Baptist Commentator

[Frank]

Dual:
1.The entire New Testament is the gospel of Christ. Mat. 28:18-20.This is what I answered to the question.

2. I Cor. 15:1-4 is not a definiton of the Gospel. Where does Paul imply such. He does say that which he preached a man must RECEIVE IT and stand in it to be saved. Of course,you do not believe this either. You believe in some vague redundant but unknown meaning of reception of it by reception or something to that effect. Whatever, acceptance means.

3. Let's examine the totality of the matter of the gospel that saves.

One, The same Paul ,who you say has defined it in I Cor. 15;1-4, states that the gospel is God's power to save to the Jew and also to the Greek. It is from faith unto faith as it is written the just shall live by faith. Romans 1:16,17. The CONDTION IS ACTIVE FAITH OR BELIEVE OR BELIEVETH CONTINUOS ACTION.

Two, Romans 6:17,18. Paul states," God be thanked you were the servants of sin but you have OBEYED from the heart that FORM OF DOCTRINE delivered you and being made free from sin you becamne the servants of righteousness. Gospel is a form of Teaching to be obeyed to save by the power of God through Jesus Christ.

Three, In Romans 6: 3-5, Paul writes by inspiration,3Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection. Paul delivers the form of doctrine delivered that saves by the gosple God's power to save. Paul writes in Col. 2:12, " 12buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead." Men must trust God's operation of baptism to save.

Four, Paul writes and connects baptism with the blood of Christ. In Eph. 1:7, "7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace. Paul writes in Eph. 5:26,27, ", 26that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

Five, Paul understood the application of the things he wrote. In Acts 22:16, The Bible says, " 16‘And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord. The two other times the phrase callin on the name of the Lord are found in Roamans 10:13, Acts 2:21. In both cases, those who called did so by obeying that form of doctrine delivered. Acts 2:38, Romans 6;3-5.

Yes, I have received a gift before and I have also rejected some. One time someone gave me a book on Calvinism, I simply replied, NO Thanks, and rejected the gift!!

However, before I have accepted any gift, I had to receive it. John 1:11-13.

I also had to seek out the giver. Mat. 7:7, Hebrews 11:6, Mat. 11:28-30.

I had also to agree with the conditions required for receiving the gift. I had to accept the invitation to attend and the conditions to receive the gift. Gal. 3:24-29.

Upon finding out the giver was granting me a book on Calvinism, I rejected the gift. I said,No Thanks,it is useless in order to be saved.

Jesus said men can accept him or reject him. John 12: 48. Therefore, men may reject his gift.
I accepted the gift of salvation but rejected the false teachings of Calvin.

Seriously, it is real simple. In Acts 2:37, Man's will to be save is made known.
In Acts 2:38, God's will for man to be saved is made known.
In Acts 2:40, The divine imperative for man to be saved is expressed by God through the Holy Spirit. Verse 40 states, " With many other words did he testify and exhort saying save your selves form this untoward generation."
In Acts 2:41, God's desire for man to obey the gospel to be saved is revealed. The result of grace and faith are revealed. The Bible says in Acts 2:41, " And they that gladly RECEIVED THE WORD WERE BAPTIZED and the same day were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Frank:

Yes, I have received a gift before and I have also rejected some. One time someone gave me a book on Calvinism, I simply replied, NO Thanks, and rejected the gift!!

However, before I have accepted any gift, I had to receive it. John 1:11-13.

I also had to seek out the giver. Mat. 7:7, Hebrews 11:6, Mat. 11:28-30.

I had also to agree with the conditions required for receiving the gift. I had to accept the invitation to attend and the conditions to receive the gift. Gal. 3:24-29.

Upon finding out the giver was granting me a book on Calvinism, I rejected the gift. I said,No Thanks,it is useless in order to be saved.

Jesus said men can accept him or reject him. John 12: 48. Therefore, men may reject his gift.
I accepted the gift of salvation but rejected the false teachings of Calvin.

