Baptist Bible Believer
New Member
It is speaking about being separated from CHRIST. It's not going to happen.
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Baptist Purgatory
- Thread starter Bartimaeus
- Start date
Baptist Bible Believer
New Member
What I am seeing here - and this is only on the basis of the one post that I made - however a cursory reading of the thread bears this out - that the ME's are manipulating Scripture to fit their doctrinal views. The phrase, "willfully ignorant" comes to mind.
DeafPosttrib
New Member
No, I do not wrestle with God's Word. I am 100% agree with 1 Thess. 4:13-18, I have no problem with this passage. This passage does not discuss about sin, this passage talks about Christ's promise to us, that we all shall see our love ones again, and we shall ever with the Lord forever and ever at Christ's coming.
All faithful servants shall be caught up to meet Christ, and shall be ever with the Lord forever and ever.
The context of Romans 8:35-39 does not discuss about the list of sin. This passage talking about God's LOVE, no matter what kinds of situations, we facing, still God love us all the times. Even, God love all sinners of the world - John 3:16; Romans 5:8; Mark 10:21.
Every situations cannot separate from the love of God toward us.
Understand, God is long-suffering toward us, that He does not want us go perish, but come to repentance - 2 Peter 3:9.
It is true that the love of God cannot separate from us. But in Isa. 59:2 says, "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."
God does not hate sinners, but hate sin. God does not hate gays or lesbians, but God hate their actions of wicked. The point is God love all souls, that God does not want all souls go to hell, but want all souls come to repentance - 2 Peter 3:9.
Hosea 9:15 "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their DOINGS I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more all their princes are revolters."
Romans 8:35-39 say nothing about the list of sin. This passage talking about everything of the situations that we are facing, these cannot separate from God's love toward us.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
All faithful servants shall be caught up to meet Christ, and shall be ever with the Lord forever and ever.
The context of Romans 8:35-39 does not discuss about the list of sin. This passage talking about God's LOVE, no matter what kinds of situations, we facing, still God love us all the times. Even, God love all sinners of the world - John 3:16; Romans 5:8; Mark 10:21.
Every situations cannot separate from the love of God toward us.
Understand, God is long-suffering toward us, that He does not want us go perish, but come to repentance - 2 Peter 3:9.
It is true that the love of God cannot separate from us. But in Isa. 59:2 says, "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."
God does not hate sinners, but hate sin. God does not hate gays or lesbians, but God hate their actions of wicked. The point is God love all souls, that God does not want all souls go to hell, but want all souls come to repentance - 2 Peter 3:9.
Hosea 9:15 "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their DOINGS I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more all their princes are revolters."
Romans 8:35-39 say nothing about the list of sin. This passage talking about everything of the situations that we are facing, these cannot separate from God's love toward us.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
DPT;
You are SOOOO right!
I think, on this subject, we are no so far apart!
Here is the difference between us;
You think the unfaithful will lose their salvation altogether.
We believe the unfaithful will lose their entrance to the Kingdom, but CANNOT lose their salvation.
In BOTH schemes, the unfaithful have something to fear and ought to repent and get right with God and STAY right with God.
In that statement, HOW is THAT heresy? Get right, stay right, or face and VERY displeased Father.
In HIS service;
Jim
You are SOOOO right!
I think, on this subject, we are no so far apart!
Here is the difference between us;
You think the unfaithful will lose their salvation altogether.
We believe the unfaithful will lose their entrance to the Kingdom, but CANNOT lose their salvation.
In BOTH schemes, the unfaithful have something to fear and ought to repent and get right with God and STAY right with God.
In that statement, HOW is THAT heresy? Get right, stay right, or face and VERY displeased Father.
In HIS service;
Jim
James_Newman
New Member
It is speaking about being separated from CHRIST. It's not going to happen. </font>[/QUOTE]Romans 8
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Jonah 2
2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
James_Newman
New Member
Praise God that we can openly discuss these things today. I fear it may not always be so.
Lacy Evans
New Member
Not all who beileve in ME teach that the unfaithful spend 1000 years in Hell. (I do.) As I have said, the doctrine does not stand or fall there.
It is very questionable that all believers make the rapture.
Lu 21:36 -
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
This verse and others clearly show the conditional aspects of the rapture. (Why watch? Why pray? Why the need to be accounted worthy?)
This would be another thread but suffice it to say that your point is highly debatable.
Why would chastening "separate" us from God? I was always pretty close to my Daddy when he was whipping me. If chastening in this life does not separate us , then why do you insist that it seperates us at the JSOC?
Ps 139:8 -
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
If being disfellowshipped, turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh, Killed, or made sick, do not "separate" us, then why would exclusion from the Kingdom reign.
Esau's inheritance was taken away and given to another. Was he "separated", or was he still a son? Moses failed to enter Caanan. Did that separation cancel out the passover lamb's free gift? Of course not, nevertheless they suffered loss.
