Baptist Perpetuity proven from, “I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS.”

[Alan Gross]

“I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS.”

Jesus Came and Spake to them, saying, “All Power is Given to Me in Heaven and in Earth. Go, therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
***
“teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
***
and lo, I am with you always, even to the End of the World”
[Matthew 28:18-20].

***

Practically all Christians recognize that Jesus was speaking here to His churches.
…
The only real question is, what kind of churches are they?
…
Of course, a HERETICAL, imaginary “invisible” ‘church’ cannot go anywhere; it cannot disciple any nations; it cannot baptize anybody in any way; it cannot teach anybody anything, and being nonexistent, it would not know the difference whether the Lord were with or not.
…
But an Organized Assembly of Baptized Believers, such as Jesus had Constituted His Disciples, can do what He Commanded and in doing so can claim the Promise of His Continuing Presence — and it is the only Organization of Earth that can do so.
…
Jesus Promised this kind of church that He would Always be with HER, even to the End of the Age.
…

Be He could ONLY be with THE KIND of CHURCH JESUS BUILT when THE KIND of CHURCH JESUS BUILT existed on Earth FOR JESUS to CONTINUE to Be with HER.

…

Therefore if Jesus Spoke the Truth He has had His churches in the World ever since and He has been with them all the time— and so it will be to the End of the Age.

 

[Salty]

Just one minor detail -
the church (opps - a church) did not begin until after the ascension of Jesus.

 

[Alan Gross]

Just one minor detail -
the church (opps - a church) did not begin until after the ascension of Jesus.

Since, I am not The Holy Spirit, as you of course know, whether you and your gathering there in New York should follow The Lord in Scriptural Baptism, by The Authority of God Given in The New Testament, and to become Organized as one of The Lord's churches, or not, I do not have the control.

That is Biblically very important and between you, 'your' gathering, if they are Led to be a church that Jesus Built, and The Holy Spirit.

He would Clue you in, on what a church is, and when His church began, if so.

Jesus began His church, as a Divinely Founded and Organized Organism and Organization, when He Called Out His Assembly, and began Building her out of the material John the Baptist had prepared for Him.

The material John prepared were Disciples who had received The New Birth, and had then been Scriptirally Baptised, by The Authority of God, by the one man who God Sent to Baptist.

John the Baptist had The Authority of God of Baptist, according to Jesus.

Jesus walked 40 miles or more to be Baptised by John, who had The Authority of God to Baptise.

The initial moment and The Time Fulfilled, for the beginning of Jesus', church, sir, is here:

Mark 1:15; “The time is fulfilled,” He said, “and the kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe in the gospel!”

16 "As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, He saw Simon and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the sea, for they were fishermen.

17 “Come, follow Me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.”

18" And at once they left their nets and followed Him."

Also:

Matthew 4:18-22;
Luke 5:1-11;
John 1:35-50.

Jesus Spoke to His assembled church in Corporate capacity, as an Organized 'entity' and PROMISED the BE WITH HIS CHURCHES, ALWAYS, AS A DIVINE INSTITUTION, when Jesus Revealed to HIS CHURCH ASSEMBLED THERE: “I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS.”

Jesus Came and Spake to them, as a Scripturally Baptised Divinely Organized Assembly,
saying,

“All Power is Given to Me
in Heaven and in Earth.
***
“Go therefore,
and teach all nations,
baptizing them
in the Name of the Father,
and of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost:
***
“teaching them
to observe all things
whatsoever
I have Commanded you:
***
and lo, I am with you Always,
even to the End of the World”
[Matthew 28:18-20].

Jesus "Promise to be with THEM, Always" was not to the Disciples, as human beings, because they would all soon be dead.

That Promise was not to any and all believers, anywhere.

In Matthew 18, Speaking of church Discipline, Jesus Said, "where two or more are GATHERED together (in what specific, Biblical, way?)" in My Name".

That is an Organized Assembly, in His Name.

Not just two people standing around that He is Instructing in church Discipline.

The Lord's churches handled disputes this way, later, and followed The Holy Spirit in selecting Officers, etc.

3,000 souls were added to the Lord's churches, at Pentecost.

But, during His Lifetime, Jesus Instituted The Lord's Supper and this Commission Jesus Made in Matthew 18 is to HIS CHURCHES, HE BUILT, and was Promising to Continue to Build and Edify, until He Comes Again,

and THEY have been here ever since.

The Great Commission was Given to Jesus' churches and they have carried it out, since He Commissioned her.