Seriously, it is real simple. In Acts 2:37, Man's will to be save is made known.
In Acts 2:38, God's will for man to be saved is made known.
In Acts 2:40, The divine imperative for man to be saved is expressed by God through the Holy Spirit. Verse 40 states, " With many other words did he testify and exhort saying save your selves form this untoward generation."
In Acts 2:41, God's desire for man to obey the gospel to be saved is revealed. The result of grace and faith are revealed. The Bible says in Acts 2:41, " And they that gladly RECEIVED THE WORD WERE BAPTIZED and the same day were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Your understanding of the gift of God--salvation, by your illustration, demonstrates your lack of understanding of salvation itself. When one is saved he receives the gift of God, which is salvation, and becomes a child of God. God becomes his Father. Let's put that down on a human level where we are better able to understand it.

"However, before I have accepted any gift, I had to receive it. John 1:11-13."
--Accepting and receiving are the same thing. They are synonymous. Your statement here makes no sense.

"I also had to seek out the giver."
--This is a totally unscriptural statement. No man seeks after God; not one.
Rom.3:11 "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."
God seeks after man; man does not seek after God. Man seeks after God like a thief seeks after a police station. He is a sinner running from a just and righteous God. As a sinner you don't seek out the giver. He seeks out you.

"I had also to agree with the conditions required for receiving the gift. I had to accept the invitation to attend and the conditions to receive the gift."
--What conditions?
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
--The gift of God is eternal life. What is a gift?
When I give gifts to my children on their birthdays or at Christmastime, those gifts are unconditional, given out of love. I am not going to come to them a week later and say to them: "You did not behave yourself yesterday, therefore I am taking away the gift I gave you." Neither is God that cruel. A gift is a gift. By virtue of being a gift, it does not have any conditions attached to it. It is unconditional. There are no conditions to be met. I sometimes give gifts to my wife, not because it is her birhtday, or anniversary or Christmas, but simply because I love her. God acts out of love. The gift of God is eternal life. It has no conditions attached. Simply receive it.

"They that gladly received his word were baptized." That is right. First they were saved, then in obedience they were baptized aferwards. Baptism had nothing to do with their salvation.
DHK

 

[Frank]

DHK:
A CONDITIONAL gift requires both an acceptance of the terms and then OBEDIENCE to those terms in order to receive the gift of salvation. If I do not accept the terms by which the gift will be given, I can not receive the intended gift. You just do not understand english grammar any better than you understand how to answer the question , What must I do to be saved? Acts 2:37;16:30;9:6.
Your comment about no man can seek after God is without support. Acts 17: 26-30. The Bible teaches we are to happly SEEK after him. Mat. 7:7 Jesus said in the present tense ask and it shall be given SEEK and ye shall find. Rev. 22: 17 Let whosoever will come and partake of the water of life feely. Mat. 11:28. Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Mat. 6:33 SEEK ye first the kingdom of God and his righteosuness and all these things shall be added unro you.
DHK, read verses 9-11 of Romans 3, unless my memory has failed me some where in there it says they have all GONE OUT OF THE WAY. Logic, the english language and the meaning of the word GONE implies a past conditon of being IN the way. They have through the action of going went or gone out of the way. Again, you fail to understand the basic verb meaning behind the action verb go. However, your doctrine want let you have it any other way. So, you just deny the very meaning of the word.
THERE ARE CONDITIONS BY WHICH ONE RECEIVES GRACE THAT SAVES. Jesus spoke all of them. Believe,Repent Confess, be baptized in his blood for unto the remission of sins. John 8:24, Luke 13:3, Mat. 10:32, Mark 16;16, Mk. 14: 24, Rev. 1:5.
DHK, even kids can accept or reject a gift. They may say I do not like it or want it, take it back. Mine have done this at times. One may refuse the conditions by which he may receive the gift. JOHN 12:48. There are numerous examples of people who reject the gift. In John 5, the pharisses would not come to him that they might have eternal life. Some men reject or return the gift. Those of John 6 walked with him no more. Jesus asked the 12 will ye also go away. Those of John 5 rejected the conditions that would have allowed the reception of salvation. Those of John 6 Returned the gift given. They decided I do not like it or want it.SEE ALSO: I Tim.1:18,19, II Tim. 2:27, II Tim 4:10, Rev 2.3.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Frank:

A CONDITIONAL gift requires both an acceptance of the terms and then OBEDIENCE to those terms in order to receive the gift of salvation.

