grace thorugh and active faith when he did what GOD told him to do,WHEN GOD told him to do it, And HOW God told him to do it. Gen. 22:1-17, Hebrews 11:18,19." 17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure." Again,salvation is by grace through faith. Eph 2:8,9. But, salvation is not by faith only! James 2:24.
Romans 4: 4,5 does not define grace as you do. Romasn 4: 4,5 excludes one meriting salvation by God paying a debt incurred by man's work. You exclude a working active faith. Paul does not! See Romans 5:1,2.
Read ALL the passages about Abraham. Every one of them teaches God bestowed his grace upon Abraham as he received by an active working faith. The Bible teaches this in Gen. 22:1-17;12:1-4,Hebs. 11:6-9,17-19.
You and a million like you can proclaim grace only and faith only today, tomorrow and a thousand years and the bible will still read Abraham was justiifed by his active faith in God when he did what God said, when he said to do it, and how he said to do it.
Tomorrow, when you read James 2:21 -24, it will still read Abraham was justified by a working active faith, not a meritorious work.
Grace does not eliminate conditions! Eph. 2:8,9.
Grace does not preclude reception of the gift. John 1:12,13
Grace does not prevent one from accepting it through and active faith which God requires as a CONDITION for receiving his grace of salvation. Romans 5:1,2, Hebrews 11:6.
ALL men in the Bible were justiifed by God's grace and the conditions he set forth for reception of the gift.
Rahab tied a scarlet thread on the outside of her window. Joshua 2:18. She was saved by grace through faith.
The children of Israel were spared by placing blood on the lintel of the door. Exodus 12:7- 13.They were saved by grace through faith.
The children of Israel were saved when God told Moses to place a brazen serpent on a pole, and for those who looked upon it, he would save them. Numbers 20:8-10. They were saved in the wilderness by grace through faith.
In each account, God offered his grace that saved. In each account, the reception of the grace was by an active working faith, not a meritorious work.
These examples are multiplied over and over in both the Old Testament and the New.
And, they will read that way on the day of judgement!
Dualhunter
New Member
4 Now to the one who (4) works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5 But to the one who does not work, but (5) believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, - Romans 4:4-5 NASB
Stop trying to add to Scripture.
8 For (1) by grace you have been saved (2) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (3) the gift of God;
9 (4) not as a result of works, so that (5) no one may boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 NASB
Scripture says we are saved by grace through faith; and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works.
8 [For by grace you have been saved] through active working faith; and [that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God];
9 not as a result of works of the Law, works of righteousness, works of God, works of the flesh, so that no one may boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 Frank's bible (the stuff in [ ]'s doesn't work with your theology)
Notice the difference between what you say and what the Scripture actually says.
"Tomorrow, when you read James 2:21 -24, it will still read Abraham was justified by a working active faith, not a meritorious work."
Another example of how you add your theology to the text.
21 (39) Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22 You see that (40) faith was working with his works, and as a result of the (41) works, faith was perfected;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "(42) AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called (43) the friend of God.
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. - James 2:21-24 NASB
"Working active faith" is lacking from these verses. You ignore the context so that you can boast in your own effort to obey God and in doing so reject God as the only Savior.
Part 1:
The book of Romans is a book written to the church in Rome and it primarily deals with the issue of salvation. It deals with who justifies and how a person is justified. The book of James in contrast does not deal primarily with salvation but instead deals with practical matters of the faith, it refutes misconceptions about topics such as religion, faith and wisdom. It does not deal directly with core issue of the Gospel and thus should not be view as a manual on how to be saved.
Compare the hypothetical person James talks about with what Scripture says about one who believes in Christ:
14 (25) What use is it, (26) my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? - James 2:14 NASB
38 "He who believes in Me, (56) as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of (57) living water.'"
