convicted1
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I was agreeing with you. God named Jacob 'Israel', and did not name that land. People named that land 'Israel'. I'll side with God...
Who gave that 'dirt' the name 'Israel' is what I asked DHK. Surely wasn't God, imo...
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Baptist Doctrine of the Resurrection of the Dead
- Thread starter OldRegular
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I was agreeing with you. God named Jacob 'Israel', and did not name that land. People named that land 'Israel'. I'll side with God...
Who gave that 'dirt' the name 'Israel' is what I asked DHK. Surely wasn't God, imo...
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Sorry. I generally read slowly so my mind can grasp what my eyes see but i simply did not read what you wrote.
No, they never fully possessed the land. They were commmanded to drive out their enemies. But if you read through the first chapter of Judges it is a chapter of failure, not of possession. For example:
Jdg 1:19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
They failed to drive out their enemies. They never claimed the land that was theirs. The Kingdom grew and was at its greatest expansion under the reign of Solomon, but it never reached the full extent of the area that was promised to Abraham.
The promise was given to Abraham, and then Isaac, and then Jacob, who had 12 sons. They were promised all the land that God promised Abraham. It was never fully possessed. One cannot separate the land from the people. Both land and people were promised to Abraham.
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
The "great nation" is Israel and only Israel. It does not apply to us.
"in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed" We are blessed through Abraham; not through Israel per se, but through Abraham. The promise was given to Abraham. We are not an extension of Israel. We are blessed because of Abraham.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Some interesting Scripture:
1 Kings 9:1-9
1 And it came to pass, when Solomon had finished the building of the house of the LORD, and the king’s house, and all Solomon’s desire which he was pleased to do,
2 That the LORD appeared to Solomon the second time, as he had appeared unto him at Gibeon.
3 And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
4 And if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my statutes and my judgments:
5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.
6 But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:
7 Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:
8 And at this house, which is high, every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and they shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house?
9 And they shall answer, Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.
And from the sermon of Stephen detailing the continual rebellion of Israel against God before he was stoned by the Jews.
Acts 7:39-58, NASB
39. “And our fathers were unwilling to be obedient to him, but repudiated him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt,
40. SAYING TO AARON, ‘MAKE FOR US GODS WHO WILL GO BEFORE US; FOR THIS MOSES WHO LED US OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT--WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM.’
41. “And at that time they made a calf and brought a sacrifice to the idol, and were rejoicing in the works of their hands.
42. “But God turned away and delivered them up to serve the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, ‘IT WAS NOT TO ME THAT YOU OFFERED VICTIMS AND SACRIFICES FORTY YEARS IN THE WILDERNESS, WAS IT, O HOUSE OF ISRAEL?
43. ‘YOU ALSO TOOK ALONG THE TABERNACLE OF MOLOCH AND THE STAR OF THE GOD ROMPHA, THE IMAGES WHICH YOU MADE TO WORSHIP THEM. I ALSO WILL REMOVE YOU BEYOND BABYLON.’
44. “Our fathers had the tabernacle of testimony in the wilderness, just as He who spoke to Moses directed him to make it according to the pattern which he had seen.
45. “And having received it in their turn, our fathers brought it in with Joshua upon dispossessing the nations whom God drove out before our fathers, until the time of David.
46. “And David found favor in God’s sight, and asked that he might find a dwelling place for the God of Jacob.
47. “But it was Solomon who built a house for Him.
48. “However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands; as the prophet says:
49. ‘HEAVEN IS MY THRONE, AND EARTH IS THE FOOTSTOOL OF MY FEET; WHAT KIND OF HOUSE WILL YOU BUILD FOR ME?’ says the Lord; ‘OR WHAT PLACE IS THERE FOR MY REPOSE?
50. ‘WAS IT NOT MY HAND WHICH MADE ALL THESE THINGS?’
51. “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
52. “Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become;
53. you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it.”
54. Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him.
55. But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God;
56. and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
57. But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears, and they rushed upon him with one impulse.
58. And when they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him, and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
And then there is this, I believe the final fulfillment of what the Lord told Solomon in the above Scripture!
Matthew 21:42-44
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
1 Kings 9:1-9
1 And it came to pass, when Solomon had finished the building of the house of the LORD, and the king’s house, and all Solomon’s desire which he was pleased to do,
2 That the LORD appeared to Solomon the second time, as he had appeared unto him at Gibeon.
3 And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
4 And if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my statutes and my judgments:
5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.
6 But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:
7 Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:
8 And at this house, which is high, every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and they shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house?