Your entire post rests upon this one false concept.

Here is the American Heritage Dictionary's definition of the word "gift:"

Gift: "Something that is bestowed voluntarily and without compensation."

A gift is bestowed 'voluntarily.' It is not earned. It is without compensation. You don't pay for it or "work" for it. In application, you don't need to do the work of baptism for the gift of salvation. It is a gift.
It has no conditions. That goes contrary to the very definition of what a gift is. A gift by nature is unconditional. Once you set conditions on a gift it becomes a bribe, not a gift. Please don't put our Holy and righteous God into that class.
It does not require obedience. To say so is to negate the definition of "gift." If I have to obey, work, do, then I am earning whatever you are giving. It no longer is a gift; it is a wage, something I deserve. The wages of sin are death. I earn those. But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. I did not do anything to earn eternal life--not one thing. Jesus paid it all. He paid the complete and full penalty of my sin, and then laid it all at the Father's feet that I might be justified before Him. There is nothing that I can do but receive His gift of salvation.
"But as many as received Him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. (John 1:12).
Have you totally and unconditionally received His gift of salvation, or are you trusting in your own works--works that can never save?
DHK

 

[Frank]

DHK:
I used the Bible define the gift of salvation.

Jesus proclaims the CONDITIONS in John 8:24, Luke 13:3. Mat. 10:32, Mk. 14:24, Rev. 1:5, Mk. 16;16. You say there are none. Jesus said one may ACCEPT HIS WORDS or REJECT THEM John 12:48. That being the case, you will still be judged by them. I know this chagrins those who wrote the Ameircan Heritage Dictionary.

The inspired John says we must receive it. John 1:11-13. I still do not understand your redundant term acceptance. The power John is refering to is the gospel. Please read Romans 1:16,17. I know it is not the American Heritage Dictionary, but may be it will suffice.

You say we cannot obey to receive the gift. Jesus said we must. Mat. 7;21-24, John 3:36. The writer of Hebrews says by inspiration Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all them that obey him. Hebs. 5:8,9. He did not say what you want him to say. He is the author of eternal salvation to all them that believe only and do nothing!!!

You say no works are involved by man to recieve the gift. Jesus said that belief, one of the CONDITIONS, is a work of God we must do. John 6;28,29. This is Not working to merit salvation. Eph. 2:8,9. It is doing exactly what Abraham did. James 2:21-24. He had an obedient active faith and received what God promised he would give him. Jesus said we SHOULD WORK THE WORKS OF ABRAHAM. John 8:39. You say we should not! But, the Bible teaches there is something we MUST DO. The must do in Acts 2:37;16:30;9:6 is from the GREEK word DEI. It means a divine imperative. Acts 2:38-41 and a host of other passages. An obeident active faith is essential. It always has been always will be. Read Hebrews 11, the entire chapter. Read every account of faith that recieves grace and it is ALWAYS ACTIVE. The Bible says in Hebrews 11:30," by faith the walls of Jericho fell AFTER they were encompassed about seven days. You want it to read before. It just will not work that way. The entire account may be found in Joshua chapter 6.

Jesus said we should SEEK. Mat. 7:7,Mat. 6:33, Mat. 11:28-30. You say we cannot seek. Jesus says we can.

You cannot support your false arguement with the totality of the harmonious evidence so you turn to, of all things a secular dictionary, to try and support your claims!!! Who are you trying to persuade?

This is so much just blowing with the wind. You just have nothing to present from the word to defend your claim so you turn to MAN to help you out. I am not surprised as your doctrine is of men.

DISOBEDIENCE WILL NOT RECEIVE SALVATION. The Bible says so. II Thes. 1:6-9.

You claim men are saved before and without water baptism. However, the inspired Peter says baptism doth also now save us. I Pet. 3:21. Who are we to believe Peter or you. That is a no brainer!!