39 But this He spoke (58) of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for (59) the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet (60) glorified. - John 7:38-39 NASB
26 "Moreover, I will give you a (39) new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the (40) heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 "I will (41) put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. - Ezekiel 36:26-27 NASB
17 Therefore if anyone is (25) in Christ, he is (26) a new creature; (27) the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. - 2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB
The supposed believer in James 2:14 as not been changed, it does not sound like this person has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit because the evidence that Scripture mentions is not there. His supposed faith is dead not because he hasn't been a good Christian but because he never was a Christian to begin with. He was never alive in Christ as testified by the lack of change (as a result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit) in his life. He continued to be just as dead after claiming faith as he was before because he was never born again by the Spirit of God.
Part 2:
Works are evidence of faith, not a part of nor a cause of faith.
18 (30) But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your (31) faith without the works, and I will (32) show you my faith (33) by my works." - James 2:18 NASB
James does not say that is works play any part in his salvation but instead says that his works show his faith which is consistent with what the rest of Scripture says of one who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, that he is a new creature and thus not the same as he was prior to the indwelling of the Spirit within him.
Part 3:
The greater context of the book of James is not salvation as salvation is not the main theme of the book. The context of the second half of the second chapter deals with faith, not salvation directly.
21 (39) Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22 You see that (40) faith was working with his works, and as a result of the (41) works, faith was perfected;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "(42) AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called (43) the friend of God.
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. - James 2:21-24 NASB
Abrahams works showed his faith. A lack of works that are consistent with faith, suggests a lack of faith, hence the presence of such works testifies to the existence of faith. Abraham acted the way he did because he believe, his actions testify that he did have faith. Interestingly enough the word "obedience" is not mentioned nor does the passage say that had Abraham not been ready to sacrifice Isaac that he would not have been saved. As previously mentioned, the context of the passage is faith, not salvation, the passage is dealing with recognizing genuine faith not with maintaining a certain level of obedience for salvation. Abraham's works did not play a part in saving him, his works justified his faith (as a result of the works, faith was perfected) by testifying that Abraham genuinely believed God and was not simply pretending that to have faith.
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "(42) AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called (43) the friend of God. - James 2:23 NASB
James affirms what Paul says, it was Abraham's believing God that was reckoned as righteousness, not his works. His works testified that his faith was genuine but it was the faith that set him right in God's eyes and so it is by grace through faith, not by works that Abraham is saved and has a relationship with God.
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. - James 2:24 NASB
Works justify faith by testifying that professed faith is genuine. In the New Testament, Jesus and the Apostles testify to the life changing power of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as a result of genuine faith in Christ. The question you must ask yourself is are you a new creature, is the old passed away and the new come?
17 Therefore if anyone is (25) in Christ, he is (26) a new creature; (27) the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. - 2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB
Justification, that is being set right in the eyes of God regarding sin, is not a result of obedience, it is a gift of grace through which the mercy and love of God is shown.
23 for all (37) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift (38) by His grace through (39) the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25 whom God displayed publicly as (40) a propitiation (41) in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the (42) forbearance of God He (43) passed over the sins previously committed;
26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. - Romans 3:23-26 NASB
You must accept God's gift given by grace through faith to be justified before you can obey God in walking in those works which He has prepared before hand that you may walk in them. Once you have accepted the free gift rather than trying to earn it through obedience, you will be indwelt by the life giving and life changing Holy Spirit who will regenerate you, making you a new creature in Christ that you may declare your genuine faith by what you say and do in obedience to the Lord who has redeemed you entirely by Himself without your help.
8 For (1) by grace you have been saved (2) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (3) the gift of God;
9 (4) not as a result of works, so that (5) no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, (6) created in (7) Christ Jesus for (8) good works, which God (9) prepared beforehand so that we would (10) walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB
Who redeems Frank? You, you working with God or God alone? Will you accept the free gift of salvation and be made into a new creation?
5 But to the one who does not work, but (5) believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, - Romans 4:4-5 NASB
Stop trying to add to Scripture.
8 For (1) by grace you have been saved (2) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (3) the gift of God;
9 (4) not as a result of works, so that (5) no one may boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 NASB
Scripture says we are saved by grace through faith; and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works.