Lacy
DeafPosttrib
New Member
'Kingdom' never so called, 'millennial kingdom' or 'a thousand years' in the Bible. 'Kingdom of God/heaven' is speak of God's things and eternity kingdom also, it is speak of salvation and our future destiny include salvation. John 3:3 & 7 explain more clear about the kingdom of heaven. Christ tells us, that we MUST be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven, OR, we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. That mean, we must repent our sins, to have eternal life (context with John 3:16), or, if we do not repent of sins, then cannot have eternal life, but the wrath of God abide on us (context with John 3:36).
Psalms 139:8 do nothing with salvation. It speaks of God is an omnipresence means God is everywhere same time, where we are, God knows where we are, we cannot hide from God's sight.
Jonah 2:2,3,8 - talk about Jonah's prayer and confess toward God while he was in whale's belly. God can listen only to aperson's serious prayer with repent and confess. Jonah 2:2,3,8 have do nothing with security salvation.
Lacy, you mentioned on Luke 21:36. You say,
Yes of course, Luke 21:36 speaks of conditional very clear. Not only on rapture. Also, warning us about the judgement day. Christ warns us, IF we do not watch and pray, then we shall face these things, and shall stand face before Christ sits on the throne. That means, if we do not watch and pray, then no way that we can escape from these things, and we all shall face the serious consequence at the judgment seat of Christ at His coming.
Rev. 2:5 warns, "Remember therefore from whence thou are fallen, and REPENT, and do the first works, OR else I will come unto thee quickly, and will REMOVE THY CANDLESTICK OUT OF HIS PLACE, except thou REPENT." Christ warns us if we remain in sins without repent by the time Christ comes as thief in the night that we not watch for, He shall come upon us quickly as thief, and shall remove us OUT OF HIS PLACE(kingdom of God/heaven), means will cast us away into everlasting punishment.
Rev. 3:2-3 warn, "Be WATCHFUL, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and HOLD FAST, and REPENT. IF therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Christ warns us, IF we do not watch, and remain in sinning without repentance by the time Lord comes suddenly that we do not expect, Christ shall come upon us as a thief.
Matt. 24:37-41; Luke 17:34-37 warn us, the lesson of the flood, when the flood came and suddenly took them away - all drowned dead. So, this shall be same at Christ's coming shall be when He comes, he shall send his angels to grab all unjust people who are not watch and remain in sinning away up in the air. And shall face Christ sits on the throne, then will send all unjust away into the everlasting fire according Matt. 25:31-46. That means, IF we do not watch and be ready, we shall be cast away join with sinners will suffer in the lake of fire.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Psalms 139:8 do nothing with salvation. It speaks of God is an omnipresence means God is everywhere same time, where we are, God knows where we are, we cannot hide from God's sight.
Jonah 2:2,3,8 - talk about Jonah's prayer and confess toward God while he was in whale's belly. God can listen only to aperson's serious prayer with repent and confess. Jonah 2:2,3,8 have do nothing with security salvation.
Lacy, you mentioned on Luke 21:36. You say,
Your comment of Luke 21:36 is type of partial rapturism. I disagree with partial rapturism. That is come from Watchman Nee.
Yes of course, Luke 21:36 speaks of conditional very clear. Not only on rapture. Also, warning us about the judgement day. Christ warns us, IF we do not watch and pray, then we shall face these things, and shall stand face before Christ sits on the throne. That means, if we do not watch and pray, then no way that we can escape from these things, and we all shall face the serious consequence at the judgment seat of Christ at His coming.
Rev. 2:5 warns, "Remember therefore from whence thou are fallen, and REPENT, and do the first works, OR else I will come unto thee quickly, and will REMOVE THY CANDLESTICK OUT OF HIS PLACE, except thou REPENT." Christ warns us if we remain in sins without repent by the time Christ comes as thief in the night that we not watch for, He shall come upon us quickly as thief, and shall remove us OUT OF HIS PLACE(kingdom of God/heaven), means will cast us away into everlasting punishment.
Rev. 3:2-3 warn, "Be WATCHFUL, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and HOLD FAST, and REPENT. IF therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Christ warns us, IF we do not watch, and remain in sinning without repentance by the time Lord comes suddenly that we do not expect, Christ shall come upon us as a thief.
Matt. 24:37-41; Luke 17:34-37 warn us, the lesson of the flood, when the flood came and suddenly took them away - all drowned dead. So, this shall be same at Christ's coming shall be when He comes, he shall send his angels to grab all unjust people who are not watch and remain in sinning away up in the air. And shall face Christ sits on the throne, then will send all unjust away into the everlasting fire according Matt. 25:31-46. That means, IF we do not watch and be ready, we shall be cast away join with sinners will suffer in the lake of fire.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
DeafPosttrib
New Member
I forget to add one thing to tell you. You discuss word, 'chasten' means "separated". Hebrews chapter 12 does not discuss about millennial exlcusion. It discuss about God is discipling with us, to rebuke us, to do the right thing. Chastening is deal with our living life, not beyond after our death.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Lacy Evans
New Member
Lu 12:46 -
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Is "portion" the same as "all"?
