Baptist pastor says the victims deserved what they got!

[righteousdude2]

http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/733822

I found this so hard to believe ... I didn't stop for one moment to think about this being a gay bar, but rather a nightclub where 49 Americans were brutally cut down, ambushed by a radical Muslim fanatic.

What are your thoughts on this Baptist preachers views/comments? Does he give the denomination a bad image, or was he clearly within his rights to say what he said?

 

[SovereignGrace]

If that article is true, that pastor needs removed PRONTO. I do NOT condone their lifestyle, but I do not condone slaughtering them either.

 

[Revmitchell]

If the story is true he is an idiot

 

[righteousdude2]

If the story is true he is an idiot

It is true. I watched him being interviewed on the news last night. He's a Hispanic guy, young, and he is quite determined in his view.

 

[Zaac]

http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/733822

I found this so hard to believe ... I didn't stop for one moment to think about this being a gay bar, but rather a nightclub where 49 Americans were brutally cut down, ambushed by a radical Muslim fanatic.

What are your thoughts on this Baptist preachers views/comments? Does he give the denomination a bad image, or was he clearly within his rights to say what he said?

Several people on this board have said in the last couple of years that unarmed black folks gunned down by police got what they deserved. Yes, you knew I was gonna g there.

People say, like: Well, aren't you sad that 50 sodomites died?" Jimenez said, referencing the initial casualty report. "Here's the problem with that. It's like the equivalent of asking me — what if you asked me: 'Hey, are you sad that 50 pedophiles were killed today?

Another reason why Christians shouldn't be advocating death for anyone. He thinks that sodomites and pedophiles deserve death for their sins, be he doesn't deserve death for his which Scripture says is the same as that of the pedophile and the sodomite

 

[Darrell C]

Several people on this board have said in the last couple of years that unarmed black folks gunned down by police got what they deserved

I may have been one of those. There's a difference between a criminal going in and shooting people he doesn't know based on any motivation, and a criminal defying the authority of the Police. I'm not saying every shooting is justified, but if you were honest, you would admit that some of them certainly are, and could have been avoided with compliance.

There's always going to be racist cops, and when there is an unjustified shooting they should be persecuted to the fullest extent of the Law, But, at he same time compliance is always a smarter move than confrontation which can make a police officer fear for his own safety.

And if you were a cop dealing with the dangers Police Officers face on a daily basis, you would likely agree.

Yes, you knew I was gonna g there.

No...really?

So what does this have to do with what the preacher said? You are implying that if one thinks there are justified shootings of criminals at times they should agree with this guy?

Another reason why Christians shouldn't be advocating death for anyone. He thinks that sodomites and pedophiles deserve death for their sins, be he doesn't deserve death for his which Scripture says is the same as that of the pedophile and the sodomite

I would agree with that. Though the death penalty is well within a Biblical model.

I haven't heard much about this, but it sounds like to me that a Muslim killed homosexuals. There's no surprise there. Many liberals who voted for Obama did not realize they were supporting a man who has done more for Islam than any single person since bin Laden.

Quite the irony, no?

Voting for someone who is sympathetic to people who do in fact think the way this so-called Baptist Preacher thinks? That they should be put to death.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/733822

I found this so hard to believe ... I didn't stop for one moment to think about this being a gay bar, but rather a nightclub where 49 Americans were brutally cut down, ambushed by a radical Muslim fanatic.

What are your thoughts on this Baptist preachers views/comments? Does he give the denomination a bad image, or was he clearly within his rights to say what he said?

Shouldn't a Baptist, of all people, be held to the standard of sound doctrine? I think he very much gives Baptists a bad name, because the airhead liberals will think he is actually talking for Baptists.


God bless.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

so .... where they (meaning the homosexuals that were killed) going now that they are dead?

 

[Judith]

Being a Baptist Pastor does not make him a Christian.

 

[Zaac]

I may have been one of those. There's a difference between a criminal going in and shooting people he doesn't know based on any motivation, and a criminal defying the authority of the Police. I'm not saying every shooting is justified, but if you were honest, you would admit that some of them certainly are, and could have been avoided with compliance.

Nope. Murder is murder. There's no reason for anyone not carrying a weapon to be riddled with bullets by the police. And it didn't happen just once but again and again and again. So I'm being honest when I say that not a single unarmed person should be dead at the hands of police fire. And save the stupid compliance defense as many complied and are still dead.

There's always going to be racist cops, and when there is an unjustified shooting they should be persecuted to the fullest extent of the Law, .

Nope. Not gonna happen when you've got prosecutors trying to not indict the cops with whom they work everyday.

But, at he same time compliance is always a smarter move than confrontation which can make a police officer fear for his own safety

Enough of that racially prejudiced stereotypical junk too. Blacks know all too well that a lot of white people like to portray them as the boogeyman, demonic, and just supernaturally strong to the point that the only way to stop them is to kill them.

And if you were a cop dealing with the dangers Police Officers face on a daily basis, you would likely agree.

Nope because this hasn't been about the dangers that police officers face on a daily basis. If it were, you'd see a whole lot of dead unarmed white people at the hands of the police.

No...really?