You should give up this false doctrine for the simplicity and salvation IN Christ. II Tim 2:10.

 

[Dualhunter]

You do not use the Bible to define things Frank. I quoted the Bible where the Bible defines the Gospel in contrast to you who quoted a bunch of verses which you claim define the Gospel but your definition doesn't match the one Paul gave in 1 Corinthians 15. Likewise, your understanding of a free gift is lacking.

15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of (30) the one (31) the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by (32) the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand (33) the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned (34) through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will (35) reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
18 So then as through (36) one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one (37) act of righteousness there resulted (38) justification of life to all men.
19 For as through the one man's disobedience (39) the many (40) were made sinners, even so through (41) the obedience of the One (42) the many will be made righteous. - Romans 5:15-19 NASB

 

[Frank]

Dual:

You said one does not use the Bible to define things. The Bible is it's own best interpreter. II Pet. 1:20,21.

Your statement is an unsubstantiated and biased opinion.
You cannot defend your position from the scriptures so you turn to a dictionary.
Words are defined best by use and context. The word perfect may mean flawless or it may mean complete. A dictionary will not define the word in the context of which it is written. If you want to learn the meaning of a word in the New Testament, consult a Greek Lexicon, not a secular dictionary. If a word has multiple meanings, use the context both immediate and remote to ascertain the meaning of the word in it's contexual setting.
Dictionaries are not perfect in making known the true meaning of a word. They do not accurately portray the meaning as was meant when actaully written or spoken. Dictionaries do not consider context or harmony of the text at hand. Dictionaries do not consider verb tense or voice as the word is used in the text under scrutiny.
Again, I guess you do not understand grammar.
What else can be said. You have aligned yourself against the Word of God!!

 

[Dualhunter]

You have no argument so you resort to twisting what I say?

"You do not use the Bible to define things Frank"

"You" not "one"

I quoted the Bible where the Bible defines the Gospel in contrast to you who quoted a bunch of verses which you claim define the Gospel but your definition doesn't match the one Paul gave in 1 Corinthians 15. In doing so you've denied your own principal of letting Scripture define and interpret itself.

"If you want to learn the meaning of a word in the New Testament, consult a Greek Lexicon, not a secular dictionary."

Careful what you wish for...

The Greek word used for "free gift" is "charisma"

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon

Charisma

1. a favour with which one receives without any merit of his own
2. the gift of divine grace
3. the gift of faith, knowledge, holiness, virtue
4. the economy of divine grace, by which the pardon of sin and eternal salvation is appointed to sinners in consideration of the merits of Christ laid hold of by faith
5. grace or gifts denoting extraordinary powers, distinguishing certain Christians and enabling them to serve the church of Christ, the reception of which is due to the power of divine grace operating on their souls by the Holy Spirit

Your insults condemn you, Frank.

 

[Frank]

Dual:
I Cor, 15 is not a defintion of the gospel that saves. It is a summary of the sacrifice of Christ that made it possible. Read the context.
If this is the defintion, and it is not, it falls short in several areas.
1. I Cor. 15 says nothing of repentance. Jesus said in Luke 24:46-51, that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name to all nations beginning at Jerusalem. Is preaching the remission of sins not a part of the gospel messasge?
2. I Cor. 15 says nothing of the shed blood of Christ which was for the remission of sins. Rev. 1:5, Eph.1:7, Mk. 14:24. Is the blood of Christ a part of the saving gospel.
3. I Cor. 15 does not reveal How One receives salvation. Does one have to accept the message?