8 [For by grace you have been saved] through active working faith; and [that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God];
9 not as a result of works of the Law, works of righteousness, works of God, works of the flesh, so that no one may boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 Frank's bible (the stuff in [ ]'s doesn't work with your theology)
Notice the difference between what you say and what the Scripture actually says.
"Tomorrow, when you read James 2:21 -24, it will still read Abraham was justified by a working active faith, not a meritorious work."
Another example of how you add your theology to the text.
21 (39) Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22 You see that (40) faith was working with his works, and as a result of the (41) works, faith was perfected;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "(42) AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called (43) the friend of God.
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. - James 2:21-24 NASB
"Working active faith" is lacking from these verses. You ignore the context so that you can boast in your own effort to obey God and in doing so reject God as the only Savior.
Part 1:
The book of Romans is a book written to the church in Rome and it primarily deals with the issue of salvation. It deals with who justifies and how a person is justified. The book of James in contrast does not deal primarily with salvation but instead deals with practical matters of the faith, it refutes misconceptions about topics such as religion, faith and wisdom. It does not deal directly with core issue of the Gospel and thus should not be view as a manual on how to be saved.
Compare the hypothetical person James talks about with what Scripture says about one who believes in Christ:
14 (25) What use is it, (26) my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? - James 2:14 NASB
38 "He who believes in Me, (56) as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of (57) living water.'"
39 But this He spoke (58) of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for (59) the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet (60) glorified. - John 7:38-39 NASB
26 "Moreover, I will give you a (39) new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the (40) heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 "I will (41) put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. - Ezekiel 36:26-27 NASB
17 Therefore if anyone is (25) in Christ, he is (26) a new creature; (27) the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. - 2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB
The supposed believer in James 2:14 as not been changed, it does not sound like this person has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit because the evidence that Scripture mentions is not there. His supposed faith is dead not because he hasn't been a good Christian but because he never was a Christian to begin with. He was never alive in Christ as testified by the lack of change (as a result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit) in his life. He continued to be just as dead after claiming faith as he was before because he was never born again by the Spirit of God.
Part 2:
Works are evidence of faith, not a part of nor a cause of faith.
18 (30) But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your (31) faith without the works, and I will (32) show you my faith (33) by my works." - James 2:18 NASB
James does not say that is works play any part in his salvation but instead says that his works show his faith which is consistent with what the rest of Scripture says of one who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, that he is a new creature and thus not the same as he was prior to the indwelling of the Spirit within him.
Part 3:
The greater context of the book of James is not salvation as salvation is not the main theme of the book. The context of the second half of the second chapter deals with faith, not salvation directly.
21 (39) Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22 You see that (40) faith was working with his works, and as a result of the (41) works, faith was perfected;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "(42) AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called (43) the friend of God.
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. - James 2:21-24 NASB
Abrahams works showed his faith. A lack of works that are consistent with faith, suggests a lack of faith, hence the presence of such works testifies to the existence of faith. Abraham acted the way he did because he believe, his actions testify that he did have faith. Interestingly enough the word "obedience" is not mentioned nor does the passage say that had Abraham not been ready to sacrifice Isaac that he would not have been saved. As previously mentioned, the context of the passage is faith, not salvation, the passage is dealing with recognizing genuine faith not with maintaining a certain level of obedience for salvation. Abraham's works did not play a part in saving him, his works justified his faith (as a result of the works, faith was perfected) by testifying that Abraham genuinely believed God and was not simply pretending that to have faith.
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "(42) AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called (43) the friend of God. - James 2:23 NASB
James affirms what Paul says, it was Abraham's believing God that was reckoned as righteousness, not his works. His works testified that his faith was genuine but it was the faith that set him right in God's eyes and so it is by grace through faith, not by works that Abraham is saved and has a relationship with God.
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. - James 2:24 NASB
Works justify faith by testifying that professed faith is genuine. In the New Testament, Jesus and the Apostles testify to the life changing power of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as a result of genuine faith in Christ. The question you must ask yourself is are you a new creature, is the old passed away and the new come?
