I'm neither a proponent nor a defender of D&D. In fact, when my kids were younger one of their classmates wanted to start a weekly game day for D&D and my kids declined. That's when I first heard about it. I'm neutral and am looking for answers.
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Baptist Preacher Exorcises Demons From Dungeons and Dragon Users--Past & Future
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I'm neither a proponent nor a defender of D&D. In fact, when my kids were younger one of their classmates wanted to start a weekly game day for D&D and my kids declined. That's when I first heard about it. I'm neutral and am looking for answers.
Calypsis4
Member
O.K, I will have to do some digging. I haven't seen those articles in maybe 15 years though.
Let me start off by something recently as posted by an apparently avid fan who encountered some serious problems with those he played with.
http://failforward.co.uk/post/93348768153/how-dungeons-and-dragons-is-endorsing-the-darkest
That's just a couple of examples of some messed up minds by those affected by D & D obessessions. I've never once heard of anything like that affecting people playing truly Christian games.
Then there is: http://www.inplainsite.org/html/dungeons_and_dragons.html
Be sure and read the section on 'Blurred reality'.
Best wishes.
Article is about a game developer that was brought in to work on the 5th edition of D&D and turned out to be a sexist stalker of D&D forums. Sorry, not seeing any demonic influence or insanity being caused by the game. Just an obnoxious jerk.
In the article at the link there is the account in the section "Blurred Reality" about a person so caught up in "Left Behind" that she prayed for one of the characters. The article also talks about people that play D&D so much that they start slipping at school, or when one of their characters die they are shocked.
So far, I'm not seeing demonic influence here.
Calypsis4
Member
And you fail to see that such persistant obnoxious attitudes are demonic?
Did you read the entire article? Just curious.
But I did manage to find part of what I alluded to earlier:
From the Traverse City Record Eagle from the mid 1980's.
But so you can see the vital part, I folded the article to reveal facts about the game as recognized even by those who are not Christian:
The copy may be too small for you to read so I will type it out for you, "One dungeonmaster, John Eric Holmes, a Los Angeles physician wrote in Psychology Today about the violent aspect of the game."The level of violence in the make-believe game runs high,: he wrote. "There is hardly a game in which the players do not indulge in murder, arson, torture, rape, or highway robbery." That's quite an admission for one who liked and played the game regularly.
But how does that comport with Pauls admonition: Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
The Bible says we are to bring EVERY thought into captivity and every imagination. How does one do that while concentrating on murder, rape, & torture?
I will look for more articles buried in my old files just because you asked me to. I can't promise it's all there because I haven't looked there in so many years.
I do. I see them as persistent obnoxious behavior. Demons need not be involved.
Yes.
But I did manage to find part of what I alluded to earlier:
From the Traverse City Record Eagle from the mid 1980's.
But so you can see the vital part, I folded the article to reveal facts about the game as recognized even by those who are not Christian:
The copy may be too small for you to read so I will type it out for you, "One dungeonmaster, John Eric Holmes, a Los Angeles physician wrote in Psychology Today about the violent aspect of the game."The level of violence in the make-believe game runs high,: he wrote. "There is hardly a game in which the players do not indulge in murder, arson, torture, rape, or highway robbery." That's quite an admission for one who liked and played the game regularly.
But how does that comport with Pauls admonition: Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
The Bible says we are to bring EVERY thought into captivity and every imagination. How does one do that while concentrating on murder, rape, & torture?
I will look for more articles buried in my old files just because you asked me to. I can't promise it's all there because I haven't looked there in so many years.
I can't comment on the level and frequency of murder, rape, etc. in the game because I've never played it.
Years ago I knew a lot of people who played DandD. It was too geeky for me but I did listen to them talk about their sessions. Yes, there was a lot of killing of monsters, of characters, etc. But, I don't remember rape and other darker things. Seems to me that most play the game without any problems. Many I knew displayed geeky behavior but never demonic behavior. Evidently, there are some who have trouble separating fantasy from reality. And, whether is is DandD or some other role playing game they are going to have problems. They are going to be demonically influenced or just plain nutts whether through playing DandD, video games, or just walking down the street. To place the entire genre on the demon watch list because of a the actions of a small minority is problematic.
