Baptist Pope Fans

[preachinjesus]

PIJ, Just curious, what would be your guessmation of the % of Roman Catholic who are truly born again?

What's the percent of folks who walk into any evangelical churhces on Sunday who are truly born again?

 

[preachinjesus]

How does what you are saying above fit in with these statements of yours from another thread? ...they seem to be contradictory.

How can you agree that the closer one gets to truly embracing RC soteriology, the less likely they are relying on Christ alone for salvation...but at the same time say they don't teach "anything except salvation by grace through faith."?

Being able to articulate and understand a soteriological position is not personal acceptance of that position.

One of the challenges that I would lay down for anyone here is to show us, all of us, the specific documents of Roman Catholic dogma related to their specific position on soteriology. One of the reasons I point this out is because I don't think we Baptists always understand the nuances of their, or other liturgical faiths', positions.

We Baptists think too Baptistically about soteriology. Often that hinders our ability to properly understand the role of salvific grace as maintained by sacramental grace. The Catholic view, well the primary view, is a highly developed synergistic understanding of salvation. The primary activator of salvation, in their view(s), is grace through faith which is maintained by communion with the Roman Church and reception of the seven sacraments through their lives. Thus grace through faith is still a primary function of the Roman Catholic soteriological system. Salvation comes from the atonement of Christ. Jesus is absolutely central to understanding soteriology in the RCC. Now, let's be honest, they include other aspects to their overall system which are unacceptable. Yet we can read their statements on dogma and find that grace and faith are vital to their soteriological system.

I don't agree with their system, but to the best of my knowledge I understand it. They are a historic Roman Catholic Church has been a massive missionary force across the past 1500 years or so. Like it or not, they have taken the Gospel to the ends of earth through their history. We can sit back and say that they are a bunch of pagans, idolaters, heretics, or even corrupt...but inevitably we must get back to their actual statements both historical and current and reconciling that through their Church Western Christianity was carried for at least 1000 years.

Finally, given the theological diversity within the RCC it seems difficult to say that their position, outside of their official documents, is set in one direction or another. Of the different RCC priests I know personally they each have a different view of soteriology.

So no, I don't think its a contradiction.

 

[preachinjesus]

The RCC is Biblically false and irrelevant. It doesn't matter how many supposed "good works" he does or what direction the RCC takes. It really doesn't matter at all.

You are definitely entitled to your opinion. :thumbs:

I will point out that though you've stated that the RCC violates parts of Scripture, you've not shown which parts. Just sayin...

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

You Have GOT To Be KIDDING.....

You are definitely entitled to your opinion. :thumbs:

I will point out that though you've stated that the RCC violates parts of Scripture, you've not shown which parts. Just sayin...

PiJ...You are a "professing" Baptist, a member of the "Baptist" Board and have been on here watching and participating in many if not all of these threads concerning the RCC and their unbiblical traditions and practices and you are REALLY...SERIOUSLY...asking me to tell you what violations of scripture the RCC commits...REALLY??
This stuff has been hashed and re-hashed on here so many times that it is completely REDUNDANT. Futhermore, if you aren't able to seperate what is true and what is false by now then you likely won't benefit from me posting it all ONE MORE TIME....so, NO, I'm not going to waste my time. If you want to know....GOOGLE it....or go down to the "All Other Christian Denominations" section of the Board and read all about it. It has been under intense discussion down there quite a bit....but I'm sure you already know that. While I'm definitely NOT recommending it....after reading some of your recent rebuttals of those of us here that call the Catholic stuff like we see it....IT is beginning to sound like you'd be equally as comfortable attending a Catholic Church as you would going to a Baptist one. I hope that ain't so! I know some dear people who are Catholic...and I love them and want them to find the truth...but they are theologically WRONG. They can most often be heard telling what the "traditions" of their church teach them to do but I have very rarely EVER heard them offer scripture to support their "works". This post has gone on waaaaay too long. I'm done!

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[saturneptune]

PiJ...You are a "professing" Baptist, a member of the "Baptist" Board and have been on here watching and participating in many if not all of these threads concerning the RCC and their unbiblical traditions and practices and you are REALLY...SERIOUSLY...asking me to tell you what violations of scripture the RCC commits...REALLY??
This stuff has been hashed and re-hashed on here so many times that it is completely REDUNDANT. Futhermore, if you aren't able to seperate what is true and what is false by now then you likely won't benefit from me posting it all ONE MORE TIME....so, NO, I'm not going to waste my time. If you want to know....GOOGLE it....or go down to the "All Other Christian Denominations" section of the Board and read all about it. It has been under intense discussion down there quite a bit....but I'm sure you already know that. While I'm definitely NOT recommending it....after reading some of your recent rebuttals of those of us here that call the Catholic stuff like we see it....IT is beginning to sound like you'd be equally as comfortable attending a Catholic Church as you would going to a Baptist one. I hope that ain't so! I know some dear people who are Catholic...and I love them and want them to find the truth...but they are theologically WRONG. They can most often be heard telling what the "traditions" of their church teach them to do but I have very rarely EVER heard them offer scripture to support their "works". This post has gone on waaaaay too long. I'm done!