17 Therefore if anyone is (25) in Christ, he is (26) a new creature; (27) the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. - 2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB
Justification, that is being set right in the eyes of God regarding sin, is not a result of obedience, it is a gift of grace through which the mercy and love of God is shown.
23 for all (37) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift (38) by His grace through (39) the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25 whom God displayed publicly as (40) a propitiation (41) in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the (42) forbearance of God He (43) passed over the sins previously committed;
26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. - Romans 3:23-26 NASB
You must accept God's gift given by grace through faith to be justified before you can obey God in walking in those works which He has prepared before hand that you may walk in them. Once you have accepted the free gift rather than trying to earn it through obedience, you will be indwelt by the life giving and life changing Holy Spirit who will regenerate you, making you a new creature in Christ that you may declare your genuine faith by what you say and do in obedience to the Lord who has redeemed you entirely by Himself without your help.
8 For (1) by grace you have been saved (2) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (3) the gift of God;
9 (4) not as a result of works, so that (5) no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, (6) created in (7) Christ Jesus for (8) good works, which God (9) prepared beforehand so that we would (10) walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB
Who redeems Frank? You, you working with God or God alone? Will you accept the free gift of salvation and be made into a new creation?
Dual:
I have made INFERENCES and IMPLICATIONS based on the totality of the evidence. Eph. 2:8,9 is a discussion about works of merit ,not works of an active faith. They are different. The type faith that saves is one which places trust In Christ. Eph. 3:12. It is a faith that is active in receiving the grace that saves. The very scripture you post teaches this by grace, HOW? through faith. I will, once again, post the DIFFERENT TYPES OF WORKS. I know you will just ignore them, but that is your problem , not mine. Works of Righteousness. Titus 3:5. Works of the Law. Gal. 3:11, Works of the flesh. Gal. 5:19-21. Works of an obedient faith. Romans 16: 26, James 2:21-24, Hebrews 5:8,9, Romans 5:1,2. EVERY EXAMPLE OF SAVING FAITH IS ACTIVE! It it the CONDITION CHRIST set forth in John 8: 24. It, too,is a work John 6: 28,29.
Furthermore, OBEDIENCE IS A CONDITION for SALVATION. The Bible says so. Hebrews 5:9, he is the author of eternal salvation to all them that OBEY HIM. It does not say he is the author of eternal salvtion to all them that have faith only and do nothing! It just will not work that way! Again , that is your problem. see also II Thes. 1:6-9, John 3:36, Mat. 7;21-24, Mat. 25: 22-26.
Your contention James is not discussing Salvation is Hogwash! James 1:18-25. The very first chapter is a treatise on salvation. It says, "18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: 20For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. 21Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. 22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
The same could be said of the second chapter of James. In James 2: 14, the Bible says. "4What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"James answers the question in the same context in James 2: 21-26. It says,"1Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." Furthermore, James adresses the once saved always saved issue in James 5: 16-20. Three of the five chapters directly address salvation. Chapter 4 addresses salvation by contrast. James 4:1-4.
Interestingly, You ignored the Hebrew writer in regards to obedience, of course, if I were grace only and faith only, I would too! in Hebrews 11:8, the Bible says, By faith Abraham when he ws called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, OBEYED; and he went out not knowing whither he went. When was he justifed before he went out or after he obeyed. James says it was his obedient active working faith. James 2;21-24. The writer of the book of Hebrews agrees with James. God has NEVER granted salvation to the DISOBEDIENT! You INFER otherwise. However, the Bible teaches that the disobedient are lost. In Eph.5:6-8, the Bible says, " 6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the WRATH of God upon the children of DISOBEDIENCE 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:"
Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all them that obvey him. Hebrews 5:9.
In fact, those who do not OBEY the gospel will damned. IN II Thes. 1: 6-9,the Bible says, ": 6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"
Finally, men are saved by the grace of God when they receive his gift by the CONDITIONS GOD HAS SET FORTH IN THE SCRIPTURES. Jesus said a man must believe, John 8:24, Repent, Luke 13:3,Confess, Mat. 10:32, and be Baptized for unto the remission of sins, being washed in the blood of the lamb. Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Rev. 1:5, I Pet. 1:17,18, Romans 6: 3-6, Col. 2:12 This is God's grace that saves.
