Baptist History and Info

[David Lamb]

It does appear that there are two different groups who call themselves Baptists.
The first group origionates from the Protestants who left the Roman church, bringing some of Rome's errors such as infant baptism with them.
They are usually Calvinists
The second group of Baptists origionate from the several groups who were never part of the Roman church ((see the booklet "the trail of blood")) and insist on only baptising those old enough to understand and have already accepted Jesus as savior. They are seldom Calvinists.

I think you are mistaken. There are indeed some Baptists who hold to Calvinistic doctrines. Here in the UK such churches tend to be called "Grace Baptist" churches or "Reformed Baptist" churches. Their statements of faith would be based on, or similar to, the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith. Some Baptist are more Arminian in their beliefs; such churches are called "General Baptists" here. However, a distinctive of all Baptist churches is that they believe that baptism is for believers. They don't put a lower age limit on baptism, despite it sometimes being wrongly stated that Baptists only baptise adults - they don't. They baptise believers. That excludes tiny babies. So they didn't bring the idea of baptising little babies from Roman Catholicism - Baptists don't baptise babies.

I don't know much about the Trail of Blood - I don't think it had much of an impact on this side of the "Pond". But as I understand it, the notions put forward in "The Trail of Blood" are believed and followed by just one particular group of Baptist Churches in the USA. They are known as "Landmark Baptist Churches" or "Baptist Bride Churches." As far as I am aware, there are comparatively few such churches.

 

[Lewis HB]

I think that most KJV baptsts/// the independent baptist bible fellowship churches, the Bible Believeing Baptist churches, and many/most Southern baptist churches eithor have "the trail of blood" booklet available or reccomend it.
As for the Baptist Briders, imho/ understanding is that there was not just one independant church since Jesus time.. Instead, there were a series of Christian movements/ groups outside the Roman church since the first century. Montanists, Novitionists, Donatisits, Paulicians,Albigenses, Waldenses, Ana-baptists, Arnoldists,Henricians, are those mentioned in that booklet. Of course there were many more. Roman church records say they murdered tens of millions of believers between the time of Constantine and the Reformation.

 

[David Lamb]

I think that most KJV baptsts/// the independent baptist bible fellowship churches, the Bible Believeing Baptist churches, and many/most Southern baptist churches eithor have "the trail of blood" booklet available or reccomend it.
As for the Baptist Briders, imho/ understanding is that there was not just one independant church since Jesus time.. Instead, there were a series of Christian movements/ groups outside the Roman church since the first century. Montanists, Novitionists, Donatisits, Paulicians,Albigenses, Waldenses, Ana-baptists, Arnoldists,Henricians, are those mentioned in that booklet. Of course there were many more. Roman church records say they murdered tens of millions of believers between the time of Constantine and the Reformation.

All I can say is that that is certainly not the case here in the UK. I have never heard of a Baptist church here that either has the "Trail of Blood" booklet available, or believes the sort of things it says. Perhaps somebody who knows the Baptist "scene" in the US could tell us whether such beliefs are very widespread among Baptists there.

 

[Lewis HB]

> >, Well David, I have been involved in the IBBF, and some of them are loosely affiliated with the SBC, and am now with the BBBC... ((of IB
> >)) ... dont you just love those abbrev's HaHa
I am also now 78, and have been saved over fifty years, so I know something about the baptists on the left side of the Pond!!! Where in the UK are you from? Both of my families are from there some 400 years ago!

 

[Lewis HB]

It may be that UK baptists don't know about 'the trail of blood" because most of the Baptists in England are descendants of Protestants???
As I had said, there are basically two kinds of Baptists.

 

[Salty]

I think that most KJV baptsts/// the independent baptist bible fellowship churches, the Bible Believeing Baptist churches, and many/most Southern baptist churches eithor have "the trail of blood" booklet available or reccomend it.

What makes you think most Indp Bap and/or Southern Bat use the Trail of Blood? Many DO NOT?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

It may be that UK baptists don't know about 'the trail of blood" because most of the Baptists in England are descendants of Protestants???
As I had said, there are basically two kinds of Baptists.

There is only one kind of Baptist. The kind that baptises believers only.

 

[Jerome]

Sermon by prominent British Baptist Charles Spurgeon, "The True Apostolic Succession":

"I hear Ritualists talking of their ancient church....kinship with the Roman Antichrist....Our limpid streamlet runs not through that slough of filthiness, but comes down pure from earliest ages. Our doctrines and ordinances remain as they were delivered unto us by our Lord. Neither have we desired to add the traditions of men to them."

