Baptist View of Drinking and Smoking

[righteousdude2]

I am researching modern day values of the church for my new book. I'd love you feedback, and promise not to use any names, or direct quotes. I will only be reviewing the comments and deduce a consensus in regard to the topic.

I am seeing a slow turn in the church [all denominations] in regard to many issues. So to begin with, I'd love to know what members of the BB think about their witness and faith when it comes to social drinking and social smoking [cigarettes, cigars, and pipes]. To be honest with you all, when I worked as a Professional Boy Scout [District Executive] I smoked a pipe. I did it because most of the other executives did the same, and at that time of my life, I was highly impressionable and wanted to fit in; so smoking a pipe was a fashionable thing to do. Lucky for me, the faze lasted less than a year.

As for drinking, in my mid to late twenties, I did have a glass of White Zinfandel with my prime rib and steak dinners. Again, this bad habit was dropped before I turned 30 years old. I no longer practice this "vice" either.

I'd love to know just where you folks stand in regard to these two vices and their place within the life of a believer. If you have versus that support or condemn smoking and social [or heavy drinking] drinking, please feel free to share.

I'm not looking for anyone to get into an argument with another member, I am just compiling data to use in my new book, and your feedback will be very helpful. Remember: there are no right or wrong answers, and I don't want this post to turn into a major debate. This is nothing more than a SURVEY!

I have several other areas to discuss over the next month, or so, so thanks for you input.

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

 

[Dr. L.T. Ketchum]

Brother Paul,

I think many of our young fundamentalist are reinvestigating these issues.

As a dispensationalist, I do not think these issues can be understood apart from the Priesthood of the believer and our OT types in the Levitical Priesthood. The consecration and sanctification of the OT type is the foundational truths for separation from worldliness (sanctification) and separation unto God (consecration). Within the [FONT=&quot]Mosaic Covenant, these issues were primarally external. Within the New Covenant in Christ's Blood, these elements carry with them both external and internal responsibilities.

I have wriiten a short tract on the subject. You can find it in PDF at:
http://www.disciplemakerministries.org/PDF Files/Should Christians Drink Alcohol[1].pdf[/FONT]

 

[Dale-c]

The Bible is silent on smoking so it is up to Christian liberty and wisdom as to whether to do it or not.
I don't smoke but I do not condemn those that do.
Here are a couple of verses to consider:

23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: 33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

So, I think it is possible, as Spurgeon would do, to smoke a cigar or pipe to the glory of God.
However, there may be times were it would be wiser not to exercise a certain liberty do to the circumstances.


As far as drinking, that issue has been hashed out many times on here before.
I believe that the Bible actually states that the proper use of wine is a blessing.
It also teaches that the abuse of wine is a sin and has many problems.

I don't have time to list everything here but I have done quite a bit of study on this one.
I do occasionally drink wine and I find there are health benefits from doing so.
I studied at length though because that is not how I was raised and I wanted to make sure there was no sin in my actions.

Later if I have time I can add to what I have written here.
ALso, I can add more scripture for why I believe it is true.

 

[webdog]

The Bible is silent on smoking so it is up to Christian liberty and wisdom as to whether to do it or not.
I don't smoke but I do not condemn those that do.
Here are a couple of verses to consider:


So, I think it is possible, as Spurgeon would do, to smoke a cigar or pipe to the glory of God.
However, there may be times were it would be wiser not to exercise a certain liberty do to the circumstances.


As far as drinking, that issue has been hashed out many times on here before.
I believe that the Bible actually states that the proper use of wine is a blessing.
It also teaches that the abuse of wine is a sin and has many problems.

I don't have time to list everything here but I have done quite a bit of study on this one.
I do occasionally drink wine and I find there are health benefits from doing so.
I studied at length though because that is not how I was raised and I wanted to make sure there was no sin in my actions.

Later if I have time I can add to what I have written here.
ALso, I can add more scripture for why I believe it is true.

In agreement with Dale. Neither is forbidden (wine in the Bible is also referred to as a blessing, btw, in the proper instances). While smoking is proven not healthy, so is trans fat's...and I don't see people condmening potato chips as sinful.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The Bible is silent on smoking so it is up to Christian liberty and wisdom as to whether to do it or not.

Silent on smoking?

Genesis 24:64 And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel.:laugh::wavey:


The Word of God tells us we are to be faithful stewards. I believe that is not just with the money we have, but with our bodies as well.

Smoking kills. People get lung cancer from smoking and also from second hand smoke. I believe the body is God's possession and to inhale that tar and nicotine that has been proven to cause cancer... is not being a faithful steward.

As to drinking, most on this board know my stance. It is biblical. Fermented drink bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.

Will a man tempt God?

 

[webdog]

Smoking kills. People get lung cancer from smoking and also from second hand smoke. I believe the body is God's possession and to inhale that tar and nicotine that has been proven to cause cancer... is not being a faithful steward.

So do greasy, fatty foods. Are cheese burgers and pizza sin?

Sugary foods cause tooth decay and diabetes. Are desserts sin?