She is the women that fled into the wilderness.

 

[Salty]

Since I need to budget my time on important things
please do not expect any more replies from me

 

[Alan Gross]

Since I need to budget my time on important things
please do not expect any more replies from me

God Hears you.

 

[1689Dave]

I believe I was baptized by someone who was baptized by someone who was baptized ....and so on all the way back to someone who was baptized by the apostles or by a disciple of the time period. There might be interruptions in the chain I'm unaware of. But I believe in Baptists perpetuity in this manner.

But I cannot find visible institutional church concepts anywhere in the early the NT era. If you can provide visible institutional church concepts from the NT please do so.

 

[Alan Gross]

Well, first of all, you are asking, sir.

The belief and just plain occasion to happen to be aware that it is something that could be believed, with regard to 'having been baptized by someone who was baptized, etc.' , is a defined Biblical concept.

The idea that there could be interruptions in the chain are, of course, Historical, and whereas we could not possibly know, then, the Scripture Promises are Given for us to Trust that to be God's Design that He has Carried Out.

The Succession of baptism is less documented, but far more easily accomplished than Sussession of accual Organized church bodies.

A missionary may be sent out by Authority of a True church assembly, with Scriptural baptism, and not bare fruit, then return and find his 'mother' church killed off.

There is no 'church' IN THAT LOCATION "( Jesus may very well have plenty of others in existence, of course), then, where the missionary is, he has Scriptural baptism but no church body Organized.

He could then win converts and baptize them. They could Organize and chose a leader, and be a New Testament church of The Lord Jesus, by The Authority of God Contained in that initial Scriptural Baptism.

No 'church', or 'mother church' is required to give those assembled believers any approval, whatsoever, to Organize.

Those believers are self-governing.

...

The only New Testament concept of a 'church' is visable.

The New Testament, as well as, Old Testament Prophecy are saturated with an enormous number of Scriptures which discuss a HUGE BIBLE DOCTRINE, referred to as 'Church Truth'.

That Doctrine of Church Truth involves the various Scriptural Realities Taught concerning the Kind of church Jesus Founded in His Earthly Ministry that He called, "My church".

The word translated 'church', means a called-out assembly, in every instance that it is used in The New Testament and even when discribing 'civil called-out assemblies'.

While the 'visible New Testament concept' is the only one found in The New Testament, and, therefore, the only concept of a church of the Kind Jesus has had on Earth throughout History, the first place to look is at the word, 'church'.

Once, every usage of a word is examined that is contained in The Bible, we can arrive at its meaning.

I have found a new Herminutic here on the board of 'boasting about skipping what God Says in words, by NOT looking at that words other occurances and usage, to make up a man-made meaning' and that is just irrational.

I can write out the material from this reference. I already started to, elsewhere on the board, but found no interest, in response. Let me, A.) give you the link and B.) I will put that material into audio, with slides of the Scriptures written out.

This approach begins through a back door, verses your request, when it actually 'looks for' some other kind of man-made definition of 'church', and spells out the one and only Biblical New Testament Concept.

All other designations and Revelations with regard to the definition and references to The Churches Jesus Built will be forthcoming.

Like I said The Doctrine of Church Truth is Vast. This link clinches the concept of the word 'church', as God Intends 'church', in His Bible.

In Search Of The Universal, Invisible Church (Chapter 1) by Elder Milburn Cockrell - Sovereign Grace Landmark Baptist Pastor

 

[1689Dave]

Well, first of all, you are asking, sir.

The belief and just plain occasion to happen to be aware that it is something that could be believed, with regard to 'having been baptized by someone who was baptized, etc.' , is a defined Biblical concept.

The idea that there could be interruptions in the chain are, of course, Historical, and whereas we could not possibly know, then, the Scripture Promises are Given for us to Trust that to be God's Design that He has Carried Out.

The Succession of baptism is less documented, but far more easily accomplished than Sussession of accual Organized church bodies.

A missionary may be sent out by Authority of a True church assembly, with Scriptural baptism, and not bare fruit, then return and find his 'mother' church killed off.

There is no 'church' IN THAT LOCATION "( Jesus may very well have plenty of others in existence, of course), then, where the missionary is, he has Scriptural baptism but no church body Organized.

He could then win converts and baptize them. They could Organize and chose a leader, and be a New Testament church of The Lord Jesus, by The Authority of God Contained in that initial Scriptural Baptism.

No 'church', or 'mother church' is required to give those assembled believers any approval, whatsoever, to Organize.

Those believers are self-governing.

...

