Baptist Salvation is Salvation by works

[bmerr]

I thank God that there are more Scriptures than Eph 2 for it is so misused.

Bob,

bmerr here. AMEN, sir. Bet you never thought you'd get an "Amen" from someone in the church of Christ, did you? What part of Kentucky? We might be neighbors.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

[Brother Bob]

Most of my neighbors are Church of Christ and I live in Eastern Kentucky in Pike County.

 

[Revmitchell]

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


It cannot be denied that believing and confessing are required for salvation. There is an action on our part in salvation. Believe and confess. But just because we have a personal responsibility in this does it mean we get the credit for it?


John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

The Word "Power" here is the greek word "ejxousiva" Which means the power of authority and privilege. Before God gives that to us he must be received by us. Then and only then does he give us the power,and the privilege to become the Sons of God.

He who has the power gets the credit.

Now thats just good stuff!

 

[DeeJay]

Did this guy work for his salvation

Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise
Luke 23:42-43


It seems he acnolaged Jesus as Lord and asked for salvation. That is how I was saved, call it what you will.

Since when is asking the same as working. Do you think the panhandler/begger is a hard worker. You must.

BTW, I did not accept I did not invite. I realised I can not save myself and begged the Lord Jesus to save me.

 

[saturneptune]

Why would someone come on a Baptist board to point out Baptist errors? Tom Butler is right. Those phrases are not God doing the salvation, but us. Most people dont think about or understand the difference, so in the real world, they are phrases (maybe wrong wording) to express their faith in Christ. That does not mean they actually think they work for salvation. Of course, in your heart, you know that, and are just trying to stir it up. Playing word games. And coming from a denomination that has all the trappings if not the attitude of the Roman Catholic church, the thread is quite comical.

 

[genesis12]

Strain at a gnat, swallow a camel. I don't know a single Southern Baptist who believes that:

I acceptedJesus
I made Jesus lord of my life
I decided to follow Jesus.
I askedJesus into my heart,

and I've never heard an SBC pastor preach that. I've probably been around, age-wise, longer than 90% of the folks on these boards, involved with several SBC churches, teach, preach, sing, witness, serve as a Messenger......

We SBC'ers get careless, however, in how we express salvation by grace through faith, the gift of God, by saying things like the above, and in how we explain that to our children, a sort of inexcusable shorthand ~~ we know what we mean, but, sadly, others don't.

In reality, it is that because the Holy Spirit sought me, woo'ed me, revealed Jesus to me, that......

I am accepted by God thru Jesus in the Holy Spirit.
Jesus became Lord of my life.
Jesus said, "Come, follow Me."

I was convicted of my sinful, lost estate; He told me that I needed a Savior! My faith response to Him was made possible by His loving grace, not by any effort on my part; even the faith to believe came from Him. I didn't have to repeat a sinner's prayer, or walk an aisle, for an issue that He had already settled in my heart. I just melted into his loving embrace.

And....

My heart was changed. I grew in knowledge, and wisdom, and strength. I told others what He had done. He gave me the promise of spiritual discernment. Though I may sin, my status is no longer "sinner," my status is saved, justified, made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Nothing in that is related to works for salvation. Works follow salvation, in accordance with His command, "Come, follow Me." And it is He who equips me to follow, not my degrees! There is a fountain filled with Blood, drawn from Immanuel's veins, and sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains. Who does the plunging?!!? Not I, not the preacher, not the elder, not the deacon, not the member. Hallelujah!
:Fish: :thumbs:

And.......... look before you leap........... :tongue3: :flower:

 

[Brother Bob]

That is called works by the Calvinist.

 

[Brother Bob]

You know Genesis I dont really know where we differ when reading your explanation of His saving Grace unless if its that you believe He only gave certain ones a chance to do what you just said. I believe all you said but believe He gave all men a time and chance to do just that. He is always striving at men's hearts and we can listen and follow or we can reject. Now if you will accept what I just said then we agree but if its only to a few then we do not agree. Such a fine line we do walk?

Oh, By the way, I don't know how old you are or how long you been at this but I been at it a while too.

 

[genesis12]

I can hardly wait for someone to say, "UH-OH! You melted! That's a work! You believe in salvation by works! Ahmmmm, shame on youuuuuu.........."