The sun causes skin cancer. Is sun exposure sin?

Just where do you draw the line?

 

[righteousdude2]

Gotta Love Those Kettle Chips

In agreement with Dale. Neither is forbidden (wine in the Bible is also referred to as a blessing, btw, in the proper instances). While smoking is proven not healthy, so is trans fat's...and I don't see people condmening potato chips as sinful.

Good point on trans fat Webdog. There are probably a great many things we do that the Bible is silent on, and it is left up to our heart of hearts. Still, those Kettle Chips are good and addicting to a person that loves something "crunchy" to munch on while watching TV. Glad God was silent on chips and dip, pie, ice cream and cake, prime rib and baked potato with sour cream and chives, chocolate chip cookies and milk.

Well, I've made myself hungry, and I'm heading for the kitchen to see what there is to pray over and sanctify so I can eat it without sinning :laugh: .


Love You Brother,

Pastor Paul :type:

 

[webdog]

Well, I've made myself hungry, and I'm heading for the kitchen to see what there is to pray over and sanctify so I can eat it without sinning :laugh: .

Me too...lunch time. See you all in an hour

 

[JerryL]

I am researching modern day values of the church for my new book. I'd love you feedback, and promise not to use any names, or direct quotes. I will only be reviewing the comments and deduce a consensus in regard to the topic.

I am seeing a slow turn in the church [all denominations] in regard to many issues. So to begin with, I'd love to know what members of the BB think about their witness and faith when it comes to social drinking and social smoking [cigarettes, cigars, and pipes]. To be honest with you all, when I worked as a Professional Boy Scout [District Executive] I smoked a pipe. I did it because most of the other executives did the same, and at that time of my life, I was highly impressionable and wanted to fit in; so smoking a pipe was a fashionable thing to do. Lucky for me, the faze lasted less than a year.

As for drinking, in my mid to late twenties, I did have a glass of White Zinfandel with my prime rib and steak dinners. Again, this bad habit was dropped before I turned 30 years old. I no longer practice this "vice" either.

I'd love to know just where you folks stand in regard to these two vices and their place within the life of a believer. If you have versus that support or condemn smoking and social [or heavy drinking] drinking, please feel free to share.

I'm not looking for anyone to get into an argument with another member, I am just compiling data to use in my new book, and your feedback will be very helpful. Remember: there are no right or wrong answers, and I don't want this post to turn into a major debate. This is nothing more than a SURVEY!

I have several other areas to discuss over the next month, or so, so thanks for you input.

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

Whether it is permissible per the Bible or not, you have your mind made up on the drinking issue. You are calling it a vice. You and Dale-C might be surprised to know that the same Spurgeon that Dale spoke of had, in his salary, 250 gallons of wine per year. If you already have your mind made up enough to call wine drinking a vice, why even ask the question. I drink wine occasionally and it is no vice. There have been many,many threads on the BB as to the wine drinking, it is easy to search each members opinion.

 

[Dale-c]

As to drinking, most on this board know my stance. It is biblical. Fermented drink bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.

Could you please show how this is Biblical?
Surely you have a verse or passage that proves your point?
How to you explain the myriad of verses that deal with wine positively?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

We have gone through Scripture in many threads concerning alcohol in the past. Your view of the Scripture concerning alcohol is not the same as my view. You refuse to even consider that I am right, so why argue with you?

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man...

 

[Brother Bob]

Here we go again................

 

[rstrats]

righteousdude2,

re: "Well, I've made myself hungry, and I'm heading for the kitchen to see what there is to pray over and sanctify so I can eat it without sinning."


Just be sure to avoid the animals that the supreme being has identified as being unfit to eat.

 

[Dale-c]

We have gone through Scripture in many threads concerning alcohol in the past. Your view of the Scripture concerning alcohol is not the same as my view. You refuse to even consider that I am right, so why argue with you?

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man...

Fair enough. We did hash this over before as I recall, though I was thinking that it was mostly others that were arguing, not you.

I would like to note that I have considered your position. I used to hold your position. But the scriptures simply say otherwise.

If you would please, do post your scriptural reasons for saying the following:

Fermented drink bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.

I do not doubt that something similar to this is in the Bible but I would like to see it to get the context.

Thanks,
Dale

 

[Gold Dragon]

Drunkeness and gluttony are sins explicitly stated in the bible so too much alcohol and kettle chips are both sins.

Smoking is damaging to the body God gave us, so while lighting up a cig may not be a sin, too much of the stuff is poor stewardship.

Wine is a blessing explicitly stated in the bible many times.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Whether it is permissible per the Bible or not, you have your mind made up on the drinking issue. You are calling it a vice.

I've heard non-Christians who smoke and drink call smoking and drinking "vices" with the meaning of "bad habit". It does come from a cultural attitude in the past where those activities were considered sinful along with things like gambling, movies and dancing. But I don't think use of the term itself is indicative of a theological position on whether those activities are sinful or not.

 

[Dale-c]

Drunkeness and gluttony are sins explicitly stated in the bible so too much alcohol and kettle chips are both sins.