"Each tribe...has its own history and I leave my brethren of various denominations to speak to their own. I will now address myself especially to those who are known as Baptists. As for us, the baptized followers of Christ, our ancestry as a body of Christian men is not to be despised....Our fathers, for holding to baptism as the Lord ordained it, suffered at the hands of men who knew no mercy. Their beliefs were misrepresented"

"the name of Anabaptist...was wrongfully associated with fanatical opinions....they were before their times....long before there were any Lutherans or Calvinists"

"They were, in fact, the most bold and thoroughgoing of all the adherents of the apostolic and scriptural church and therefore they were persecuted...your sires...neither feared Luther nor the Pope, and were hated of all men and even by Reformers because they occupied a standpoint still bolder, clearer, and more advanced than all others"

"I beseech you, brethren....let us endeavor to continue their testimony undiminished...and untarnished"

 

[Jerome]

Charles Spurgeon, "Hearken and Look, Encouragement for Believers" [Annual Sermon to the Baptist Missionary Society]:

"History has hitherto been written by our enemies, who never would have kept a single fact about us upon the record if they could have helped it—and yet it leaks out every now, and then that certain poor people called Anabaptists were brought up for condemnation....Long before you Protestants were known of, these horrible Anabaptists, as they were unjustly called, were protesting for the “one Lord, one faith and one baptism.” No sooner did the visible church begin to depart from the Gospel than these men arose to keep fast by the good old way. The priests and monks wished for peace and slumber, but there was always a Baptist or a Lollard tickling men’s ears with Holy Scripture, and calling their attention to the errors of the times. They were a poor, persecuted tribe. The halter was thought to be too good for them. At times ill-written history would have us think that they died out, so well had the wolf done his work on the sheep. Yet here we are, blessed and multiplied."

 

[Jerome]

R. B. C. Howell, a founder of the Southern Baptist Convention, in 1846:

"Neither can we submit to be classed with those who, after casting off some of the shackles of Catholicism, denominated themselves Reformed churches. We call not our churches reformed, because we believe them no better than their predecessors. . . .we are not Protestants, nor Dissenters, Lutherans, Calvinists, Arminians, nor Reformers, but what we have been in all ages, the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ."

http://books.google.com/books?id=Dl0wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA251

 

[David Lamb]

> >, Well David, I have been involved in the IBBF, and some of them are loosely affiliated with the SBC, and am now with the BBBC... ((of IB
> >)) ... dont you just love those abbrev's HaHa
I am also now 78, and have been saved over fifty years, so I know something about the baptists on the left side of the Pond!!! Where in the UK are you from? Both of my families are from there some 400 years ago!

I'm originally from Colchester in Essex, about 56 miles north east of London. Since 1975 I have lived in the south west of England. I now live in Paignton (pronounced "Paint'n") on the south coast of the county of Devon.

 

[David Lamb]

It may be that UK baptists don't know about 'the trail of blood" because most of the Baptists in England are descendants of Protestants???
As I had said, there are basically two kinds of Baptists.

To be honest, I have no idea how many UK Baptists don't know about "The Trail of Blood." In the sense that many doctrines believed by Baptists were rediscovered at the time of the Reformation, yes, it could be said that Baptists (not just those in the UK) are descended from the Reformation, although most of the Reformers held to doctrines like infant baptism, and Baptists do not.

Yes, I agree that there are two kinds of Baptists - General Baptists, who hold Arminian beliefs, and Particular Baptists, sometimes called "Grace Baptists" or "Reformed" Baptists", whose beliefs are more Calvinistic.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

R. B. C. Howell, a founder of the Southern Baptist Convention, in 1846:

"Neither can we submit to be classed with those who, after casting off some of the shackles of Catholicism, denominated themselves Reformed churches. We call not our churches reformed, because we believe them no better than their predecessors. . . .we are not Protestants, nor Dissenters, Lutherans, Calvinists, Arminians, nor Reformers, but what we have been in all ages, the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ."

http://books.google.com/books?id=Dl0wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA251

That is mumbo-jumbo. We have cast off the shackles of Roman Catholicism, and therefore we call our churches Reformed. They are Reformed in line with the Bible, where we find no popes, cardinals or archbishops, and no baptism of infants. Instead we find the sovereignty of God in all matters and the free preaching of the Good News of Jesus Christ.

We don't look to dubious accounts of Christianity in the Dark Ages where there may or may not have been churches that baptised only believers, and then ignore the fact that most of them were gnostic. We look to the Bible, to the practice of the Lord Jesus and the apostles.

I am happy to be called a Protestant, sonce I protest against the sacramentalism, formalism and liberalism of many churches, including some that call themselves Baptist.
I am happy to be called a Dissenter in that I have dissented from the Anglicanism that is collapsing in a heap in many churches in Britain, though I will happily associate with Anglican churches that preach the Gospel. 'For Christ did not send me to baptise, but to preach the Gospel.'
I am happy to be called a Calvinist since I agree with Spurgeon that Calvinism is nothing but Biblical Christianity.