Bro.Greg:saint:

We have been through this before, but Baptist Board is much more tolerant of Catholic myths than a Catholic board would be of Scriptural truth. Catholics believe all non Catholics are headed for hell, whereas our standard has nothing to do with denominational lines, but faith in Jesus Christ.

Can anyone imagine when a new President of the SBC is elected, church members holding their hands up in the air and shouting "papa, papa?" Actually, there is no difference between a Catholic mass and a David Copperfield performance.

The Lord tells us to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. The RCC goes through the motions of a worship service in works and false doctrine.

Roman Catholic church has a prohibition against birth control. Such is as anti-Biblical as it is hypocritical. This prohibition is again based upon an incomplete definition of the purpose of marriage. Hypocritically, the Roman Catholic church actually teaches birth control is OK, as long as it involves nothing artificial like condoms, pills etc. The average Roman Catholic married woman is instructed to use the rhythm method where she takes her body temperature to determine the day she ovulates. Then she avoids sex for two days before and after her ovulation day. But this is not only hypocritical double talk, since birth control is the act of having sex without the desire for children, it contradicts the entire foundation upon which the Roman Catholic church forbade birth control in the first place: There are only two purposes of marriage. Since the Pope teaches the only time you can have sex is to make children, then the only time a Catholic woman could have sex, is during her "three fertile days" of the month. The Roman Catholic position on birth control is shown to be silly and outrageous because Catholic "pew dwellers" generally ignore such man made rules from leaders, who themselves are not married. But if a Catholic did follow the teaching of the Pope, then she would use the thermometer to determine when she ovulates and have sex only during that fertile 4 day window.

The Pope only defines two purposes of marriage, leaving out the third in the list below:

Offspring: "be fruitful and multiply" (Gen 1:28)
Companionship: "It is not good for the man to be alone" (Gen 2: 18)

The Bible has three purposes of Marriage:

Offspring: "be fruitful and multiply" (Gen 1:28)
Companionship: "It is not good for the man to be alone" (Gen 2: 18)
Sexual satisfaction independent of the desire for children: "because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife", "it is better to marry than to burn with passion" 1 Corinthians 7:1-5,9

By ignoring what scripture says about one of the purposes of marriage being to alleviate sexual lust, the Pope has done damage to the institution of marriage. Remember, it wasn't until about 1070 AD that Catholic priests were first officially forbidden to be married. That's 1000 years too late to be part of Bible Christianity.

In fact the Holy Spirit prophesied this apostasy: "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. " 1 Timothy 4:1-3

In fact the Bible specifically commands that Bishops/Elders be married:

"It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. " 1 Timothy 3:1-7

Most of the sexual abuse problems within the Catholic church could have been prevented if they had not adopted the false doctrine that church leaders cannot be married. Orthodox leaders have always been allowed to be married and the statistical facts speak for themselves: Sex abuse scandals are dramatically reduced when church leaders are permitted to marry.

 

[Mexdeaf]

What's the percent of folks who walk into any evangelical churhces on Sunday who are truly born again?

Less than 50%

 

[saturneptune]

What's the percent of folks who walk into any evangelical churhces on Sunday who are truly born again?

From my flawed human observation, I would say 28-32%. That is based to the numbers on a church roll. I do think that percentage goes up as one bases it on regular attendance, participation in church ministries, visitation, prayer, and Bible study.

How many saved people are there in the United States of about 300 million? I would say 50 million is a high number.

 

[pinoybaptist]

....... I wonder what Rick Warrens reason is?

Book sales ?:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Jedi Knight]

Damnable heresies.....the new tolerance?

 

[Baptist4life]

To catholics I say with love, read the Bible. Compare and contrast your church canons with the word of God. If you do this with an open heart and mind, I cannot believe you can truly embrace the RCC.


To those of you who are Christians and yet support/defend the RCC.......I believe you are speaking out of ignorance as to exactly what the RCC teaches, or else I cannot comprehend how you could support it.

I continue to be shocked and saddened by the acceptance/defense of the RCC on a BAPTIST forum!

I'll say no more.

 

[Bro. James]

Yes, I too am saddened; but not really shocked. There are apparently a sizeable number of nominal Baptists out there who think Baptists came from the Protestant Reformation. They seem to have no knowledge of the heritage of True Baptists and their contention for the Faith once for all delivered to the Saints, Jude 3.

This is all fulfillment of scripture: apostasy and love grown cold.

We are also in the throes of ecumenism. The daughters of Rome are headed back to their mother. True Baptists have never bowed to Rome. They never will.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Baptist4life]

Yes, I too am saddened; but not really shocked. There are apparently a sizeable number of nominal Baptists out there who think Baptists came from the Protestant Reformation. They seem to have no knowledge of the heritage of True Baptists and their contention for the Faith once for all delivered to the Saints, Jude 3.