Smoking is damaging to the body God gave us, so while lighting up a cig may not be a sin, too much of the stuff is poor stewardship.

Wine is a blessing explicitly stated in the bible many times.

Well summed up in just 3 lines

 

[preachinjesus]

While I don't partake in either (b/c of my called vocation), I don't have a problem with anyone who does.

Of course too much of something is often problematic, but in order to get to dogmatic Scriptural position against these we have to do too many hermeneutical stretches and show areas of personal hypocrisy.

I'm not sure why Baptists in particular are so hardline against moderate, casual drinking or the occassional cigar. It's not that big of an issue nor are these "slippery-slope" issues.

Sometimes you just need a stiff drink.

 

[Armchair Scholar]

I am researching modern day values of the church for my new book. I'd love you feedback, and promise not to use any names, or direct quotes. I will only be reviewing the comments and deduce a consensus in regard to the topic.

I am seeing a slow turn in the church [all denominations] in regard to many issues. So to begin with, I'd love to know what members of the BB think about their witness and faith when it comes to social drinking and social smoking [cigarettes, cigars, and pipes]. To be honest with you all, when I worked as a Professional Boy Scout [District Executive] I smoked a pipe. I did it because most of the other executives did the same, and at that time of my life, I was highly impressionable and wanted to fit in; so smoking a pipe was a fashionable thing to do. Lucky for me, the faze lasted less than a year.

As for drinking, in my mid to late twenties, I did have a glass of White Zinfandel with my prime rib and steak dinners. Again, this bad habit was dropped before I turned 30 years old. I no longer practice this "vice" either.

I'd love to know just where you folks stand in regard to these two vices and their place within the life of a believer. If you have versus that support or condemn smoking and social [or heavy drinking] drinking, please feel free to share.

I'm not looking for anyone to get into an argument with another member, I am just compiling data to use in my new book, and your feedback will be very helpful. Remember: there are no right or wrong answers, and I don't want this post to turn into a major debate. This is nothing more than a SURVEY!

I have several other areas to discuss over the next month, or so, so thanks for you input.

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

I agree that smoking is not mentioned specifically in Scripture and could possibly go under the umbrella of Christian liberty, but there are some verses used that would make a believer want to rethink the issue. The Scripture that tells us that our bodies are the temple of the Lord and that they are not our own. The other one is that God gave us the ability to think logically and understand things, meaning we can understand today that smoking leads to an increase risk of getting cancer--and not just for the one who smokes but for those in the smoker's immediate environment. My SBC pastor, however, is against all smoking, preaches about it that way, and states that anyone who continues smoking while professing Christ as Savior is probably "not saved." I don't agree with him, however, since Scripture does not lay it out that way. However, Scripture does tell us that whatever we do that is against our conscience is sin. If our conscience tells us that we should not smoke then we shouldn't and if we continue to then we are sinning. There are different angles on this subject.

As for drinking, I have drank alcohol about 5 times in my entire life (mostly sips) and still can't stand the way the stuff tastes--not even wine. I have heard many pastors, including my own, say that "drinking alcohol is a sin." All I am able to find in Scripture is "do not be (get) drunk." My former IFB pastor believed that most win mentioned in Scripture was grape juice, despite the fact that they had no refrigeration back then, making natural fermentation a normal thing. Rome had a practice of boiling/heating the alcohol out of some wines.

Paul told Timothy to take a little bit of wine for his stomach ailment, which was probably an ulcer. Modern medicine has discovered that a great deal of common stomach ulcers are caused by a certain bacteria. Alcohol helps kill certain bacteria and back then it is very possible that wine was known to ease the pain of a stomach ulcer. I doubt Paul was telling Timothy to drink grape juice. Also, wine 2000 years ago was not necessarily as strong as the wine today. Extra grain alcohol is added to naturally fermented grapes to make a higher proof content. A lot of table wines have a higher proof than some beers. Wine has been found to aid in digestion. I think as people we tend to overreact to certain things, meaning well. If God has said not to be drunk, we should not be drunk. I can't find where He has said to "not drink wine."

I think a lot of people are put into oppression through wrong interpretation of certain things. At the same time, a Christian drinking alcohol publicly, around friends and others who are not saved, can possibly affect their testimony because the lost perceive the Christian to be no different than they are. Unbelievers lack the understanding that Christians are given. But drinking is not the only thing. A Christian using foul language around unbelievers can affect their testimony just as much.

It comes down to thinking about what is practical and what is not practical. Paul said that all things were lawful for him but that not all were practical.

Best wishes on your book.

 

[youngmom4]

Silent on smoking?

Genesis 24:64 And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel.:laugh::wavey:

My pastor told me this joke over the summer, before he was my pastor and knowing that I was a smoker (long story). I rolled...thought it was absolutely hilarious. :laugh: Part of the reason hubby and I changed churches had to do with his realistic, humorous approach to things like this. It was nice to see a pastor who did not condemn me for smoking just because I am a believer!