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BAPTIST SUCCESSION

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Exactly what is Baptist doctrine

KJVO vs - Non KJO

there are dozens of difference
Some are considered (by at least one party) doctrine
others may just be preference

Most, but not all believe in eternal security

Most but not all say the the gifts of tongues and healing ended with the disciple

Of course one of the biggest difference is C vs A

Separation or the degree thereof keeps many Baptists separate

I do agree there has been an unbroken line of churches throughout history -
who adhered to Bible principals. But I would not be a bit surprised that very few of them
would resemble Baptist churches of today.

closed vs open communion

How soon to baptize after salvation

how long should a mans hair be?

Expositor vs. Textual vs Topical Preaching

With well over 100 baptist denominations
(yes, I know what some say about denominations -
but keep in mind - there are two basic definitions of denomination)

I do agree there has been an unbroken line of churches throughout history -
who adhered to Bible principals. But I would not be a bit surprised that very few of them
would resemble Baptist churches of today.


Boils down to one thing- interpretation

These 8 Baptist Doctrines are what I have been trying to refer to:

(1) The church's Head and Founder is Jesus Christ
(Matthew 16:18; Colossians 1:18).



(2) Its only rule of faith and practice is the Bible
(II Timothy 3:15-17).



(3) Its members are to be only saved people
(Acts 2:41).



(4) Its government is congregational
(Acts 1:23-26 - equality).



(5) Its teaching on salvation is that it is by grace
(Ephesians 2:8-9).



(6) It has but two ordinances; Baptism and the Lord's Supper,
and these are symbolic
(Matthew 28:19-20; I Corinthians 11:24).



(7) Its commission is inclusive
(Matthew 28:16-20).



(8) It is independent
(Matthew 16:19; Matthew 22:21).
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
and I gave my opinion on those - previously.
and many non-baptist churches believe some of those things

Opps - forgot to mention one thing - some baptists beleive in
three ordinances - would be feet washing.
 

MrW

Well-Known Member
Ok. By the way, I appreciate there’s a Christian site on this tapatalk thing.

Except I don’t care for Alan’s cut and paste cookie-cutter posts. I prefer people to use their own thoughts/words from Scripture only, not Calvin’s opinions.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Ok. By the way, I appreciate there’s a Christian site on this tapatalk thing.

Except I don’t care for Alan’s cut and paste cookie-cutter posts. I prefer people to use their own thoughts/words from Scripture only, not Calvin’s opinions.

I'd be more concerned about the soul
of the one(s) who 'taught' you,
then me meeting your standards,
of reasoning with a sin-cursed mind,
with no appetite for Spiritual Truths.

Did they have a testimony of being Saved?

Did they have a testimony of being lost?

How about you?

Do you have a testimony of having been, or being, lost?
 

MrW

Well-Known Member
Who will be saved/lost was determined from the beginning and no one can change it, right? Not even God, right? So it DOES NOT MATTER, since it’s SET IN STONE.

Nothing has ever caused Christianity more harm than Calvinism. It’s divided Christians 500+ years and y’all STILL won’t drop it and just teach the Bible, John 3:16.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Who will be saved/lost was determined from the beginning and no one can change it, right? Not even God, right? So it DOES NOT MATTER, since it’s SET IN STONE.

Nothing has ever caused Christianity more harm than Calvinism. It’s divided Christians 500+ years and y’all STILL won’t drop it and just teach the Bible, John 3:16.

"Salvation" should mean something serious to a soul.

Fatalism is not taught.

All are Commanded to Repent.

The Doctrines of Grace and more are in The Bible:

THE ACTS AND WORKS OF GOD

Chapter 1: Of the Internal Acts of God, and of his
Decrees in general

Chapter 2: Of the Special Decrees of God, particularly
of Election

Chapter 3: Of the Rejection of some Angels and some Men
Chapter 4: Of the Union of the Elect to God
Chapter 5: Of Adoption as an Immanent Act
  • Of Justification as an Immanent Act
Chapter 6: Of the Everlasting Council
Chapter 7: Of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace
Chapter 8: Of the Part the Father took in the Covenant
Chapter 9: Of the Part the Son of God took in the Covenant
Chapter 10: Of Christ as the Covenant Head of the Elect
Chapter 11: Of Christ the Surety of the Covenant
Chapter 12: Of the Love of God
Chapter 13: Of Christ the Testator of the Covenant
Chapter 14: Of the Concern the Spirit has in the Covenant
Chapter 15: Of the Properties of the Covenant
Chapter 16: Of the Complacency and Delight the Divine
Persons had in Each Other From Everlasting
 
