Baptist? OSAS? pretrib or post-trib?

[Ed Edwards]

Interesting poll.

Click on any of the numbers of votes and
you can see who voted how. You can do
this if you are a member without voting first.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:
//Actually the Biblically accurate one is not listed.

//1. REAL 1000years
2. REAL FIRSt resurrtection being the FIRST and starting the 1000 year timeline just as Rev 20 says.
3. REAL rapture and resurrection of the church (1thess 4) that is seen by John in Rev 20 and Paul in 1Thess 4 as "The FIRST resurrection" where the "dead in Christ rise FIRST".
4. The Church really in heaven - with Christ in heaven for a real 1000 years.//

Actually, I did describe that.
What I said was totally uncontraversial information.

The Bolded part below describes what you described:

Ed said:
//The three standard millennial/Second Coming
relationships are:

1. a-millennial - the Millennial reign of Christ is to be
spiritually discerned, not physically.
(Two subgroups divide according to
if the Second Coming of Christ is to be
spiritually discerned ONLY or has spiritual + physical
parameters)//

As always, I quit using REAL & use Physical.
Physical is the opposite of Spiritual
REAL is the opposite of UNREAL
/I.e. not the opposite of spiritual/

In my post "REAL" means "REAL not spiritually etherial - not to be taken as non-literal"

There are two directions to get to 'post-trib'
One path to post-trib only rapture2 comes
from a-mill -- which is what Bro. BobRyan said.

Is there ANYONE who claims to be "a-mill" but believes in a "literal 1000 year period" between the first resurreciton coming of Christ and the 2nd resurrection?

If so - I have not seen them post here.

You are claiming that people who believe in a literal 1000 year millennium call themselves "a-mill".

Please show me where that is coming from.

This we believe -
pre-mill means:
the Second Coming of Jesus before
the Millennial Messanic Kingdom

post-mill means:
the Millennial Messanic Kingdom before
the Second Coming of Jesus

a- mill, with the prefix 'a-', meaning that the 1000 years of Rev 20 is not a literal 1000 year period of time.

As pointed out - in Matt 24 we see a post-trib Pre-mill 2nd coming

 

[BobRyan]

Your link references this

http://66.155.114.80/video/Dsl/5811-D.wmv

I am talking to someone at NASA about the reference they make there.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[David Lamb]

Is there ANYONE who claims to be "a-mill" but believes in a "literal 1000 year period" between the first resurreciton coming of Christ and the 2nd resurrection?

If so - I have not seen them post here.

You are claiming that people who believe in a literal 1000 year millennium call themselves "a-mill".

Please show me where that is coming from.

This we believe -
pre-mill means:
the Second Coming of Jesus before
the Millennial Messanic Kingdom

post-mill means:
the Millennial Messanic Kingdom before
the Second Coming of Jesus

a- mill, with the prefix 'a-', meaning that the 1000 years of Rev 20 is not a literal 1000 year period of time.

As pointed out - in Matt 24 we see a post-trib Pre-mill 2nd coming

I must say that I agree with Rob on this, BUT, having looked at Ed Sutton's post again, he doesn't (as far as I can see) say anything about whether the thousand years are literal or figurative, though he implies the latter, by saying that amillennialists believe the millennial reign to be spiritually discerned:

1. a-millennial - the Millennial reign of Christ is to be
spiritually discerned, not physically.
(Two subgroups divide according to
if the Second Coming of Christ is to be
spiritually discerned ONLY or has spiritual + physical
parameters)//

​

 

[BobRyan]

Very often you find amillenialists declaring that the millennium is a figure of speech referring to the "church age" since some time near the time of Christ until this very day - coverng more than 1000 literal years.

I have not seen anyone on this board claiming to believe in an amillennial view AND also claiming that it is a literal 1000 year period of time starting at the 2nd coming as Rev 20 states.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

//You are claiming that people who believe in a literal 1000
year millennium call themselves "a-mill".//

Yes. But you may have missed some of what I meant.

there are those who think 'spiritual' = real & literal
(I don't agree with them).
So to distinguish between these 'spiritual' Millennial
Messanic Kingdom believers who are a-mill and myself
who is pre-mill -- I say that their spiritual Millennial
Messanic Kingdom is NOT PHYSICAL.

//a- mill, with the prefix 'a-', meaning that the 1000 years of Rev 20 is not a literal 1000 year period of time.//

I disagree (I have to talk to actual mystics who spiritualize most
everythig that they can)

All these are 'spiritual' realities that are quite 'real'
(But they sure won't happen in the flesh /i.e. be physical
instead of spiritual):

Jesus comes again to each person when they die
Heaven is a spiritual place for the saved
Hell is a spiritual place for the unsaved
The Millennial Messanic Kingdom is Heaven, (i.e. a spiritual place)

etc., etc.