I have made INFERENCES and IMPLICATIONS based on the totality of the evidence. Eph. 2:8,9 is a discussion about works of merit ,not works of an active faith. They are different. The type faith that saves is one which places trust In Christ. Eph. 3:12. It is a faith that is active in receiving the grace that saves. The very scripture you post teaches this by grace, HOW? through faith. I will, once again, post the DIFFERENT TYPES OF WORKS. I know you will just ignore them, but that is your problem , not mine. Works of Righteousness. Titus 3:5. Works of the Law. Gal. 3:11, Works of the flesh. Gal. 5:19-21. Works of an obedient faith. Romans 16: 26, James 2:21-24, Hebrews 5:8,9, Romans 5:1,2. EVERY EXAMPLE OF SAVING FAITH IS ACTIVE! It it the CONDITION CHRIST set forth in John 8: 24. It, too,is a work John 6: 28,29.
Furthermore, OBEDIENCE IS A CONDITION for SALVATION. The Bible says so. Hebrews 5:9, he is the author of eternal salvation to all them that OBEY HIM. It does not say he is the author of eternal salvtion to all them that have faith only and do nothing! It just will not work that way! Again , that is your problem. see also II Thes. 1:6-9, John 3:36, Mat. 7;21-24, Mat. 25: 22-26.
Your contention James is not discussing Salvation is Hogwash! James 1:18-25. The very first chapter is a treatise on salvation. It says, "18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: 20For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. 21Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. 22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
The same could be said of the second chapter of James. In James 2: 14, the Bible says. "4What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"James answers the question in the same context in James 2: 21-26. It says,"1Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." Furthermore, James adresses the once saved always saved issue in James 5: 16-20. Three of the five chapters directly address salvation. Chapter 4 addresses salvation by contrast. James 4:1-4.
Interestingly, You ignored the Hebrew writer in regards to obedience, of course, if I were grace only and faith only, I would too! in Hebrews 11:8, the Bible says, By faith Abraham when he ws called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, OBEYED; and he went out not knowing whither he went. When was he justifed before he went out or after he obeyed. James says it was his obedient active working faith. James 2;21-24. The writer of the book of Hebrews agrees with James. God has NEVER granted salvation to the DISOBEDIENT! You INFER otherwise. However, the Bible teaches that the disobedient are lost. In Eph.5:6-8, the Bible says, " 6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the WRATH of God upon the children of DISOBEDIENCE 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:"
Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all them that obvey him. Hebrews 5:9.
In fact, those who do not OBEY the gospel will damned. IN II Thes. 1: 6-9,the Bible says, ": 6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"
Finally, men are saved by the grace of God when they receive his gift by the CONDITIONS GOD HAS SET FORTH IN THE SCRIPTURES. Jesus said a man must believe, John 8:24, Repent, Luke 13:3,Confess, Mat. 10:32, and be Baptized for unto the remission of sins, being washed in the blood of the lamb. Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Rev. 1:5, I Pet. 1:17,18, Romans 6: 3-6, Col. 2:12 This is God's grace that saves.
Carson Weber
<img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">
Who redeems Frank? You, you working with God or God alone? Will you accept the free gift of salvation and be made into a new creation?
Would not even acceptance of the gift constitute one working with God?
Dualhunter
New Member
You don't seem to know what the Gospel is Frank, how can you then obey it?
Carson, is a question of accepting the gift or trying to add to it which is denying your need for it.
Carson, is a question of accepting the gift or trying to add to it which is denying your need for it.
Dual:
The entire New Testament is the Gospel of Christ. It is authorized by him. It contains all he that is to be taught and practiced. Mat. 28:18-20.
Again, you use the same old apologetics. Arrray scripture against or ignore the totality the evidence. Every denominationaist does it!