 

[Frank]

Dual:
Yes, It is and it must be received through the power of the Holt Spirit. How does the Holy Spirit operate? He uses the word. Hebrews 4:12 Eph. 6:17. One must receive the word for salvation to be given, I Pet. 1:23.
The problem is you do not understand that their are CONDITIONS essential to reception of the gift. Again, Jesus said what he said and he meant what he said. The CONDITIONS whereby one may receive salvation according to the divine volume and the Lord himself are as follows:
1. Belief. John 8:24;6:28,29.
2. Repentance. Luke 13:3
3. Confession. Mat. 10: 32.
4. Baptism. Mark 16:16.
Grace is unmerited favor. It is not free of conditions. It is by grace through FAITH. it is not grace only or faith only.
The definition, especially number four, explains it quite well. Salvation is given by the merits of Christ LAID HOLD BY FAITH. See Gal. 3:24-29. This is the best commentary on the definition I know.
Actually, my words and this defintion have proven the proposition for those who understand the words merit and LAID HOLD BY FAITH. This phrase denoted a reception by accepting the conditions.
Paul repeated this theme to Timothy in I Tim. 6:12. FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT OF FAITH LAY HOLD TO ETERNAL LIFE. Again, search the context of phrases both immediate,remote and thematically when making conclusions on the meaning of words.
Again, let the context of the word and it's use in context define what is meant. Is fighting and laying hold words that denote the type of faith that receives? It is obvious!
I just do not know how you can continue to make such claims in light of the simple teachings of the New Testament.

 

[Frank]

Dual:
My comments are not meant to insult. They are observations based on your posts. In each case, you have ignored the rules to englsih grammar to make false conclusions. You do not use context and use to determine meaning. This has been the case in the posts directed to me. I cannot help it if you do these unsound things!
I have simply made implications based on what you proclaim is true.
I did not take personal offense when you asserted I was adding to the gospel. I simply used the scriptures to show that your statement was false.
The reason you have to do these things is your doctrine will not let you do it any other way.
Please, do not take it as personal attack, I have nothing against you personally. It's your teaching that is the problem. It just will not stand in the light of the New Testament of Christ.

 

[Dualhunter]

A wage is conditional, a gift is not.

4 Now to the one who (1) works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5 But to the one who does not work, but (2) believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, - Romans 4:4-5 NASB

Here are some key points from 1 Corinthians 15:1-5

"Now (1) I make known to you, brethren, the (2) gospel which I preached to you"

i.e. Paul is about to say what the Gospel is

"which also you received, (3) in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved,"

i.e. this is the Gospel for salvation

"if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, (5) unless you believed in vain."

i.e. if you don't accept the Gospel that Paul preached you don't stand a chance, you have believed in vain in your other gospel

Paul then states what the Gospel is and does not include your many additions.

God is offering you a free gift and your are telling Him you don't want it, you'd rather stick with your own gospel. Fine, you'll be held accountable for your choice, if you hate the free gift, that's not my problem, it's yours.

 

[Frank]

Dual:
Romans 4:1-5 is a treatise on the false idea of earning salvtion. If Abraham had worked as if God had to reward him because he worked, it would have been God owing him salvation. This would have made God a debtor. Romans 4:1-5 simply refutes the idea of meritorius works for salvation.
GOD CHOSE TO TO GIVE ABRAHAM AN UNMERITED GIFT. GOD ALSO CHOSE THE CONDTIONS BY WHICH ABRAHAM COULD RECEIVE THE GIFT. In Gen 12:1-5,Abraham was told to get up out of his home land to receive the gift his sons would receive. The Bible says Abraham CHOSE TO ACCEPT THE CONDITIONS AND RECEIVED GOD'S GIFT. In Gen. 22:1- 17, GOD gave Abraham the CONDITIONS wherby the gracious gift would be rendered. It was an active obedient faith. Hebrews 11: 6-9. Abraham had and obedient active faith and received God's grace.

Christ has spoken unto us the conditions of the grace that saves. They are the following:
1. Believe on him or die in yor sins. John 8:24, John 6:28,29.
2. Repent or perish. Luke 13:3.
3. Confess him before men or be denied before God. Mat.10:32.
4. Be washed in the blood of Christ in the watery grave of baptism for unto the remission of sins. Mark 16:16,Rev.1:5,Eph. 1:7,Romans 6:3-5.
5. Remain faithful unto death. Rev. 2:10.
You are right about one thing. I will stand before Christ and be judged by his words. John 12:48. You will too!
I also know that the DISOBEDIENT will not get into heaven. Mat. 7:21-23, II Thes. 1:6-9. I hope you will obey the gospel of Christ and be prepared when all accounts are settled. Romans 14:12.