Here is my definition of a-mill:

a- mill, with the prefix 'a-', meaning that the 1000 years
of Rev 20 is 'spiritual' in nature (not a physical 1000 year
period of time)

 

[BobRyan]

//You are claiming that people who believe in a literal 1000
year millennium call themselves "a-mill".//

Yes.

Do we have any examples of that -- anywhere?

Someone claiming a literal 1000 year millennium AND claiming that their view is "a-mill"?

These guys seem to have the right definition -

http://www.reformedreader.org/mchart.htm

 

[Ed Edwards]

//a- mill, with the prefix 'a-', meaning that the 1000 years of Rev 20 is not a literal 1000 year period of time.//

this statement means that the 'millennium' is not exactly 1,000
years long but that the 1,000 is symbolic of a LARGE NUMBER
(some who think we are IN THE MELLINNIAL MESSANIC
KINGDOM /you know, folk who don't read newspapers
or history books/ say it has been going nearly 2,000 now so
it has to mean LARGE NUMBER)

The a-mills have to have Revelation 20 in their Bible
and do something with it. I'm saying that they say
the Millennial Messanic Kingdom is spiritually discerned
(i.e. 'spiritual') -- it is real, it is literal - it just
isn't physically discerned, it is spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
But the naturall man perceiueth not the things
of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishnesse vnto him:
neither can hee knowe them,
because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[David Lamb]

I have not seen anyone on this board claiming to believe in an amillennial view AND also claiming that it is a literal 1000 year period of time starting at the 2nd coming as Rev 20 states.

in Christ,

Bob

I would go further, Bob, and say that I have never seen or heard of anybody, whether on this board, or anywhere else, claiming to believe in an amillennial view AND also claiming that it is a literal 1000 year period of time starting at the 2nd coming. It would seem to be a contradiction in terms.

 

[BobRyan]

KenH recently posted that he is amill -- I have asked if he ever heard of an amill group claiming that there is a real 1000 year Millennium that begins at the 2nd coming event of Rev 19.

Ed recently posted that one of his Amill definitions allows for what we see today - AMill groups that do not hold to a literal 1000 year period starting at the 2nd coming as the "millennium".

---

In the mean time - I am pre-mill and Post-trib. Believing in a literal 1000 year millennium starting at the 2nd coming and separating the first resurrection from the 2nd.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

The poll is closed.

Is the topic still open (can be posted in)?

 

[BobRyan]

Poll closed -- election over --

But I would vote - Non-Baptist, non-OSAS, post-trib

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

Actually, you did vote Brother BobRyan, exactly as you said.

So we have found one good thing about suspending the voting after 3 months -- one can vote again!

 

[BobRyan]

It is often very difficult for me to remember what I voted 3 months ago -- so you are right -- I could be posting on this topic all year -- about once every 3 months to give my "vote" -

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Palatka51]

I have a Baptist prewrath and OSAS outlook on scripture. Is it better to vote late than never?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I have a Baptist prewrath and OSAS outlook on scripture. Is it better to vote late than never?

Can a Baptist be Amillenialist?

 

[Ed Edwards]

I have a Baptist prewrath and OSAS outlook on scripture. Is it better to vote late than never?

It is better to vote late than never.

 

[David Lamb]

Can a Baptist be Amillenialist?

Of course so! I'm one, and I know plenty of others. Why do you imagine the two terms ("baptist" and "Amillenial") are mutualy exclusive?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Can a Baptist be Amillenialist?

Short answer: YES

Long answer: Baptist Preacher DeafPosttrib is an amillennialist.

'Amillennial' refers to the belief that the Millennial Messanic Kingdom is to be discerned as a spiritual truth NOT a physical truth. There are several kinds of a-mills:

1. Post-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture only:
This belief is that the post-trib appearance of Christ is a physical truth

2. A-Tribulation:
The Resurrection/Rapture/ Second Coming of Christ and tribulation is to be discerned as a spiritual truth NOT a physical truth.

Favorite a-mill verses:

2Pe 3:10 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Editiion):
But the day of the Lord will come as a thiefe in the night, in the which the heauens shall passe away with a noyse, and the elements shall melt with heate, and the earth with the workes that are therein, shalbe burnt vp.


1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Editiion):

Which things also we speake, not in the woordes which mans wisedome teacheth, but which the holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spirituall things with spirituall things.
14 But the naturall man perceiueth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishnesse vnto him: neither can hee knowe them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Of course so! I'm one, and I know plenty of others. Why do you imagine the two terms ("baptist" and "Amillenial") are mutualy exclusive?

No. But most Baptist I run into aren't. The more I study the more Amillenial I become. To be honest I'm not sure about a pretrib rapture or a paranthetical church age. I believe Jesus will return in totality not partially and I believe in the judgement. Where does that place me?