If this does not work, just try and to attack them personally or tell them what they believe!( straw man).
It is rather sad that one who believes when one is with someone else they are alone! You claim one is saved by grace only-one, faith only- two, Christ only- three, Repentance- Four, Confession- Five.
One plus four is Five. They are not alone!
I say this kindly, You should enroll in a math class that teaches basic computation!
The entire New Testament is the Gospel of Christ. It is authorized by him. It contains all he that is to be taught and practiced. Mat. 28:18-20.
Again, you use the same old apologetics. Arrray scripture against or ignore the totality the evidence. Every denominationaist does it!
If this does not work, just try and to attack them personally or tell them what they believe!( straw man).
It is rather sad that one who believes when one is with someone else they are alone! You claim one is saved by grace only-one, faith only- two, Christ only- three, Repentance- Four, Confession- Five.
One plus four is Five. They are not alone!
I say this kindly, You should enroll in a math class that teaches basic computation!
Carson Weber
<img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">
Carson, is a question of accepting the gift or trying to add to it which is denying your need for it.
Perhaps you should consider that what you see as "additions" are actually the act of acceptance.
Perhaps you should consider that what you see as "additions" are actually the act of acceptance.
Carson:
I do not know why this is important to you. According to RC's one must go through the church for salvation. Who are you trusting?
Furthermore, I will give you a biblical answer, however, if the magisterium does not like it, you do not practice it, if you are a faithful Catholic.
Of course, my source is the Vatican Council II.
If I am wrong, and the RC church does not teach this, I will be corrected.
You asked," Who redeems Frank, you or you working with God or God alone? Will you accept of salvation and be made inot a new creation.
Answer: God redeems man through the blood of Christ by his grace that is accessed or received by our obedient active faith in the redemptive work of Christ. Eph. 1:7, Col. 1:14, Rev.1:5, Mk 14:24, John 1:12,13,Romans 5: 1,2, Gal. 3:26-29, James 2: 21-24, Eph. 3:12, Gal 2:16, Romans 3: 21- 27, Hebrews 11: 6-9, 17-19.
Answer: I am already a new creature. II Cor. 5:17. I am already IN Christ. II Tim. 2:10, Gal 3:24-29.
Carson, I would encourage you to do the following:
1. Give up the false teachings of the RC. Mat. 23:8,9, I Tim. 4: 1-4, I Tim. 3:1-11, II Tim. 4:1-4.
2. Submit to the authority of Christ. Mat. 28:18-20. No more no less.
3. Obey God's power to save. Romans 1;16;6:17,18, Hebrews 5:8,9, John3:36, II Thes 1:6-9.
Come now let us reason together,saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be like wool.
If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. Isaiah 1:18-20.
Finally, your question assumes a false premise.
Grace does NOT ELIMINATE CONDITIONS. Eph. 2:8,9.
If grace has no conditions,then, you have the faith that does not save. This is a dead faith. James 2:24-26, 17,21. My faith is a livng active faith in Christ. My boldness and confidence are in him. Eph. 3:12.
I realize this answer will not suffice for you since it is only the New Testament of Christ. However, it is, according to God all I need to make me complete spiritually. II Tim. 3:16,17.
That is where we are different, for you truth is pope,magisterium, uninspired history, and on good days, if you feel like reading it, the New Testament. Your problem is you cannot harmonize your teachings with the Bible. See previously posted references for false teachings of the RCC.
I do not know why this is important to you. According to RC's one must go through the church for salvation. Who are you trusting?
Furthermore, I will give you a biblical answer, however, if the magisterium does not like it, you do not practice it, if you are a faithful Catholic.
Of course, my source is the Vatican Council II.
If I am wrong, and the RC church does not teach this, I will be corrected.
You asked," Who redeems Frank, you or you working with God or God alone? Will you accept of salvation and be made inot a new creation.