No, Bro Bob. I'm not a Tulip or an Arminian. He seeks all of us, on every speck of dirt on this painful earth. It is all of Him, none of me / us, in His saving Grace.

 

[Brother Bob]

Then we can walk together Brother.

 

[J. Jump]

and I've never heard an SBC pastor preach that.

Boy I wish I can say the same

 

[J. Jump]

I thank God that there are more Scriptures than Eph 2 for it is so misused.

Brother Bob how is Ephesians 2:8-9 misused?

 

[Brother Bob]

Misuse it by not quoting the whole Scripture and taking in to consideration the rest of the Bible like James, Matt, Mark, Luke and John to name a few.

 

[J. Jump]

Brother Bob you are making the same mistake that the vast majority of Christendom makes in that you are saying that James is speaking of eternal salvation, which it is not. Eternal salvation is not the picture in James or any of the other Gospel accounts.

That doesn't mean there isn't a mention of that in any of those books, but it certainly isn't the big picture, and James clearly tells us he is talking about the salvation of the soul. Eternal salvation and the salvation of the soul are two totally different things.

There is no way to misuse Ephesians 2:8-9. I'll quote it for you:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

There's nothing there to misuse. If you are a saved individual then you were saved by grace through faith. Salvation is a free gift of God and it doesn't have anything to do with your works.

How can anyone misuse that. It's the simple plan of salvation. If anyone is saved in the future guess what it's going to be by grace through faith as a gift of God and not by their works.

 

[Brother Bob]

That doesn't mean there isn't a mention of that in any of those books, but it certainly isn't the big picture, and James clearly tells us he is talking about the salvation of the soul. Eternal salvation and the salvation of the soul are two totally different things.

I am sorry but I do not believe a word of what you just said. I believe you are saved once and that includes soul, body in the resurrection and eternal life for both. I do not know where you get your belief about the soul being saved is not eternal salvation. It is Greek to me. I have searched the Bible for many years and have never come across such doctrine. I have been preaching for 34 years and have never heard such doctrine preached. Now maybe they preach it somewhere but I don't know where that is.

You don't have to quote Eph 2 to me, but when you did you didn't quote it all and that is the mistake. You didn't get the part that He was talking that the works of the Law like circumcism would not save you. You did not get the part that He was talking about the Gentiles being aliens to the commonwealth of Israel and by the gift of God, (Jesus) the middle wall of partition was broken down and gave us a right to be saved and it was a gift entirely, no works involved on man's part but Jesus did it all. You didn't mention that we are His workmanship and these works were foreordained that we should walk therein now did you?

 

[Rooselk]

... And coming from a denomination that has all the trappings if not the attitude of the Roman Catholic church, the thread is quite comical.

Say what???

 

[J. Jump]

I believe you are saved once and that includes soul, body in the resurrection and eternal life for both.

Brother Bob what you believe is of no regard. What I believe is of no regard. What Joe Blow believes is of no regard. The only thing that matters is what the Bible says. The Bible says these are two separate things.

One is based on the works of Jesus Christ alone (eternal salvation - by grace through faith apart from man's works) and the other is based on a cooperation of man and the Holy Spirit (based on man's works).

do not know where you get your belief about the soul being saved is not eternal salvation. It is Greek to me.

It's in the Bible and it was originally written in Greek But you can find it in English today thankfully

I have searched the Bible for many years and have never come across such doctrine.

James 1:21, I Peter 1:9 and Hebrews 10:39 those are just some quick references, but the doctrine can be found throughout the Gospel accounts.

There are a great many folks that have missed this doctrine in the these days because it is a message that is quickly disappearing from the church scene, much to the applaud of Satan himself, because this is the one message that directly impacts him.

You don't have to quote Eph 2 to me, but when you did you didn't quote it all and that is the mistake. You didn't get the part that He was talking that the works of the Law like circumcism would not save you. You did not get the part that He was talking about the Gentiles being aliens to the commonwealth of Israel and by the gift of God, (Jesus) the middle wall of partition was broken down and gave us a right to be saved and it was a gift entirely, no works involved on man's part but Jesus did it all. You didn't mention that we are His workmanship and these works were foreordained that we should walk therein now did you?