So what does this have to do with what the preacher said? You are implying that if one thinks there are justified shootings of criminals at times they should agree with this guy?

What I said was "Several people on this board have said in the last couple of years that unarmed black folks gunned down by police got what they deserved."

There's no difference between that sentiment and the sentiment expressed by Jiminez. Naturally you'll disagree because a lot of folks on the right tend to marginalize and devalue the lives of Blacks in the same manner as do the cops who shoot unarmed people.

I would agree with that. Though the death penalty is well within a Biblical model.

Allowing the GOVERNMENT to sanction the death penalty as punishment is in the Biblical model as is divorce. Having the Body of Christ advocate the killing of a fellow sinner after the grace and mercy Christ showed each of us equal sinners on the Cross is not.

I haven't heard much about this, but it sounds like to me that a Muslim killed homosexuals.There's no surprise there.

I've counseled lots of people who have come through the church. Some gay, some not gay. But there was immediately something said that made me think here we have a kid who identifies as Muslim but who also was probably gay and had to hide it. I personally think the whole Islam angle was more of his way of trying to deny his possible sexuality. You don't spend the amount of time that he did with the gay community by himself unless there's an interest.

Many liberals who voted for Obama did not realize they were supporting a man who has done more for Islam than any single person since bin Laden.

I'm not quite sure what this has to do with what we're discussing. The statement is rather tongue in cheek and much of an exaggeration. Donald Trump has done and is doing by far way more.

Quite the irony, no?

Voting for someone who is sympathetic to people who do in fact think the way this so-called Baptist Preacher thinks? That they should be put to death.


God bless.

Sadly, I've heard lots of folks who say they are Christians make equally vile statements over the years. One of the more popular phrasings is that "AIDS is a gay person's punishment for being gay" or "I hope you catch AIDS and die".

 

[Zaac]

so .... where they (meaning the homosexuals that were killed) going now that they are dead?

They aren't GOING anywhere. They've reached their destinations. And if they had come to faith in Jesus Christ, there is nothing they could have done to rip themselves from His hand.

Some will question if they were ever in His hand. I do wonder why the same folks don't question that of the glutton or the ones who show no love for anyone who isn't like them?

 

[Zaac]

Shouldn't a Baptist, of all people, be held to the standard of sound doctrine? I think he very much gives Baptists a bad name, because the airhead liberals will think he is actually talking for Baptists.


God bless.

When the media, national and international thrives on this type of story, they essentially become the face of a denomination and it's the stereotype with which folks come familiar, kinda like Northerners thinking all Southerners are barefoot, southern drawl,possum eating idiots because they saw The Beverly Hillbillies as a kid.

And possum is nasty!

 

[rsr]

We are all sinners, all deserving of death (which all of us will someday taste). Do you suppose that the preacher believes that the young children at Sandy Hook or the toddlers in the preschool at the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City were the recipients of God's justice?

That many of these people were homosexuals is all the more reason to mourn if you believe that they died in unrepented sin.

I am glad that God is judge, not me or some misguided Baptist preacher.

Now at the same time some had come to tell him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.

And he answered [and] said to them, "Do you think that these Galileans were sinners worse than all the Galileans, because they suffered these [things]?

No, I tell you, but unless you repent you will all perish as well!

Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them — do you think that they were sinners worse than all the people who live in Jerusalem?

No, I tell you, but unless you repent, you will all perish as well!"
— Luke 13:1-5, Lexham English Bible

 

[rsr]

Possum is indeed nasty (you can't get the stink out, no matter what you do.) It was bad enough that the Westboro folks paraded around at soldiers' funerals with their hate. It seems the virus has spread to more churches, as evidenced on at least two threads on the BB.

Yes, it's gravy for those who want to denigrate Baptists, and Christians in general. They're lapping it up with glee. Unfortunately, no one has a trademark on the Baptist name, and all we can do is point out that these folks do not speak for us.

 

[Zaac]

We are all sinners, all deserving of death (which all of us will someday taste). Do you suppose that the preacher believes that the young children at Sandy Hook or the toddlers in the preschool at the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City were the recipients of God's justice?

That many of these people were homosexuals is all the more reason to mourn if you believe that they died in unrepented sin.

I am glad that God is judge, not me or some misguided Baptist preacher.

I remember upon first hearing of this act of terror I cried like a little baby that people could be so hateful of themselves and of others. And it moved the tears to pour to think how many may have gone to hell because of a stumbling block set up by those in the Body?

People are just people trying to use various things to deal with their brokenness. And I believe that it continues to be incumbent upon the church to come beside them and say " we get it. We were there too. But Oh for His grace and mercy!"

Some use sex. Some use drugs. Some use work. Every sinner has used something to try to cope with the hurt of brokenness. Christians have to be willing to lay aside the "fight" to win an argument in order to rather save a soul.

And that will never be done by prideful, arrogance that has made the homosexual into the modern day leper.

I frankly hope that all 50 are dancing around God's throne, broken no more.

 

[Aaron]

http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/733822

I found this so hard to believe ... I didn't stop for one moment to think about this being a gay bar, but rather a nightclub where 49 Americans were brutally cut down, ambushed by a radical Muslim fanatic.