Answer: God redeems man through the blood of Christ by his grace that is accessed or received by our obedient active faith in the redemptive work of Christ. Eph. 1:7, Col. 1:14, Rev.1:5, Mk 14:24, John 1:12,13,Romans 5: 1,2, Gal. 3:26-29, James 2: 21-24, Eph. 3:12, Gal 2:16, Romans 3: 21- 27, Hebrews 11: 6-9, 17-19.
Answer: I am already a new creature. II Cor. 5:17. I am already IN Christ. II Tim. 2:10, Gal 3:24-29.
Carson, I would encourage you to do the following:
1. Give up the false teachings of the RC. Mat. 23:8,9, I Tim. 4: 1-4, I Tim. 3:1-11, II Tim. 4:1-4.
2. Submit to the authority of Christ. Mat. 28:18-20. No more no less.
3. Obey God's power to save. Romans 1;16;6:17,18, Hebrews 5:8,9, John3:36, II Thes 1:6-9.
Come now let us reason together,saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be like wool.
If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. Isaiah 1:18-20.
Finally, your question assumes a false premise.
Grace does NOT ELIMINATE CONDITIONS. Eph. 2:8,9.
If grace has no conditions,then, you have the faith that does not save. This is a dead faith. James 2:24-26, 17,21. My faith is a livng active faith in Christ. My boldness and confidence are in him. Eph. 3:12.
I realize this answer will not suffice for you since it is only the New Testament of Christ. However, it is, according to God all I need to make me complete spiritually. II Tim. 3:16,17.
That is where we are different, for you truth is pope,magisterium, uninspired history, and on good days, if you feel like reading it, the New Testament. Your problem is you cannot harmonize your teachings with the Bible. See previously posted references for false teachings of the RCC.
Dualhunter
New Member
Grace is by nature unconditional. Acceptance is just that, acceptance, more specifically acceptance of what Christ has done, stop trying to add to it.
You're adding to the Gospel Frank, your gospel is not the same Gospel that Paul preached.
1 Now (1) I make known to you, brethren, the (2) gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, (3) in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, (4) if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, (5) unless you believed in vain.
3 For (6) I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died (7) for our sins (8) according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He was (9) raised on the third day (10) according to the Scriptures,
5 and that (11) He appeared to (12) Cephas, then (13) to the twelve. - 1 Corinthians 15:1-5 NASB
You're adding to the Gospel Frank, your gospel is not the same Gospel that Paul preached.
1 Now (1) I make known to you, brethren, the (2) gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, (3) in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, (4) if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, (5) unless you believed in vain.
3 For (6) I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died (7) for our sins (8) according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He was (9) raised on the third day (10) according to the Scriptures,
5 and that (11) He appeared to (12) Cephas, then (13) to the twelve. - 1 Corinthians 15:1-5 NASB
Dual:
You said,"Grace is by nature unconditional. Acceptance is just that, acceptance, more specifically acceptance of what Christ has done, stop trying to add to it.
You're adding to the Gospel Frank, your gospel is not the same Gospel that Paul preached.
1. Grace is by nature unconditional. No proof provided.
2.Acceptance is just that, acceptance, more specifically acceptance of what Christ has done, stop trying to add to it.
Answer: The Gift of Salvation MUST BE RECEIVED.
John 1:11-13. 11He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The reception of the gift of salvation is By the CONDITION OF FAITH. Hebrews 11:6-9.6But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. 7By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
8By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise.
Romans 16:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
Romans 6:17,18. But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Romans 6: 3-5.
Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection.
Gal. 3:26-29.6For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Hebrews 5:8,9. 8though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey him.
NO Man will get into heaven without obedience to the gospel of Christ. The Good Book says so!
II Thes. 1:6-9. 6since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
All quotations are from the inspired pen of Paul or by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
Finally, Your statement acceptance is just that is acceptance is redundant and not clarifiable by context or by implication of the text itself. Words have meaning. Repeating a word does not define it.
How does one accept? If accept means to accept as you say. Whatever the redundancy means!
The Bible teaches, and I posted the passages for the redemption In Christ. Eph. 1:7, Rev. 1:5, Eph. 3:12, Gal. 2:16.