No I didn't quote the entire chapter Bob, would you like me to? It doesn't contradict the simple message of salvation that is found in verses 8 and 9 I'm sorry to disappoint you.

Your above quote said it again. It is a GIFT of GOD, NOT of man's WORKS. I bolded it for you. Jesus did it all. That means I don't have to do anything other than believe what He did on my behalf. Isn't that a wonderful message? I think it is. Jesus did every thing necessary to secure my eternal salvation and all I have to do is believe in the works He did on my behalf. Grace truly is amazing even after all these 1,000s of years.

I didn't mention we are His workmanship and these works were foreordained that we should walk in them because works have NOTHING to do with eternal salvation. The verses just above verse 10 tell you that. We are saved to do good works, but that doesn't mean we WILL do them. The verse says we SHOULD do them. That is what we are supposed to do, but that doesn't mean we will.

If the Holy Spirit wanted Paul to have penned that works were going to be absolutely certain then that's what He would have had Paul pen, but that's not what was penned. What was said is that we SHOULD do them not that we ARE GOING TO DO them. That's two different things. You want the verse to say something it doesn't.

 

[webdog]

I have noticed that Baptists on this board are good at saying one thing and then contradicting themselves by saying the exact opposite. They all say "saved by grace through faith" but then they say the following:

I accepted Jesus
I madeJesus lord of my life
I decided to follow Jesus.
I asked Jesus into my heart.

None of these statements is consistant with "by faith alone" for all of these statements indicate an action taken by a person. The everyday language betrays the heart of baptist and evangelical beliefs, they are no more faith alone than the Roman Catholics.

And now let the fire storm begin

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Are you serious?

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Bob what you believe is of no regard. What I believe is of no regard. What Joe Blow believes is of no regard. The only thing that matters is what the Bible says. The Bible says these are two separate things.

One is based on the works of Jesus Christ alone (eternal salvation - by grace through faith apart from man's works) and the other is based on a cooperation of man and the Holy Spirit (based on man's works).

This is foolishness for what I believe is how I live my life and how I live my life is where I will spend eternity so if you don't mind don't tell me what I believe don't matter for if it don't make no sense at all then no need to discuss it.

I am sure a great many people have missed your doctrine but a little strange that all this time has passed and all these great preachers and we have to wait until you come along to have a new revelation. You know when I first started preaching I thought I learned something knew also and later found out the older brethren were right all along so I am very careful now. I am swift to hear and slow to speak.

didn't mention we are His workmanship and these works were foreordained that we should walk in them because works have NOTHING to do with eternal salvation. The verses just above verse 10 tell you that. We are saved to do good works, but that doesn't mean we WILL do them. The verse says we SHOULD do them. That is what we are supposed to do, but that doesn't mean we will.

So you may or may not do good works after Salvation? I guess you don't believe you will know a tree by the fruit it bears. No good works then the tree must be corrupt and will cast into the fire and burned up with an unquenchable fire.

Again, Eph 2 is talking about many things and they all concern Salvation. It is talking about the Middle wall of partition, talking about the works of the Law, Circumcision and where Jesus brought Salvation to the Gentiles as a free gift.

I think you have read trying to make something out of the Scriptures that is not there. I hear preachers saying in their sermons that almost everything in the OT represented Christ. They go too far and for one lose the congregation and for two it is not so. I can just imagine you preaching to a congregation that the soul will be saved but that is not eternal Salvation. All the churches I know and not just what I belong to but all of them would show you the door and tell you not to come back.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JJump: The Bible says these are two separate things.

HP: Could the possibility exist the rats ate the book of James out of your copy? Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
If you are ever going to harmonize the Word of God, you are going to have to address the truth that not only does the Word of God say that we are saved by faith apart from works, but it also says we are saved ‘by works and not faith alone.’ Both are Scripture, not just one.

I have to believe that IN A SENSE both passages are correct and are in agreement. Our works are not meritorious, and our works have not devised the plan of salvation. Just the same, God has commanded men to repent and to exercise faith in Him, which both are, at their roots, acts of the will , and as such are ‘works’ ‘in a sense.’

One thing is for certain. Faith without works is dead, and dead faith has no power to save.