What are your thoughts on this Baptist preachers views/comments? Does he give the denomination a bad image, or was he clearly within his rights to say what he said?

Modeled after Christ's comment on the tower of Siloam that fell. Do you think the 50 who were shot were worse sinners than you? No, you will all likewise perish, except you repent.

 

[Darrell C]

Nope. Murder is murder. There's no reason for anyone not carrying a weapon to be riddled with bullets by the police. And it didn't happen just once but again and again and again. So I'm being honest when I say that not a single unarmed person should be dead at the hands of police fire.

That makes about as much sense as thinking we should not have gone into Iraq because the Media says there were no weapons of mass destruction.

Only the fool rattles the imaginary sabre.

And we have been through this. You present a caricature of people based on very limited experience. If anyone has a reason to hate Police Officers, I think I qualify a little more than you, my friend. I have been beaten by corrupt cops, and, they tried to literally kill me by throwing me off a cliff.

Do I hate cops? Nope, because I know what this country would be like without them.

In theory I agree, when an unarmed citizen is shot, the system has failed. However, in practical terms, if a police officer feels threatened, and their orders are not complied with...

...don't whine about getting shot.

Just because a citizen, black or white, red or yellow, isn't armed, doesn't mean they are not potentially lethal. If you don't understand that, then you are not dealing with facts, simply those details relevant to your caricature of reality.

And save the stupid compliance defense as many complied and are still dead.

I don't deny there have been and probably will be bad handlings and unjustified shooting. Doesn't make the responsibility of the citizen to comply with the Law any less.

And it is particularly foolish to try to justify any non-compliance.

What reason, Zaac, does any citizen have not to comply with an Officer of the Law?


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Nope. Not gonna happen when you've got prosecutors trying to not indict the cops with whom they work everyday.

This is a valid point, but that does not mean all prosecutors overlook the Law because they know the involved officer.

Enough of that racially prejudiced stereotypical junk too.

You know, that is precisely what I was thinking. Because it is your particular pattern to stir up racial division.

You live in a black and white world, Zaac, and I am very sorry for you. Not all of us dwell on race, and not all of us judge men based on the color of their skin.

Blacks know all too well that a lot of white people like to portray them as the boogeyman, demonic, and just supernaturally strong to the point that the only way to stop them is to kill them.

This is true. They learn that particular "truth" from preachers like you. The irony is that it is you preaching a boogeyman...the white cop. Whitey still trying to keep you in chains, right?

Nope. It's preachers like you that do that.

Maybe you ought to try to preach the Gospel, and see men freed from sin. Instead of trying to free them from a nemesis that only exists when people like you create them in the minds of those who, because they are men, have a proclivity to hate.

You're distracting them from learning of their real nemesis, Zaac.


Continued...

 

[Don]

Nope. Murder is murder. There's no reason for anyone not carrying a weapon to be riddled with bullets by the police. And it didn't happen just once but again and again and again. So I'm being honest when I say that not a single unarmed person should be dead at the hands of police fire. And save the stupid compliance defense as many complied and are still dead.

That's an ignorant statement.

 

[Darrell C]

Nope because this hasn't been about the dangers that police officers face on a daily basis. If it were, you'd see a whole lot of dead unarmed white people at the hands of the police.

Actually, I thought it was about a preacher that said these gay people got what they deserved.

Pity this fellow wasn't also a cop. Would have got your jollies on that, eh?

What I said was "Several people on this board have said in the last couple of years that unarmed black folks gunned down by police got what they deserved."

There's no difference between that sentiment and the sentiment expressed by Jiminez. Naturally you'll disagree because a lot of folks on the right tend to marginalize and devalue the lives of Blacks in the same manner as do the cops who shoot unarmed people.

Why would I naturally agree, lol. Did I not say I may have been one of them? Some of the shootings cannot be dismissed as whitey just trying to take advantage of getting the chance to shoot a black man.

And it's people like you that stir up rebellion against authority you should be teaching as ordained of God. The civilian world and Governmental Authority intersect on all points, but the Church intersects only insofar as we are commanded to do good that Governmental Authority is irrelevant to us. When Governmental Authority becomes corrupt, and the Church is persecuted...

...what does the Bible teach about that, Zaac? Implicitly and explicitly? Did we see the Apostles going around stirring up anger and hatred for the governing authorities of their day?

No, they preached Christ crucified. That is what you should be doing, instead of year after year wasting your time for your personal cause.

Allowing the GOVERNMENT to sanction the death penalty as punishment is in the Biblical model as is divorce. Having the Body of Christ advocate the killing of a fellow sinner after the grace and mercy Christ showed each of us equal sinners on the Cross is not.

Who did that, Zaac?

No-one. It is a fantasy in your mind built upon the actions of people who are not likely to be Christians to begin with.

And the sad thing is, you do not practice what you preach. You are not displaying the model set before us in Scripture by being caught up in racial division. For Pete's sake, at least step up to sectarian division, lol.

Who on this forum advocates for a "fellow sinners death?" Leave the death penalty out, and show who agrees with the sentiment expressed by the OP.


Continued...