The only New Testament concept of a 'church' is visable.

The New Testament, as well as, Old Testament Prophecy are saturated with an enormous number of Scriptures which discuss a HUGE BIBLE DOCTRINE, referred to as 'Church Truth'.

That Doctrine of Church Truth involves the various Scriptural Realities Taught concerning the Kind of church Jesus Founded in His Earthly Ministry that He called, "My church".

The word translated 'church', means a called-out assembly, in every instance that it is used in The New Testament and even when discribing 'civil called-out assemblies'.

While the 'visible New Testament concept' is the only one found in The New Testament, and, therefore, the only concept of a church of the Kind Jesus has had on Earth throughout History, the first place to look is at the word, 'church'.

Once, every usage of a word is examined that is contained in The Bible, we can arrive at its meaning.

I have found a new Herminutic here on the board of 'boasting about skipping what God Says in words, by NOT looking at that words other occurances and usage, to make up a man-made meaning' and that is just irrational.

I can write out the material from this reference. I already started to, elsewhere on the board, but found no interest, in response. Let me, A.) give you the link and B.) I will put that material into audio, with slides of the Scriptures written out.

This approach begins through a back door, verses your request, when it actually 'looks for' some other kind of man-made definition of 'church', and spells out the one and only Biblical New Testament Concept.

All other designations and Revelations with regard to the definition and references to The Churches Jesus Built will be forthcoming.

Like I said The Doctrine of Church Truth is Vast. This link clinches the concept of the word 'church', as God Intends 'church', in His Bible.

In Search Of The Universal, Invisible Church (Chapter 1) by Elder Milburn Cockrell - Sovereign Grace Landmark Baptist Pastor

I would like to see the biblical proof of it. Would like to know more.

 

[Alan Gross]

As the late Br. Cockel said, there:

"In the New Testament the true and actual church is a local, visible body of baptized believers.

" A limited reading of the New Testament will prove that a church:

made disciples (Matt. 28:19),
baptized these disciples in water (Matt. 28:19),
and taught them what Christ commanded (Matt. 28:20).

A true New Testament church received members (Rom. 14:1),
elected officers (Acts 1:23; 6:5),
sent out missionaries (Acts 13:1-4), observed the Lord's Supper (I Cor. 11),
had regular and stated meetings (Acts 20:7; I Cor. 16:1-2),
settled disputes (Acts 15:1-41),
excluded the disorderly (I Cor. 5:9-13; II Thess. 3:14),
restored the penitent (II Cor. 2:1-10),
and condemned false doctrine (Rom. 16:17-18)."

I have a systemitised blog on Bible Doctrines, from Eternity Past to Eternity Future, with one Major Heading of 10, being about The Lord's churches.

First, this book by Roy Mason is a classic Introduction (among dozens on the subject, by others).

The Church that Jesus Built

 

[Alan Gross]

As the late Br. Cockel said, there:

"In the New Testament the true and actual church is a local, visible body of baptized believers.

" A limited reading of the New Testament will prove that a church:

made disciples (Matt. 28:19),
baptized these disciples in water (Matt. 28:19),
and taught them what Christ commanded (Matt. 28:20).

A true New Testament church received members (Rom. 14:1),
elected officers (Acts 1:23; 6:5),
sent out missionaries (Acts 13:1-4), observed the Lord's Supper (I Cor. 11),
had regular and stated meetings (Acts 20:7; I Cor. 16:1-2),
settled disputes (Acts 15:1-41),
excluded the disorderly (I Cor. 5:9-13; II Thess. 3:14),
restored the penitent (II Cor. 2:1-10),
and condemned false doctrine (Rom. 16:17-18)."

I have a systemitised blog on Bible Doctrines, from Eternity Past to Eternity Future, with one Major Heading of 10, being about The Lord's churches.

First, this book by Roy Mason is a classic Introduction (among dozens on the subject, by others).

The Church that Jesus Built

I would like to see the biblical proof of it. Would like to know more.

This is one of my blog posts with a download for Br. C. D. Cole's work
on The Kind of Churches Jesus Built
AND PROMISED TO BE WITH,
UNTIL HE COMES AGAIN.


( 8.1 ) The NEW TESTAMENT Definition of The CHURCHES that JESUS BUILT. | Aware of The Godhead

 

[1689Dave]

As the late Br. Cockel said, there:

"In the New Testament the true and actual church is a local, visible body of baptized believers.