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MrW

Well-Known Member
Doesn’t matter. Third Article of Westminster Confession. It was all done at Creation, even this post. Yes, it is exactly fatalism; no free will ; salvation, damnation, both predetermined, no need to even think about it; everyone is an actor on a stage speaking the lines written for them many millennia ago.

You wasted your cut and paste if you think I’ll read one word of your propaganda. I was raised in abject Calvinism and rejected it when Christ saved me per John 1 and John 3. I trust Christ, not Calvin.
 
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JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Ok. By the way, I appreciate there’s a Christian site on this tapatalk thing.

Except I don’t care for Alan’s cut and paste cookie-cutter posts. I prefer people to use their own thoughts/words from Scripture only, not Calvin’s opinions.
Just thinking...if everbody posted to my preferences . Ah....what a wonderful world. :Biggrin
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Doesn’t matter. Third Article of Westminster Confession. It was all done at Creation, even this post. Yes, it is exactly fatalism; no free will ; salvation, damnation, both predetermined, no need to even think about it; everyone is an actor on a stage speaking the lines written for them many millennia ago.

You wasted your cut and paste if you think I’ll read one word of your propaganda. I was raised in abject Calvinism and rejected it when Christ saved me per John 1 and John 3. I trust Christ, not Calvin.

Every letter in thousands and thousands of Words, in Calvinism, give Glory to God.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Who will be saved/lost was determined from the beginning and no one can change it, right? Not even God, right? So it DOES NOT MATTER, since it’s SET IN STONE.

Nothing has ever caused Christianity more harm than Calvinism. It’s divided Christians 500+ years and y’all STILL won’t drop it and just teach the Bible, John 3:16.
REPENTANCE CONSIDERED
 

MrW

Well-Known Member
Doesn’t matter. Predetermined. No one has a choice (per Calvin). Nothing matters.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Doesn’t matter. Predetermined. No one has a choice (per Calvin). Nothing matters.

You don't get that from The Book and/ or "Calvin".
Only in your, "reasoning",
using a mind that has been affected by The Fall of Adam.
 

MrW

Well-Known Member
You don't get that from The Book and/ or "Calvin".
Only in your, "reasoning",
using a mind that has been affected by The Fall of Adam.

No, it’s your belief, supposedly. You should read what you profess to believe.

The Westminster Confession of Faith

CHAPTER 3

Of God’s Eternal Decree.

I. God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass:
a. yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,
b. nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
c.

a Eph. 1:11 ; Rom. 11:33 ; Heb. 6:17 ; Rom. 9:15 ,18.
b Jam. 1:13,17; 1 John 1:5.
c Acts 2:23; Matt. 17:12; Acts 4:27,28; John 19:11; Prov. 16:33.

II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions;
d yet hath he not decreed any thing because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.

d Acts 15:18; 1 Sam. 23:11,12; Matt. 11:21,23.
e Rom. 9:11,13,16,18.

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels
f are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.

f 1 Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:41.
g Rom. 9:22,23; Eph. 1:5,6; Prov. 16:4.

IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number is so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.

h 2 Tim. 2:19; John 13:18.

V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory,

i out of his mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto;
k and all to the praise of his glorious grace.

i Eph. 1:4,9,11; Rom. 8:30; 2 Tim. 1:9; 1 Thess. 5:9.
k Rom. 9:11,13,16; Eph. 1:4,9.
l Eph. 1:6,12.

VI. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath he, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto.m Wherefore they who are elected being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ;
n are effectually called unto faith in Christ by his Spirit working in due season; are justified, adopted, sanctified,
o and kept by his power through faith unto salvation.
p Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.

m 1 Pet. 1:2; Eph. 1:4,5; Eph. 2:10; 2 Thess. 2:13.
n 1 Thess. 5:9,10; Tit. 2:14.
o Rom. 8:30; Eph. 1:5; 2 Thess. 2:13.
p 1 Pet. 1:5.
q John 17:9; Rom. 8:28 to the end; John 6:64,65; John 10:26; John 8:47; 1 John 2:19.