9 And they shall answer, Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.
And from the sermon of Stephen detailing the continual rebellion of Israel against God before he was stoned by the Jews.
Acts 7:39-58, NASB
39. “And our fathers were unwilling to be obedient to him, but repudiated him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt,
40. SAYING TO AARON, ‘MAKE FOR US GODS WHO WILL GO BEFORE US; FOR THIS MOSES WHO LED US OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT--WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM.’
41. “And at that time they made a calf and brought a sacrifice to the idol, and were rejoicing in the works of their hands.
42. “But God turned away and delivered them up to serve the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, ‘IT WAS NOT TO ME THAT YOU OFFERED VICTIMS AND SACRIFICES FORTY YEARS IN THE WILDERNESS, WAS IT, O HOUSE OF ISRAEL?
43. ‘YOU ALSO TOOK ALONG THE TABERNACLE OF MOLOCH AND THE STAR OF THE GOD ROMPHA, THE IMAGES WHICH YOU MADE TO WORSHIP THEM. I ALSO WILL REMOVE YOU BEYOND BABYLON.’
44. “Our fathers had the tabernacle of testimony in the wilderness, just as He who spoke to Moses directed him to make it according to the pattern which he had seen.
45. “And having received it in their turn, our fathers brought it in with Joshua upon dispossessing the nations whom God drove out before our fathers, until the time of David.
46. “And David found favor in God’s sight, and asked that he might find a dwelling place for the God of Jacob.
47. “But it was Solomon who built a house for Him.
48. “However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands; as the prophet says:
49. ‘HEAVEN IS MY THRONE, AND EARTH IS THE FOOTSTOOL OF MY FEET; WHAT KIND OF HOUSE WILL YOU BUILD FOR ME?’ says the Lord; ‘OR WHAT PLACE IS THERE FOR MY REPOSE?
50. ‘WAS IT NOT MY HAND WHICH MADE ALL THESE THINGS?’
51. “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
52. “Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become;
53. you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it.”
54. Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him.
55. But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God;
56. and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
57. But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears, and they rushed upon him with one impulse.
58. And when they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him, and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
And then there is this, I believe the final fulfillment of what the Lord told Solomon in the above Scripture!
Matthew 21:42-44
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
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May I ask. What will God do, concerning the above?
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Hebrews 8:8
Will he cast them away or will he re-birth the ones he found fault with?
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Heb 8:10-12
Ezek 37?
Spiritual isreal are those Jews saved out by God from each generation, as he still has dealings with national isreal, or have you torn Romans and revelation out from your bible then?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The New Covenant [Jeremiah 31:31f and Hebrews 8:8f] was instituted with the death of Jesus Christ [Hebrews 9:8ff]. A so-called ethnic Jew will be saved the same way as anyone else!
peter stated that if the Jewish nation would have received jesus as promised messaih, God would have brought in the Kingdom Age back then, but that there is still a coming time national Isreal will accept jesus, and how great a time of restoration that will be
17 “Now, fellow Israelites, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20 and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’[a]
24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”
Acts 3:17-26 nasb
Originally it was the land of Canaan, the Promised Land.
They refused to go in and conquer it. It remained unconquered. But it was a land always promised to Israel (Jacob's people). It is therefore rightly named Israel after Jacob, even after the UN gave it back to them, at least in part. That is far more accurate than calling it the land of Canaan for the ungodly Canaanites, whom they never fully conquered still live there to this day, and could justly claim as their own. But the name "Israel" has its stamp on the land, and not some other foreign nation's.
This has nothing to do with the rejection of Israel as we know it, and any heretical doctrine as the replacement of the church.
Israel still exists.
Take the Scripture in context. Who is Christ speaking to? He is speaking to the ones at that time that rejected Christ; no doubt the very leaders, the Sanhedrin who were the ones that condemned him to death and crucified him. They were the ones that were condemned by our Lord--not the entire nation.
The kingdom was taken from the leaders. They had rejected it; not all the Jews had rejected it. Still a remnant shall be saved.
So then all Israel shall be saved.
Paul was not a deluded fanatic, demented in his belief that Israel in his time would be saved. Yet he prayed earnestly for their salvation (Romans 10:1,2).
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Nonsense! Peter did not say that and you can't show that from the Scripture you posted!
Yeshua1;213921517 “Now said:
Paul gives the correct interpretation to the promise made to Abraham.
Galatians 3:16. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Galatians 3:29. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
So the promises to Abraham are fulfilled in the Church!
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