" A limited reading of the New Testament will prove that a church:

made disciples (Matt. 28:19),
baptized these disciples in water (Matt. 28:19),
and taught them what Christ commanded (Matt. 28:20).

A true New Testament church received members (Rom. 14:1),
elected officers (Acts 1:23; 6:5),
sent out missionaries (Acts 13:1-4), observed the Lord's Supper (I Cor. 11),
had regular and stated meetings (Acts 20:7; I Cor. 16:1-2),
settled disputes (Acts 15:1-41),
excluded the disorderly (I Cor. 5:9-13; II Thess. 3:14),
restored the penitent (II Cor. 2:1-10),
and condemned false doctrine (Rom. 16:17-18)."

I have a systemitised blog on Bible Doctrines, from Eternity Past to Eternity Future, with one Major Heading of 10, being about The Lord's churches.

First, this book by Roy Mason is a classic Introduction (among dozens on the subject, by others).

The Church that Jesus Built

The best I can come up with so far is that the church is invisible until two or more meet in Jesus' name. And then returns to invisibility until the next meeting. The church = assembly in this case.

 

[Alan Gross]

The best I can come up with so far is that the church is invisible until two or more meet in Jesus' name. And then returns to invisibility until the next meeting. The church = assembly in this case.

Actually, 'in My Name' is Jesus Speaking about the Organized church-type, of which He has just Instructed regarding Church Discipline.

Any illusion or suggestion of the word 'church' having any existence in an 'invisible' misunderstanding is extra-Biblical.

I see what you mean, and this is how God goes about showing you what you have asked.

This is a VERY SPECIFIC ELIMENT within the Scriptural Organization Jesus Built, when they are Properly Structured.

Please, know there may be dozens of other such specific details that you may find you need answered from God's Word.

I will ask to be Enabled to Guild you to Jesus' churches.

...
When a soul is Saved, they Enter The Kingdom of God.

The Bible makes no reference or mention of anything having to do with a 'church', until that Saved Individual follows the Lord's Command to be baptized into the fellowship of One of His Organized called-out assembled, with which they become a member.

If I told you that The Holy Spirit is The Vigar of Christ and The Administrator of who He Leads to be Scripturally Baptized into One of The churches Jesus Built, you may get a heads up on "for by One Spirit", meaning, Biblically, "because of", "being Led", " Under the Governing, Guiding Unction" to BE WATER BAPTIZED INTO A CHURCH ASSEMBLY, OR "BODY".

 

[Alan Gross]

The best I can come up with so far is that the church is invisible until two or more meet in Jesus' name. And then returns to invisibility until the next meeting. The church = assembly in this case.

I never pay much attention to false interpretations and try to Teach a lot of the thousands of Absolute Positive Truths God has Revealed.

The mish-mash of strange twisted ideas advanced by now, once Satan has had 2,000 to influence the flesh of men and lost religious writers, etc., it is extrodinaryly what an evil web he has entrapped the World with.

You may not 'get' something, even if I think I am answering it.

So, please wade in and let God Show you all He Desires.

In a Passage, in a reply above to another poster, it includes, "Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4."Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

All Saved, again, are in Jesus' Kingdom, Overwhich He is Ruling, now.

To Sit at The Feet of Jesus, in humility, Will Allow Him to Break Bread with you regarding His churches.

Do this, if you will:

Pray and tell The Lord that IF THERE IS "ONE TRUE KIND OF CHURCH THAT HE IS IN THE MIDST OF AND HOLDS THE MINISTER ANGELS IN HIS RIGHT HAND, TODAY AND IN THE BIBLE, YOU WANT TO KNOW AND LOVE HIM AND SERVE HIM THERE."

 

[Alan Gross]

This type of Teaching is how plain the Biblical discussion of The Lord's churches can be.

( 8.5 ) The HISTORY of THE CHURCHES of The GODHEAD BODILY, which were FOUNDED and ORGANIZED by JESUS CHRIST and HAVE BEEN ON EARTH, since JESUS FOUNDED HER. | Aware of The Godhead

If I need to know what you mean by Bible proof, better, or more specific, try to get it through my head, please.

Being upset and rejecting is OK, if you need to buck against it, with what you have 'learned', previously, so The Lord can 'unlearn it', IF THAT IS SOMETHING NEEDED that actually exists..... and what I am sharing is so MONUMENTAL in THE REALM of SPIRITUAL REALITY.

...

Do you have a take on the circumstances surrounding your baptism you mentioned?

...

I will unearth the teachings I have from fine servants of God, regarding The Historical "Trail of Blood", left by The Lord's churches throughout History.