VII. The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.

r Matt. 11:25,26; Rom. 9:17,18,21,22; 2 Tim. 2:19,20; Jude ver. 4; 1 Pet. 2:8.

VIII. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,
s that men attending the will of God revealed in his word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.
t So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God,
u and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation, to all that sincerely obey the Gospel.
w

s Rom. 9:20 ; Rom. 11:33 ; Deut. 29:29.
t 2 Pet. 1:10.
u Eph. 1:6; Rom. 11:33 .
w Rom. 11:5,6,20; 2 Pet. 1:10 ; Rom. 8:33 ; Luke 10:20.
 

MrW

Well-Known Member
You see? I can change nothing. No one can. That’s your belief system.

Thus, my “testimony of being saved or lost” is irrelevant. Per Calvinism, what it is, is what it is, and what it is, is what it was, before earth’s foundation was laid, and I have no say-so about it, nor do you, nor does anyone. So it doesn’t matter because we’re actors in a movie already filmed and there’s only one copy—no ad libs, no additional frames possible.
 
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Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Wherefore they who are elected being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ;
n are effectually called unto faith in Christ by his Spirit working in due season; are justified, adopted, sanctified,
o and kept by his power through faith unto salvation.
p Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.

This is How God Saves souls, through Preaching The Word, in The EFFECTUAL CALL. "You Must Be Born Again" is something that TAKES PLACE, in Time.

There has to be a Time you have seen yourself lost and guilty, by God's Word, and Been Granted, "REPENTANCE toward God and FAITH in Jesus Christ's WORK of ETERNAL SALVATION.

VII. The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.

for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice,

BECAUSE OF THEIR SIN AGAINST HIS TRICE-HOLY OMNIPOTENCE..

ordain them to dishonour and wrath for their sin

their sin

that men attending the will of God revealed in his word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.

I John 5: "12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

13 I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

It is, or should be, to the individual,
as to whether they are Saved and have a Home in Heaven, or not.

Are you going to Heaven, or not? #1

Both are True.

God's SOVEREIGNTY and Human RESPONSIBILITY.

By human responsibility
we mean man's accountability to God for all of his actions.


The teaching of man's accountability is so general in the Bible that no Scripture citations are needed.

Anyone that is at all acquainted with the Bible should be able with no difficulty to find plenty of proof texts on this subject.

I. HUMAN RESPONSIBILITY AND THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD

1. THE MEANING OF GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY.

The absolute sovereignty of God means just what Paul affirms in Eph. 1:11, where he speaks of God as one that

"worketh all things after the counsel of His will."

This teaches just what the Philadelphia Confession of Faith teaches when it says:

"God hath decreed in Himself from all eternity,
by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will,
freely and unchangeably, all things whatsoever comes to pass."


Other passages teaching the absolute sovereignty of God are as follows:

"Who knoweth not in all these, that the hand of Jehovah hath wrought this, in whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind" (Job 12:9,10).

"Jehovah hath established his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all" (Psa. 103:19).

"Whatsoever Jehovah pleased, that hath he done, in heaven and in earth, in the seas and all deeps" (Psa. 135:6).

"Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? Out of the mouth of the Most High cometh there not evil and good?" (Lam. 3:37,38).

"I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things" (Isa. 45:7).

"I am God, and there is none like me; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done; saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure" (Isa. 46:10).

"All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" (Dan. 4:35).

"At that season Jesus answered and said, I thank thee 0 Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes" (Matt. 11:25).

"Jesus answered him, Thou couldest have no power against me, except it were given thee from above" (John 19:11).

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth,
but of God that hath mercy.

For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh,
For this very purpose did I raise thee up,
that I might show in thee my power,
and that my name might be published abroad in all the earth.

So then he hath mercy on whom he will,
and whom he will he hardeneth" (Rom. 9:15- 18).

See also Acts 2:2,3 and 4:27,28.
 

MrW

Well-Known Member
“There has to be…” nothing. Not if I am elect.

Make up your mind whether you are a Calvinist or not.
 
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