 

[DHK]

GOD CHOSE TO TO GIVE ABRAHAM AN UNMERITED GIFT. GOD ALSO CHOSE THE CONDTIONS BY WHICH ABRAHAM COULD RECEIVE THE GIFT. In Gen 12:1- 5,Abraham was told to get up out of his home land to receive the gift his sons would receive. The Bible says Abraham CHOSE TO ACCEPT THE CONDITIONS AND RECEIVED GOD'S GIFT. In Gen. 22:1- 17, GOD gave Abraham the CONDITIONS wherby the gracious gift would be rendered. It was an active obedient faith. Hebrews 11: 6-9. Abraham had and obedient active faith and received God's grace.

"God chose to give Abraham an unmerited gift." That statement is correct. The unmerited gift is God's righteousness, which came by Abraham's faith in God, and nothing more. It was as you say an UNMERITED gift. Therefore, there are no conditions that God has set. It is a free gift, totally unmerited. If there were conditions set, it would not be unmerited would it? It would no longer be free, would it? God's gift is completely free, completely unmerited, with no conditions attached. Your first statement is correct, but then you go on to contradict yourself.
DHK

 

[Frank]

DHK:
You are denying the text of scripture. Gen.12:1-5, Gen. 22. 1-17, James 2:21-24 teach Abraham received grace through faith. It was a CONDITION given by God. You and a million like you can scream and shout otherwise, but the Bible will still say Abraham was justified by a working obedient faith. It is by grace through What CONDITION? through faith. Eph. 2:8,9. What type faith? An Obedient active faith. Hebrews 11: 6-9, Hebrews 5:8,9. It is as clear as crystal, as plain as pie, and as simple as sugar.

 

[Frank]

DHK:
Grace does not rule out conditions.
GOD NEVER SPIRITUALLY BLESSES WITHOUT OBEDIENT FAITH. NEVER!
GRACE IS THE GIFT. God ,the giver, has ,indeed required or made conditons wherby we can and must receive the gift. God CONDITIONED Abraham's blessings upon him obeying, leaving his land, and offering his son. Gen, 12:1-5;22:1-17, Hebrews 11:6-9. The Bible says so!

My position is harmonious and in total agreement with the Bible, but not Calvinism!

Now, if you believe this is in error, take the text and refute it!

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Frank:
Grace does not rule out conditions.

You don't understand grace.

My position is harmonious and in total agreement with the Bible, but not Calvinism!

Your position is not in agreement with the Bible, and does not harmonize with other Scriptures. If you have read other posts, you would remember that I am not a Calvinist.

Now, if you believe this is in error, take the text and refute it!

Both Dualhunter and myself have given ample evidence and reftuation of your position. The problem is that you don't accept it. Jesus said concerning the rich man's five brethren: "Though one rise from the dead they will not believe." Your mind is already made up inspite of the Scriptures we may present to you.
DHK

[ November 07, 2002, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

[Frank]