I also posted the scriptures as to What I Must Do? Acts 2:37;16:30;9:6 to receive the gift.
Furthermore, The Bible says one must RECEIVE the implanted word which is able to save your souls. James 1:21. Jesus said, Not everyone that saith unto me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who doeth the will of the father which is in heaven. Mat. 7:21. Jesus way is the narrow way of faithful obedience. Mat. 7:13,14. Why call ye me Lord Lord and DO NOT the things I say. Luke 6:46.
Finally, the gospel I preach is the same as Paul preached. I quoted all of the references for the position affirmed. You do not like it, but you cannot REFUTE THE TRUTH.
On a not so lighter note, I am shocked you would accuse me of adding to the gospel, especially having proven you cannot add!
You claim it's grace only, faith only, repentance, confession, blood, and Christ only. I can read and count. one plus five equals six. I have not added anything to the gospel. How would you know anyway? You have already proven you cannot add or understand english words like only, alone, receive, and accept.
You said,"Grace is by nature unconditional. Acceptance is just that, acceptance, more specifically acceptance of what Christ has done, stop trying to add to it.
You're adding to the Gospel Frank, your gospel is not the same Gospel that Paul preached.
1. Grace is by nature unconditional. No proof provided.
2.Acceptance is just that, acceptance, more specifically acceptance of what Christ has done, stop trying to add to it.
Answer: The Gift of Salvation MUST BE RECEIVED.
John 1:11-13. 11He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The reception of the gift of salvation is By the CONDITION OF FAITH. Hebrews 11:6-9.6But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. 7By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
8By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise.
Romans 16:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
Romans 6:17,18. But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Romans 6: 3-5.
Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection.
Gal. 3:26-29.6For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Hebrews 5:8,9. 8though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey him.
NO Man will get into heaven without obedience to the gospel of Christ. The Good Book says so!
II Thes. 1:6-9. 6since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
All quotations are from the inspired pen of Paul or by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
Finally, Your statement acceptance is just that is acceptance is redundant and not clarifiable by context or by implication of the text itself. Words have meaning. Repeating a word does not define it.
How does one accept? If accept means to accept as you say. Whatever the redundancy means!
The Bible teaches, and I posted the passages for the redemption In Christ. Eph. 1:7, Rev. 1:5, Eph. 3:12, Gal. 2:16.
I also posted the scriptures as to What I Must Do? Acts 2:37;16:30;9:6 to receive the gift.
Furthermore, The Bible says one must RECEIVE the implanted word which is able to save your souls. James 1:21. Jesus said, Not everyone that saith unto me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who doeth the will of the father which is in heaven. Mat. 7:21. Jesus way is the narrow way of faithful obedience. Mat. 7:13,14. Why call ye me Lord Lord and DO NOT the things I say. Luke 6:46.
Finally, the gospel I preach is the same as Paul preached. I quoted all of the references for the position affirmed. You do not like it, but you cannot REFUTE THE TRUTH.
On a not so lighter note, I am shocked you would accuse me of adding to the gospel, especially having proven you cannot add!
You claim it's grace only, faith only, repentance, confession, blood, and Christ only. I can read and count. one plus five equals six. I have not added anything to the gospel. How would you know anyway? You have already proven you cannot add or understand english words like only, alone, receive, and accept.
Dualhunter
New Member
Frank, I posted the Gospel as defined by Paul, it did not include your many additions. You defined your gospel which is based on your flawed human logic by trying to put together verse and then saying that together they make up the Gospel. You took a bunch of verses and you claimed that you defined the Gospel, whereas as I quoted Paul's own definition from Scripture where the Holy Spirit through Paul defined the Gospel. The Bible never states that all the verses that you put together make up the Gospel, on the other hand the Bible does state that the verses I quoted refer to the Gospel which Paul preached and your definition does not match it.
Have you ever received a gift (on your birthday or for Christmas, etc) before Frank?
Have you ever received a gift (on your birthday or for Christmas, etc) before Frank?