Lacy
DeafPosttrib
New Member
I would like to show you a verse telling us very clear on conditional.
"Blessed are they that DO his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
This is speak of keeping the commandments, shall enter New Jerusalem - eternal life. This is not speak of so called, "Millennial Kingdom", because earlier in chapter 22 already discuss new heaven and a new earth, even include New Jerusalem descend from heaven land on a new earth is a future eternality state that we shall dwell there, unless IF we keep and obey his commandments. OR.... if we do not keep and obey his commandments, then we cannot enter New Jerualem, where we shall spend? In the lake of fire!!!! Rev. 22:14 tells us very clear of conditional warning. No way that we can ignore it.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
"Blessed are they that DO his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
This is speak of keeping the commandments, shall enter New Jerusalem - eternal life. This is not speak of so called, "Millennial Kingdom", because earlier in chapter 22 already discuss new heaven and a new earth, even include New Jerusalem descend from heaven land on a new earth is a future eternality state that we shall dwell there, unless IF we keep and obey his commandments. OR.... if we do not keep and obey his commandments, then we cannot enter New Jerualem, where we shall spend? In the lake of fire!!!! Rev. 22:14 tells us very clear of conditional warning. No way that we can ignore it.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
carlaimpinge
New Member
Lacy,Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
PS. Tell RJ that my big brother can whup his big brother any time![/qb]
Your big brother (champion?) emailed me last night. I wrote him back. It's contained on my site.
Good day.
In Christ Jesus,
Carl
James_Newman
New Member
I have reviewed your review of his review of your review. More of the same. 2 thumbs down.
I don't understand why you believe God would perfectly preserve in English a book that was only meant for Jews.
I don't understand why you believe God would perfectly preserve in English a book that was only meant for Jews.
Lacy Evans
New Member
I'm sure it is absolutey riveting.
zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Lacy
This is off the subject.
Lacy, James, et.al...
I am also wondering if ANY "Baptist pastor" EVER spoke/wrote like Ruckman BEFORE Ruckman came along. Anybody know of one? Can you produce his writings if it is so?
Seems like we are dealing with a "Ruckman clone" here, and it is about as useless conversing with him as it would be to speak to a wall brethren.
I have surveyed the man's (Carl's) "website" and am intrigued by the Middle ages RCC similarities. Same venom. Same vitriol. Same arrogance. Same speaking "as the Lord". Same everything, excluding perhaps the burning of believers for conscience sake. They spue forth the same junk willy-nilly upon anybody who is not of "their stripe" or their "learning". Sad. Truly sad. Ol' Doc Ruckman has indeed polluted the name of Christ. I am sorry I ever thought so highly of him.
I suggest we let him (Carl) go the "way" he wants to go, and pray the Lord have mercy.
What say ye?
In HIS service;
Jim
Lacy, James, et.al...
I am also wondering if ANY "Baptist pastor" EVER spoke/wrote like Ruckman BEFORE Ruckman came along. Anybody know of one? Can you produce his writings if it is so?
Seems like we are dealing with a "Ruckman clone" here, and it is about as useless conversing with him as it would be to speak to a wall brethren.
I have surveyed the man's (Carl's) "website" and am intrigued by the Middle ages RCC similarities. Same venom. Same vitriol. Same arrogance. Same speaking "as the Lord". Same everything, excluding perhaps the burning of believers for conscience sake. They spue forth the same junk willy-nilly upon anybody who is not of "their stripe" or their "learning". Sad. Truly sad. Ol' Doc Ruckman has indeed polluted the name of Christ. I am sorry I ever thought so highly of him.
I suggest we let him (Carl) go the "way" he wants to go, and pray the Lord have mercy.
What say ye?
In HIS service;
Jim
carlaimpinge
New Member
I'm sure it is absolutey riveting.
zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Lacy </font>[/QUOTE]Ya'll boys NEVER disappoint me. I didn't expect any less from you.
Isaiah 56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
Acts 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Acts 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Acts 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Acts 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
And off they go into the sunset......
The ravenous "professing" NON-RUCKMANITE RIDERS riveted by "Ruckmanesque" language.
Lacy Evans
New Member
The bad part about it is that he might have something to say. I'm just not willing to wade through the sewers looking for nuggets.
The Baptist "brother" has a bile bellowing bazooka with which he bludgeons blood bought believers. (Alliteration is easy!)
Lacy
Eph 4:31,32 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
The Baptist "brother" has a bile bellowing bazooka with which he bludgeons blood bought believers. (Alliteration is easy!)
Lacy
Eph 4:31,32 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.