DHK:
1.You said I do not understand grace. Unsubstantiatted opinion. The Bible teaches Grace must be received by the CONDITIONS JESUS SET FORTH. He said, One Must believe, repent,confess, and be baptized for the remission of sins. This is what the Bible says in John 8:24, Luke 13:3, Mat. 10:32, Mark 16:16. Furthermore, every example in both the old and new testaments demonstrates one must receive the unmerited favor of God by and active obedient faith placed IN Christ or God. I have produced at least 10 examples where this has been demonstrated from the scriptures by word and example. Here is another one for you to IGNORE. By faith the walls of Jericho fell AFTER they were compassed about seven days. Hebrews 11:30, Joshua 6: 1-25. It does not say what you want it to say. By faith the walls fo Jericho fell before they were compassed about seven days.
You have not presented ONE example where one is justified without and obedient active faith. The enite book of Hebrews is replete with examples of an obedient active faith that received the grace of God. Again, without EXCEPTION, this is true in both the Old Testament well as the New. Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all them that obey him. Hebrews 5:9. He is not the author of eternal salvation to all them that believe only and do nothing! You have not presented one example that supports your position, your unsubstantiated claims not withstanding. The evidence indicates that YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND GRACE. Grace,according to the BIBLE AND THE WORDS OF CHRIST, does NOT rule out CONDITIONS.
2. You refuse to examine the texts James 2:21-24, Gen.12:1-5; 22:1-17 ,Hebrews 11:6-9, Romans 4:1-5.
You made a feeble attempt to prove your assertion by using Romans 4:1-5 by trying the old, "let me explain it to you technique" while ignoring the texts that present the evidence as to what Paul is discussing concerning grace. Of course, you must ignore the harmonious evidence to prop up the false doctrine of grace only.
3. Finally, grace only and faith only are Calvinistic teachings. He could not count any better than you. However, let me say it this way, you assume a Calvinistic position. I guess that does not make you a calvinist though you agree with the tenants of his doctrine.
Morover, Dual and yourself have failed to provide by the totality of harmonious evidence that one is saved by grace only and faith only!
You have failed to refute any example in Hebrews 11. In fact, you have ignored the texts previously mentioned. Hebrews 11:6-9,Gen.12:1-5;22:1-17, James 2:21-24, Romans 4:1-5. Harmonize these texts with grace only! or faith only or grace and faith only! I guess that is not three that are alone but one or what ever you are going to say. That is assuming that when one thing is with another or two more they are still alone. Who believes it?
4. I have posted the nine conversions in the book fo Acts. Seven of them by direct quote and two by reference. You addressed Acts 16 By not examining the entire context which includes the verse you dislike, 33, so you leave it out and try to say it supports faith only. This is poor scholarship and causes one to make faulty conclusions.
In the case of Cornelius, an attempt was made to justify faith only by ignoring the entire account in order in chapter 11 beginning at verse 4 and following to verse 16. You ignored the command of verse 48 in chapter ten to be baptized and then examine WHY? The same Peter in Acts 10 spoke the same words for the same reasons in Acts 2:38 and I Pet. 3:21, unless Peter was confussed or had Altzheimers.
Yor position has asserted men cannot SEEK Christ. You employ the one scripture technique to assert this. You use Romans 3:10,11 for your position. If you read one more verse, you find they have all GONE OUT OF THE WAY. vs.12. My conjugation of the verb go,the past tense and voice of the text teaches me at one time those under consideration in the text were IN THE WAY. Logic dictates if a postive is true the negative must also be true. Jesus said we can SEEK HIM. In Mat.7:7 Jesus said, ask and it shall be given SEEK and ye shall find. He also said , SEEK ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness. In Acts 17:27, The inspired writer Luke recorded the inspired Paul teaching us to do something you say we cannot do. He said we should SEEK after him.
You claim belief is not a work. Jesus said in John 6:28,29, it is a work of God WE MUST DO!
You fail to acknowledge the divine volume teaches there are works other than ones of Merit. These are found in Titus 3:5, Gal. 3:11, Gal. 5:19-21. Romans 16:26, Hebrews 11:6, John 3:36. Of course, if you do,your whole system of grace only and faith only falls. And , you had rather have your false doctrine than the truth.
Finally, you use Luke chapter 16 and verse 31, in an analogy that based on evidence presented, and scripture harmonized, is totally false. I have affirmed the old testament examples of faith and grace as well as the new. I affirm the works of Abraham as Christ directed in John 8:39. I believe John 8:39 could apply to you. If you were the children of Abraham you do the works of Abraham. However, you do not believe you can. Sad, Jesus said you could. How is it that ye have no faith? Mk. 4:40.

 

[Dualhunter]

Originally posted by Frank:
DHK:
1.You said I do not understand grace. Unsubstantiatted opinion.

On the contrary, you have substantiated that quite well. You have shown that you are completely blind to grace and haven't the slightest idea how amazing grace is.

 

[Frank]

DHK:
You make bold claims for a man who ignores the rules of grammar,ignores the context of word usage, refuses to harmonize the totality of scriptures on the subject and consider the immediate and remote contexts of scripture.
SEE PREVIOUS POST FOR EVIDENCE!