Calypsis4
Member
I don't know how in the world I forgot about this one, but then it was a long time ago. From Michigan City, Indiana, 1984:
Here is a close-up of the important part:
Brothers Eric and John Witte conspired with their mother to murder their grandmother so they could cash her S.S. checks. During a game of Dungeons and Dragons John was ordered by his mother to take a crossbow upstairs and shoot her mother. John, an expert archer owned both bows and a crossbow. Like a zombie with no will of his own he obeyed and shot the poor old woman right through the heart as she slept in her bed. But they had to get rid of the body so they chopped up grandma and packed her in white paper like she was so many pieces of meat and they stored her in the freezer.
I was more than horrified by this. I was stunned because I know of this matter intimately for the Witte family attended our church in Indiana for many years and both boys rode my bus to church after the family quit coming to worship. Eric was in my sixth grade class at the Christian school where I taught. Their mother was truly a 'witchy' person and resisted every good thing we tried to do for her spiritually. Nonetheless, it was a total shock to hear what happened to them for I have been in the Witte home many times and I thought I was a friend of the family. But their dad, Paul Witte suddenly got violent with me one evening for no apparent reason and that was my last visit.
A few years later Eric, my former student, shot his father right through the head with a rifle while Paul was sleeping on the couch. He claimed that he tripped over a throw-rug and it was an accident. But they re-opened the case after the murder of his grandmother.
So it was not at all surprising to me to discover that some of the people I have counseled over the last 27 years were demonized by the influence of Dungeons and Dragons. I have no sympathy for the game.
Here is a close-up of the important part:
Brothers Eric and John Witte conspired with their mother to murder their grandmother so they could cash her S.S. checks. During a game of Dungeons and Dragons John was ordered by his mother to take a crossbow upstairs and shoot her mother. John, an expert archer owned both bows and a crossbow. Like a zombie with no will of his own he obeyed and shot the poor old woman right through the heart as she slept in her bed. But they had to get rid of the body so they chopped up grandma and packed her in white paper like she was so many pieces of meat and they stored her in the freezer.
I was more than horrified by this. I was stunned because I know of this matter intimately for the Witte family attended our church in Indiana for many years and both boys rode my bus to church after the family quit coming to worship. Eric was in my sixth grade class at the Christian school where I taught. Their mother was truly a 'witchy' person and resisted every good thing we tried to do for her spiritually. Nonetheless, it was a total shock to hear what happened to them for I have been in the Witte home many times and I thought I was a friend of the family. But their dad, Paul Witte suddenly got violent with me one evening for no apparent reason and that was my last visit.
A few years later Eric, my former student, shot his father right through the head with a rifle while Paul was sleeping on the couch. He claimed that he tripped over a throw-rug and it was an accident. But they re-opened the case after the murder of his grandmother.
So it was not at all surprising to me to discover that some of the people I have counseled over the last 27 years were demonized by the influence of Dungeons and Dragons. I have no sympathy for the game.
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And this is all that needs to be said.
Calypsis4
Member
That isn't true. I have already stated that I have counseled people who were demonized by their involvement in D & D. I have given details as to the power of what those devils can do.
Yet are you telling me that the rape, torture, and murder which is very much a part of what the players get involved in IS NOT connected to the Witte boy who murdered his grandmother with a crossbow? That is a very naive position friend.
How does one keep every thought in obedience to Christ while feasting his mind on such attitude and behavior? Please answer this point if nothing else.
Did you see what one of my counterparts said above in answer to my statement:
His reply:
Hey, I rest my case as far as he is concerned.
Let's see some more of those 'other characters';
If that winged fellow is not a fallen angel, I'll eat my hat. Do you know what the Baphomet monster really is? Satan himself. The demon basilisk appeared in a Harry Potter movie just as about 25 more of the 'monsters' in D & D have appeared in popular movies and other games. Did they all decide to borrow from Gary Gygax's game (without permission) or are we merely seeing the tip of the iceberg of Satan's kingdom expressing itself visibly in our deteriorating society which is now very near the end of the world and the 2nd coming of Christ? I vote 'yes' to the latter.
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So we move from D&D as a source to Harry Potter. Good grief.
Bub when I was a kid I played D&D for years. Had tons of money invested in it as well as hours. You cannot tell me anything about it I do not already know. Your attribution to all the demonic activity is out in left field. Take your charismatic blinders off and actually take a look at scripture. Why is is Charismatics struggle to understand scripture clearly I have no idea.