This is all fulfillment of scripture: apostasy and love grown cold.

We are also in the throes of ecumenism. The daughters of Rome are headed back to their mother. True Baptists have never bowed to Rome. They never will.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Amen! :thumbs:

 

[saturneptune]

This Takes the Cake

This is a picture that some devout Catholics think actually happened and the photo is real, Mary hugging the Pope. Unbelieveable!!!

http://www.turnbacktogod.com/mother-mary-holding-john-paul-ii-in-her-arms-when-he-was-shot/

 

[saturneptune]

Jesus Christ and His Words are always true. He said that He would preserve His New Testement Church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. The very idea that the RCC is the one true church and outside it there is no salvation is probably the greatest deception of all human history. Common sense says that from the time of the Ascension, until at least the Reformation, that churches outside the RCC were preserving the church through the power of Jesus Christ. Who those entitites were is subject to debate and another thread, but surfice to say, it was certainly not the Roman Catholic Church. Even if one ignores their warped, magic act theology, the church infrastructure from the beginning has been welded to the corrupt political and worldly institution of the day.

One could easily conclude that not only is the RCC not the preserved NT church, they more resemble the gates of hell, or if there is a central point, the Vatican.

The model of the NT church is quite clear in Scripture. There are hundreds of denominations and thousands of sects. While some of the Protestant denominations certainly come closer than the RCC, or the other Orthodox branches, I believe the Baptist fundamentals to come as close as we are going to get. If I did not believe that, I would not be a Baptist. I believe that the entities that did preserve the NT church for 1500 years are very similar to the local, autonomous NT church of today.

Paul wrote against Gnostics, false teachers, and works Gospel, and did not mince words. Jesus Christ reenforces the message about a NT church after His heart in the first three chapters of Revelation.

Yes, we can debate communion open or closed, end times theories, dos and donts, but never, never the essence of the Gospel, grace through faith only in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. No compromise in the virgin birth, the fact that Jesus is God in all aspects, that He lead a sinless life, and that His church is preserved. No debate that the Word of God is perfect, Inspired and inerent.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Thank You Bro.James

Yes, I too am saddened; but not really shocked. There are apparently a sizeable number of nominal Baptists out there who think Baptists came from the Protestant Reformation. They seem to have no knowledge of the heritage of True Baptists and their contention for the Faith once for all delivered to the Saints, Jude 3.

This is all fulfillment of scripture: apostasy and love grown cold.

We are also in the throes of ecumenism. The daughters of Rome are headed back to their mother. True Baptists have never bowed to Rome. They never will.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Bro. James....let it be known that I share the exact same sentiments and convictions on this matter. Thank you for your clear and Biblical stand.

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Yes, I too am saddened; but not really shocked. There are apparently a sizeable number of nominal Baptists out there who think Baptists came from the Protestant Reformation. They seem to have no knowledge of the heritage of True Baptists and their contention for the Faith once for all delivered to the Saints, Jude 3.

This is all fulfillment of scripture: apostasy and love grown cold.

We are also in the throes of ecumenism. The daughters of Rome are headed back to their mother. True Baptists have never bowed to Rome. They never will.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

So, you call Baptists who believe that Baptists came out of the Protestant Reformation nominal Baptists. That is an insult to all Baptists who don't believe as you do.

 

[Crabtownboy]

So, you call Baptists who believe that Baptists came out of the Protestant Reformation nominal Baptists. That is an insult to all Baptists who don't believe as you do.

I am no longer surprised about people who are so insecure in their faith that they condemn anyone who does not agree with every jot or tiddle of the person's beliefs.

You are right. The statement was shallow and an insult of all Baptist who do not agree with him.

Wishing the pope well does not mean that person worships the pope. The pope influences so many people around the world that to wish him well seem the only logical, Christian thing to do. After all wishing him well may include his coming to the point where he agrees with ME.

 

[Bro. James]

Ecumenism is alive and well on planet earth. Reformed apostasy is still apostasy reformed.

We are told not to bid apostasy "godspeed"--we become guilty of the same errors.

One needs a tough skin to navigate the blogwars. I do not apologize for stating what I believe. No insults are intended.

Jesus was not an ecumenist. In fact He called established religions vipers and blind guides, as well as thieves and robbers.

Jesus said He would preserve His Bride through the end of the age. He has kept His promise. He is faithful even when we are unfaithful.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[saturneptune]

So, you call Baptists who believe that Baptists came out of the Protestant Reformation nominal Baptists. That is an insult to all Baptists who don't believe as you do.

I agree with you on this point. Whether or not Baptists came out of the Reformation or not does not matter. It is how the Baptist faith distances itself from Rome today. Everyone can say what they want, the Reformation is a big improvement over the RCC.

 

[Arbo]

So, you call Baptists who believe that Baptists came out of the Protestant Reformation nominal Baptists. That is an insult to all Baptists who don't believe as you do.

Agree. To deem a Baptist who is mistaken about his denomination's history as having a lesser comittment to Christ is absurd.