Have you ever been diagnosed with a mental disorder?
Satan must have a really great agent! Can you put me in touch? I want to be in the movies too!
Calypsis4
Member
Trust me, my question was very serious.
PreachTony
Active Member
You've already decided in your mind that anything to do with D&D is demonic and no amount of information from people here who have played the game and know the rules will convince you otherwise. I would almost bet (if I were a betting man) that for every one person you claimed to have known who was demon possessed because of D&D there are hundred if not thousands or more who have no problems whatsoever. I have played before with a group of friends, all of whom are active in their churches and love the Lord. It's just a game. If D&D is so awful, then every game should be out, because there is undoubtedly something non-Christian about every game out there.
Monopoly? Yeah, it teaches greed and envy, which are wrong.
Settlers of Catan? Greed, ripping people off in trade, monopolizing economies.
Diplomacy? Backstabbing, war, murder.
Super Mario Bros.? Mass murder (of enemy races), greed (coin collecting). Super Mario Bros 3 (NES) allows you the perverse pleasure of snuffing out Bowser's family before you get to him.
The Legend of Zelda? Magic, black magic, witchcraft, greed, murder, malice.
I guess we should take away toys and games from our children. It might be the only way to save them from a lifestyle of debauchery and depression.
If you would listen to the people telling you they play the game, you might learn something. I've played the game off and on for years. Never once have I come across a game situation involving rape. Often the "torture" is being done by a villain that the hero characters must defeat. Yeah, murder happens, but typically it is a plot device and not just a character deciding to randomly kill someone.
As to the Witte boy...what else was he involved in? You've grabbed a single throwaway line from the story and pegged it as the cause. But it sounds like his mother is the one who came up with the plan. To cast D&D as the cause simply shows you have an agenda against D&D. What if they were playing video games like Call of Duty? Would you blame the video game? At what point was the boy himself responsible for his actions?
The name Baphomet isn't even recognized in history until nearly 1100AD. It went through a few iterations over the next 200 years until the Knights Templar were accused of worshiping Baphometh as part of their persecution under King Phillip IV in 1307. Baphomet isn't portrayed as the devilish goat figure until the 19th century.
In fact, you'll find several modern scholars recognizing "Baphomet" as an old French corruption of the name Muhammed. Not exactly reaching to the depths of Hell to yank up that name, are they?
"The demon Basilisk?" So now ancient mythological creatures are demons? Are unicorns demons, too?
Calypsis4
Member
That goes for anyone that gets involved in that wretched game. If you think that the Holy Spirit leads you to get involved in such things that involve rape, torture, murder, and other mayhem then you are truly deceived...willfully.
Oh? Then check out their dreams. Check out their compulsions. Check out their obsessions. Check out habits that did not exist before they played the game. Check out their general attitude. Some of these things, if not all of them will eventually manifest in the behavior and attitude of those who play it. This is what counselors like myself learn in the lives of practitioners who come to them for help.
You're right about most of them. But I realize you are being sarcastic in your attitude about it. Yet, why not focus your mind on things like Pilgrims Progress and the games that have been made associated with it? Why not good Christian movies? Why not good books like Ben Hur, Moby Dick, and other great classics. Why not games that do NOT contain rape, robbery, nudity, torture, and mayhem? They are out there if one is willing to take the time to search.
And you might learn something if you would just open your eyes, humble yourself, and admit you are involved in darkness whenever you play that evil game.
How obvious does the devil have to make it before you catch on that you mentally opened the doors to his kingdom of darkness? It's not like he didn't make it obvious.
Really? So then was the California psychologist and avid fan of D & D lying to us about the rape? I assume you read his statements that I quoted above.
And yet, as I pointed out to our solider friend other monsters are used to destroy the 'bad' monsters. Riiiiiight! :thumbsup:
Typically? But not always. Do you think I am not paying attention to details? I have been collecting the details of the evils of that role playing game since the 1980's. You've already read some of them.
What gives you the scriptural right to set your mind on murder for pleasure and relaxation for even one second? As the Bible teaches....'think on these (good, pure, etc) things' Philippians 4:8.
For the rest of what you said you are just making excuses. Can't you find a better way to spend your time than to waste it on stuff like that? Can't you find something that honors the Lord in which you are not focusing all of your attention on yourself?
Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. I Corinth. 10:31.
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